FRS AT/MT for first car post college
 

Hi guys,

Been lurking here for a few weeks. Just snagged my master's diploma in Mechanical Engineering and relocating to the south san francisco bay area.

I'm looking to purchase a new car in the sub $28 K region that will be fun to drive, last a while, be easy on the maintenance costs, and most important look good doing it. I have been considering the Scion FRS, used 2006/2007 350Z, Jetta GLI among others.

To be honest, I'm pretty much fixated on the Scion. I love the looks of this car, the concept, the rave reviews and hopefully reliability. The only problem is the limited availability, which i can deal with through a short term rental while i wait.



So the real question is, AT or MT? I have never driven an MT, however I can see the merits that make it a really good choice and will make this an even more fun car to drive. I am concerned about the learning curve though. I could deal with paddle shifters but working the clutch scares me. Don't want to ruin a brand new car and I only have access to a few lessons on friends manuals.

Father says its sacrilege to get something like this in AT and will sacrifice ability to resale. Thoughts?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6485

Read moto's fantastic write up. Test drive it, and uh well... do what you want? lol

I had the same worries but I just started learning manual and within just a couple hours I was going fairly smoothly around town. Just have someone coach you a little bit. A few weeks of practice will lead to years of fun.

I did take the time to read the entirety of Moto's writeup and a few other posts.


I guess where I'm stuck is knowing what kind of issues i can expect getting a brand new manual car with limited experience beforehand. Assuming there will be some repairs to the clutch and tranny due to my inexperience?

Is it advisable to purchase a manual when i will need to drive it daily as soon as its off the lot?

Grats on your masters degree!

By the way, I think it is sacrilege for a Masters in Mechanical Engineering not knowing how to drive manual. So you must pick MT, and L2MT. k? Good luck, and may the force be with you sir!

I graduated college last summer, and I am getting the MT FRS *hopefully* this weekend. Pre-approved for loans, have downpayment ready, etc. Just a matter of it being delivered.

I also don't know how to drive MT. I only drove my dad's MT pickup truck for a couple hours once; it isn't too hard, but I will probably stall a couple times when im getting used to the FRS.

I think I have been convinced. Asphalt MT. Might have to test drive the auto version though!

I would totally not let the fact that you've not driven it before hinder you. I've had friends buy brand new cars without having ANY idea of how to drive stick (they just figured it out on their own). I personally drove from NJ to VA to get a rare RWD car with less than an hour of combined MT seat time and got it back home without issue.

If you go in with a rudimentary textbook knowledge of what you should be doing, you're not going to be doing anything significantly awful to the car that would endanger the longevity of your drivetrain or clutch. Even people who have driven MT for years take some getting used to driving a new vehicle. This is a great vehicle to learn on, as the shifter lacks the vagueness that plagues a lot of other cars.

The only negative I could see is if you're worried about looking bad at the dealership. I'd recommend trying to get some seat time in another MT car ahead of time, or possibly bringing along someone who drives MT to get it back to your place. I'd imagine even the most judgemental salesmen would change their attitude toward you if you phrased it something like "this is the car that made me want to learn stick!" :thumbup:

Thanks for the advice. Think I let myself overthink this call, true engineering style.

Put myself on the waitlist for a MT Asphalt or Hot Lava FRS. In the meantime, going to test drive a 350Z among others this weekend.

AT because of the step hills & stop and go traffic here in the Bay Area. I got a MT because I mostly use public transportation (BART) & walking.

On another note,
I hope you have no college debt because if you live in South SF you're gonna be paying a pretty penny for cost of living. It ain't cheap to live here even with your Masters (Congrats, btw).

You will love it, also :thumbup: on the masters

The FRS is my gift to myself for getting a masters in ME too. My current car is a manual (POS Saturn I got for free a year ago), but do what I did the first time I drove it: tell yourself you are a MASTER of engineering, you know exactly how the transmission works, and just do it. No lessons required.

