Sheared/Siezed ARP stud (after having 3 stock studs strip)
 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...606_115647.jpg

I'm getting tired of this...
:barf:
I had ARP studs installed a couple months ago because I had 3 stripped stock studs, but today I went to take off my front wheels to swap out the camber bolts and one stud was siezed on, would not rotated...

So it was either keep trying to rotate it off or drill it off. Not wanting to possibly ruin my new wheels I just kept roating it knowing the Muteki lug and ARP stud were going to be in bad shape no matter what... popped right off.

Now I need a new stud and will have to use a mismatching lug for awhile, but the worst thing is I'm not made of money and this shit keeps happening and im getting pissed...

I've been doing my own wheels for almost 15 years now and never had issues until this car, not one stripped stud ever. So either I'm doing something horribly wrong or something else is going on...

Advice?

what are you torquing your wheels to? any anti-seize on the threads? i always torque to 80ft lbs on this car and my gti. i have never had a stud break (gti was converted to studs). also a slight coating of anti-seize on the treads maybe once a year.

what are you torquing your wheels to? 1 snapped stud could be a defect, 2 is pushing while possible i would bet user error. but 4?

The stock studs are garbage but how did you manage to strip them? I've had my wheels on and off this car probably 20 times without issue (just put my ARP studs on last night). The only time I ever stripped a stud in my life was when I tried to run a lug on my WRX with an impact before starting it by hand.

The broken stud I would guess has to be because it was over torqued. Sometimes they might start to stick but after just a couple months you shouldn't have that problem. The lugs aren't aluminum, are they?

If you aren't already, start torquing them to 80ft lbs with a quality torque wrench. Not Harbor Freight.

No power tools, hand tighten then torque wrench to 80ftlbs (craftsman)

I've never used anti-seize, never needed it but It looks like its time to start.

The stock lugs were mostly to blame for the stock studs getting stripped. These Muteki lugs might be the cause of the sieze on the ARP studs due to being open ended but IDK

Never stripped a stud on my Impreza nor had anything seize up, and that was a '95.

GOOD NEWS: There is enough thread left on the stud to get a lug on there with plenty of threads... means I don't have to immediately deal with this.

The stock studs really are junk it sounds like. I think in this case you might have just had bad luck with that one stud. I've never used antiseize either but I have been using those same open ended Muteki lugs for a year. No issues with binding or anything and in fact they're the best lugs I've used.

So your lugs are "pass-through" type? If they are "closed" I can see why your stripping/breaking. But if it's a pass through lug, you shouldn't be.

Are you lubing the threads? if so, you are breaking them by applying more force than necessary. Your torque wrench wont stop at 80 ft/lbs if you lubed your threads.

Why do you guys recommend 80ft-lb? The manual states 89ft-lb for lug nits.

Haha, I'm just basing this on the value given earlier in the thread.

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Oh, ok. I wasn't sure if that was the recommended amount of torque for the muteki's specifically.

I went out and bought some anti-sieze and applied to to the lugs, found another rear lug/stud that was starting to seize/strip so I stopped trying to take it off and just retorqued it for later...

Ugggg

Ordered more ARP studs too...

New torque wrench...


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It may be worth your time to bring this up with ARP.

Don't torque your lug nuts to 89 ft-lbs if you're using anti-seize on the threads. That's how you break studs.

Are you crossthreading?

Squeeze one out before putting the lug nuts on, i know for some guys it's the most irrigating thing on earth.

Could it be the way you're putting the wheel on? The hole for the studs on the wheels can rub up against and cause damage to threads.

That's another good point, what type of torque wrench do you have? Mechanical type? Whens the last time it was recalibrate.

It was the lack of anti-seize. But if it happens again, its the lugs.

Torque wrench is fine, no damaged threads, no cross threading (hand tightening first as I mentioned), not over or under torqued.

Mcguard lug nuts. Closed ones that seat with a spinning ball bearing seat.

If you put anti-seize on the threads and torqued the nuts to 89 ft-lbs, you're over torqued.

Been in the auto industry for 30yrs, never herd of anti seize on studs...


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You are absolutely correct.
If a anti-seize compound is applied, the torque value has to be reduced according to the compounds friction coefficient.