Btw, what school?

re
 

I am getting out from undergrad in december. First gift im gonna buy myself is a BRZ !

deff go with the manual. take a Saturday and get away from the city, take the road less traveled and just practice driving. practice starting from a stop.going up, going down. maybe double clutching or single clutch rev matching if you pick things up fast.(there are youtube videos that can explain these pretty well, not too hard to learn, but they take practice to perfect). hill starts if you can do it safely (i.e. maybe an inclined parking lot of sorts). just all the basics. when i learned how to drive stick my father took me INTO the city thinking the added pressure of 1st time hill starts combined with traffic would help me learn faster. it did not. however, it taught me how to peel out (in a kia spectra =p) so yeah. maybe even drive it around the lot a little at the dealer if youre really not comfortable taking it on public roads right away. you might be a little nervous now, but later on down the road when youre rev matching on downshifts or learning how to heel and toe before a tight turn on a twisty road youll be glad you went with the stick. especially in a car as pure as this. its part of the experience. its always good to learn something new.

save the manuals!

p.s. i have nothing against autos. my current car is an auto, even though i wish it was stick. if you can get a good price on an auto and dont want to wait then by all accounts go for it!

@dietz . Berkeley for the masters.

Worried about the hills and traffic in the bay, but I feel like to get the full potential of a car like the FRS the manual is the way to go.
@S2kphile Bay area isn't cheap at all, unfortunately. And I do have college debt. Luckily I locked down a steady job the chip away at those payments.

I do not believe that you will have too hard of a time learning to drive a MT. My first car was a manual. I bought it without knowing at all how to drive manual. The first couple of hours were somewhat shaky, but you get the hang of it fast.

Nice! Got mine from GA Tech.

A good place to practice hill starts is in a parking garage. I did that on my motorcycle when I was learning and it helped a lot.

So big dilemma today.

Saw a 2005 MazdaSpeed Miata w/ 20K miles on it at a dealer today. Thing was mint and a blast. Do I take the fair price they were offering it for at $17K or hold out for the Scion FRS.

Test drove a Mazda Miata and Honda S2K to get a feel for the type of car this will be, LOVE IT.

With the rain you get in the Bay area I'd pass on the Miata. Convertibles leak.

If this is your daily driver, you want a hard top. Hold out for the FR-S.

yeahh... It was a nice looking car and definitely a special find. Felt a little feminine and outdated though. Hoping I can look at the FRS soon.

Real man drive stick, although if your married and have a lovely wife, an AT is an accepted excuse.....

Shame on you if you don't teach your life partner manual transmission.

My friend bought an auto because of his wife, I had a good laugh with him about it when they got divorced a year later.

Go Bears and Go Manual... That is all :thumbsup:

oh nooooooooo! now that car will hunt him forever..... :cry:

If I were shopping Miatas, I'd buy the cheaper, newer 3rd gen. Yeah, it is a bit heavier and down on power compared to the MS Miata, but you can find loads of them on the cheap ($12k~$13k pretty easily). I ultimately didn't buy a Miata because I didn't want to deal with the convertible top.

Manual on an FRS is as easy as it can get!
One of the best cars to learn on... In fact ANY manual car sold these days are EASY to learn and are very durable for novice use.
And because the FRS is light-weight, and 2WD on relatively mild grip tires, any misuse will just translate to slight slip of the rear tires and even that is regulated by the VSC and TRC on the FRS so its safe and not very abusive.


You should have lived in my days, when we learned stick on a Italian cars of the 70's or other crazy setups where shift levers were not always H pattern or out of normal sequence, and some gears were not even synchronized, all while the engine coughed and choked if throttles were not at happy ranges of torque-band. Those days are gone! Everything is EASY today. :D

Thanks for the opinions.

I've been convinced to go with the Manual for now. Decided not to go with the Miata, just didn't love the 05' version and the styling isn't the greatest.

Going to test drive a few more cars tomorrow, make some calls and see if I can't get my eyes on an FRS. Waitlist and no word yet...

Had my first MT lesson on an old Toyota Corolla tonight...

Almost having buyers remorse before I even get in the MT FRS. Upshifting and street driving don't seem too terrible, but the thought off traffic, parallel parking and everything makes me wonder if AT with paddle shifters isn't a terrible option.

After having read Moto's thread, it still leaves me on the fence. I really only want the MT to learn manual, and have that acceleration and spirited driving on open roads. I will not be on the track or drifting with this car.

Perhaps I'll update my waitlist order to either an MT or AT in Asphalt and let the Scion gods decide.

One day out in an mt car isn't representative of what your ability will be after several weeks with one. But dude, buy what you want, and if you're going to have more fun with sport mode and paddle shifters and easier control of the vehicle, then go with the auto. I'd recommend spending some more time in that mt corolla though.

I think that's what I need to do. Just because day 1 was tough doesn't mean I should throw in the towel.

As a side note, the corolla doesn't have an RPM tack. Is that something commonplace among many cars or just older models?

iirc old civic was that way.

When you're learning MT, it's good to have RPM gauge. Most ppl say "feel the engine"... yeah, when you're learning MT, you don't have time to "feel the engine", too busy figuring out when to release, when clutch gripping and where's the rpm and other stuff.

I have driven both AT & MT (Moto-san was next to me to prove me on this statement). If you feel that you need to feel that having MT will give you full experience of this car, that's a total BS. That's an each and their own opinion. If anyone say "having AT makes a lesser of a men" will get slap across the face.

I will not tell you to buy MT/AT. BUT I'll tell you to try both AT & MT. Figure out your daily driving route and see where is pro & con of both AT & MT. Til FR-S comes, keep practicing MT w old Corolla, so if you decide to go w MT, you have no problem driving that sweet car.

btw, here's my 2 cents. If I go to a local SCION dealer and want to buy MT, but they only have AT, I'll take it without no problem. Both MT & AT on this car is awesome!

I bought my 2008 Si brand new and had no idea how to drive stick. A friend tried to teach me on his older Miata but I was pretty bad.. I almost felt sorry for him losing his patience with me.

Needless to say, 4 years later I've gotten pretty damn good at it. You learn how to take off without burning up the clutch (near-idle instead of like with 2K+ rpm), the graceful up-hill launch, rev-matching downshifts, and how fast you are going based on just the feel of the car and what gear you are in.

However, the first 3 months were somewhat frustrating. The stall-outs, the bad launches, the up-hill fails, and the few bad shifts with the transmission not agreeing with you. It happens, even to the best rarely, but you just need experience and practice.

I'm so glad I did it and I would recommend it. Even if you later decide to go AT instead of MT on your next car, it's a great skill to have. You should never feel like you can't get the car you want because you can't drive manual (the Si only comes in stick, the FR-S has either). The guys over at the Standard Shift forum offer a ton of information, lots of good answers and techniques.

I appreciate the votes of confidence (and learning stories). Going to stick it out a while longer and test both models while I decide.

Rented a crappy car in the meantime to avoid rushing the buying process.

Don't back out now man! Driving in the city with a manual is not that hard. I did it for 3 years in NYC. And parallel parking much easier in a manual than an automatic. You don't have to wait for the damn transmission to switch from D to R and back again. You shift yourself and it's considerably quicker.

One day with that car and you'll have the manual figured out. And looking down the road the resale of the manual will be higher than that of the automatic.

Well you still have to wait for the car to stop completely before engaging reverse, unless you like grinding gears that is. A lot of people shift D-R, R-D at low speeds, not necessarily when stationary. (I always stop completely when driving a slush box, but I've observed others not doing so.) It's not necessarily much quicker parallel parking with a manual.

I commute in Washington DC which probably has the worst traffic in the US and just the thought of driving an auto puts me to sleep. I would practice for at least a week before you benchmark your self. I 100% guarantee once you learn there will be no regrets. Nothing is more fun then double clutching down 2 gears and going VROOM!

If you're on a hill you can usually just parallel using 1st or reverse (depending on the direction of the hill) :thumbup: And shifting back and forth yourself is faster than doing it with an auto, since 75% of my friends with autos don't seen to be patient enough to wait and hit the gas before the transmission is back in R (or D) and they get that "clunk!". And then later wonder why their transmission crapped out on them at 120k.:clap:

I'll agree that it's not necessarily much quicker, but it "can" be. :D

Is it wrong, or a bad idea to obtain my FR-S as my first car, when i turn 18?

No, i'm not some spoiled rich kid. I've been waiting to drive since i came to this country (9 years old) and my father knows this, which is why he wishes to get it for me (it'll be a shared car for some time until i leave to college). As of now, i'm not able to receive a licence until i'm 18. Thoughts?

i jst turned 20 6 months ago.
i saved up a crapload of money and im buying this as my first car in full cash.

if you got the money, go for it.

Nothing wrong with that, though I'm sure many of your peers will be jealous! Just remember to drive it properly (especially if you get the MT) and take care of it the same.

Also, know your limits so you don't end up wadding the car up around a tree. I don't mean that condescendingly, I've had my fair share of 'oh, I probably shouldn't have done that' moments when it comes to spirited driving and whatnot. Just a word of warning for your own safety and not to destroy that poor car. :D