I use Molykote G-rapid plus on my wheel studs. We use this stuff offshore on studs all the time.

80 with the anti-seize.

That's still higher than I'd be comfortable with.

Well I don't want the lugs to fall off, and its what a couple of actual RL mechanics not in this thread and have experience with ARP studs recommended, so ya...

My real life experience with nuclear submarines tells me you're still doing it wrong. So, there's that...

Yeah, but how many times have you had to change the tires on your nuclear submarine??

Uh-huh, that's what I thought...

Its made by Lotus

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2..._submarine.jpg

Those lugs come with a warning no more than 85 ft/lbs or you will damage them


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WAIT! WHAT???

You managed to break off the stud, using the lug nut, but had enough of the bolt left to still put the nut back on?

That means the bolt broke even though the nut was not seated in the wheel. If the nut was fully seated on the wheel the stud would have broken below the nut with it fully seated.

The only way I see that happening (if I am understanding this) is that you cross threaded the bolt and then overtorqued it.

OR you are changing between different sets of wheels and one set is thicker in the bolt pattern area than the other.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=30
@bpracer torqued to 65 ftlbs. Perhaps @Dave-ROR could chime in on what he torques his to?

This. Your torque wrench is probably out of cal. They really need to be recal'd anytime you drop it or after 2 years. That's what all our air force wrenches (snap on click style) were scheduled for and some would be pretty far off. An easy way to check is to have a friend with a newer torque wrench torque a lugnut down then put your wrench on it. If it doesn't click at the same spot well...there's your answer.

I've never used anti-seize on lugnuts. A little grease maybe.

Your torque wrench is off or something.


I've *never* broken an ARP stud, even on the race car pulling in after 1.5 hours, yanking the lugs off with a impact, replacing wheels/tires, and impacting them back on and then checking torque to 95ft/lbs. All while they are hundreds of degrees in temp.


I've had them on the BRZ for awhile also with a lot of wheel swaps and no issues at all. I torque the BRZ to 90ft/lbs and I never use anti-seize.

Unless you live in the snow belt I don't see any reason to use anti-seize. Hacing to remember new torque values based on the thread lubricant used is annoying.

^^ by up to 25% if using Moly 50... which you shouldn't use on lugs.

Then it proves that they have done little research. Not all anti-seize is the same. You have to reduce the torque spec based on the lubricant used.

Been using it on every vehicle I have owned for 15+ years now including my race car. We used it when I worked at Walmart Tire Lube Express as well.

Has anyone asked the OP what wheels he is actually using? Perhaps this is a wheel/hub issue. I would also like to know how you snapped that stud/nut off at that location yet you still have plenty of thread engagement with a new nut.

I might not be a RL car mechanic, but I do make a living of wrenching stuff for the oil industry and I am certified to use both manual and hydraulic torque tools.
You must be doing something wrong to shear those ARP straight off.
They might all be damaged (stretched) if you have over tightened them past the tensile strength of the material.

There are ways to check for damage.
-Measure the studs OD in various places, they are damaged if they are shaped like a woman.
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/imag...etched_lug.jpg

-You can also measure the thread pitch, the studs are M12x1,25.
That means that 10 threads should be 1,25cm, 20threads 2,5cm and so on.

What sort of nuts are you using? Quality or cheap chinese ones?
If might be the nuts causing this as well, a bad material combo can do that.
Are the nuts seizing and shearing when you try to un-sqrew them?

Family owns a mechanic shop since 1970. Dad loves anti seize! Never had a problem.

I torque mine at 85 with anti-seize. Had the wheels off close to 10 times, no problems yet!

Ok, you guys didn't read the whole thread...

I broked the bolt off in order to get it off. It was SEIZED and would not come off. It wasn't turning without using a giant breaker bar, and it did go quite a few turns (about 1/2") before finally breaking off.

It was that or drill it off and possibly ruin the wheel. Either way it had to come off somehow.

Note: The stock studs/lugs that stripped were handled by both me and mechanics at various points. These ARP studs were installed originally by a shop and two shops have had the wheels/tires off with these studs, but the current lugnuts I installed myself one at a time to spec but without the antisieze.