Eight-Six TRD vs FD2 Type-R
 

If I recall, TRD in Toyota nomenclature is the factory performance-oriented equivalent to Honda's red H-badged Type-Rs.

So here's the interesting match-up that warrants discussion.

http://www.allvehicles.co.uk/civic_fd2_type_r_100.jpg
http://www.civictyper.org/gallery/fd2civic1.jpg








http://stwot.motortrend.com/files/20...r-1024x640.jpg
http://stwot.motortrend.com/files/20...r-1024x640.jpg

No comparison. 86.

elaborate please

2007-2010 Civic Type R (FD2) - starting at £19,995 ($31,600.00)
K20A - 220hp @ 8400rpm /154ftlb 6,100rpm
2799~2900lbs
6spd FWD
LSD
4-Door and 3 Door Hatch
Wheelbase - 2,700 mm
Brembos and 225/40 R18 Bridgestone Potenza RE070 standard equipment
Economy claims 24-28 combined average imperial MPG
0-60 - 6.3
1/4 - 14.4
P:W 175
hp:L 111
**discontinued due to not meeting emissions standards

Overall its got some value for being a civicR, especially pitted against a steeper price of the Full TRD GT86 Variant.

If I could get a Civic R here, I would already have one. Then I wouldn't need an 86.

That would be the FN2. Not really the same car. Different chassis, suspension, and engine.

Not knowing what sort of power that the TRD 86 makes, you have to make a compelling argument for the CTR. Honda knows how to build a damn good car when it comes to the Type R series... the K20 in the CTR is no exception. 110hp/liter and that glorious 8500 rpm redline... When it comes to 4 cyl's, there's nothing like a high strung Honda 4 cyl.

TRD designation is really nothing like Honda's Type R.

The Type R designation is Honda basically turning a otherwise basic economy car, stripping it down, putting in a or modifying the engine until it's a streetable race car. And selling it like that.

AFAIK Toyota never sold a TRD car from the factory. I could be wrong though, as I've been a life long Honda owner.

TRD to me, if anything, is like HFP.

With all of that being said, I love the FD2 and wish they made it here in the states.

Too bad it would have cost as much as an STI here too.

So FRS it is. :)

haven't driven both FD2R and 86 but i'd pick 86 becos it's a ground up design sports car while the FD2R is a hot up family sedan (a good one too) which has a few compromise.

however i will be able to try my fd's FD2R later this year and i will report back.

I'm pretty sure that the FD CTR (JDM model) would be faster around a track, and they're very well set up too.

For me it's about FWD vs. RWD. I have a Renault Clio Sport R27 Team F1 edition, which is widely thought to be one of the best handling FWD cars ever made (refer to Evo magazine or even Best Motoring).

I'm selling the Clio Sport in favour of an 86 gt though simply because of the RWD factor. For me a well balanced RWD car just can't be matched for grins.

Interestingly, the Clio Sport's power, torque and weight are almost identical to the 86 as well, so I'm not even expecting more sheer speed!

The ability to play with the car - to drve it textbook smooth or hang it loose a bit - is what I'm after and no FWD car can offer that.

i actually think a fwd would enforce this more

the fd2 is one (together with the itr and megane rs) of the greatest fwd ever made. Around a rece track is is much more quicker than the twins (the ctr can set 1.08 around Tsukuba); yes is still a fwd BUT, like Drift King said, "it is a racing car, a racing car with number plates". Its NA k20 is absoulutely mad when it is in the VTEC zone, the same thing cannot be said for the FA20 sadly.

I drove a regular FD2 *edit* FA5 Si last week and it was really twitchy. Torque-steered in the rain like whoah! Interior was nice and the shifter feel was incredible for having a linkage and not being bolted directly to the trans. They'd have to put in some serious work to make that thing drive the way I'd want it to and even then, not a fan of FWD.

I believe that the JDM Type R cars (at least the Mugen RR) have an LSD to cure precisely that issue. Gets them out of the corners really well too.

Indeed, and that's the problem - they 'enforce' it.

I love the uniquely RWD trait of being able to play with power oversteer and 4 wheel drifts when 'textbook' gets old. :)

I've owned the FD2R and have driven the 86, also various of USDM Civic Si and CSX Type S

First of all, any one that think a Civic Si is about the same as the FD2-R is very wrong.
the SI compare to the Type R is like comparing a 335i with a M3 in terms of everything.

IMO the Civic Type R is a much better value than the 86. FYI, when i brought my FD2 in 07, i paid 300k HKD. The 86 cost 355k, I'd say they are the same price since there was a tax increase since 09. For the FD2, you get better bucket seats, a highly upgraded chassis, brembo brakes, much better tires. and IIRC it was faster than the NSX-R or just a tad slower than it when they had the race on best motoring!

stock to stock, the FD2 is a far more hardcore machine, suspension and chassis is so still that you'd think its on aftermarket coilovers, final gear is even at 5.0! This used to be a race mod on the DC5! and the noise the K20 make just made it sound even more hardcore. not to mention this car is still a 4dr sedan with a trunk. everyday usability is definitely better

the 86 on the other hand feels more as a sports car. but does not feel hardcore enough.
it doesn't feel as nimble as the FD2 and not enough grip thats for sure (although a set of proper tires will fix it) the car also feels a bit slow, probably cuz the chassis is just so much more capable than the engine output. but the perfect balance of the car just gives me smiles. its a really good car for just going for a drive, it reacts directly do what you want it to do. the FD2 is much faster, but you are also fighting with the car a lot more. the 86 is much more relaxing to drive.

if you want a hardcore track car that works as a daily commuter, i'd pick the FD2. if you want a small balance sports car, the 86 is the way to go.

After years of FWD cars, I'm (hopefully) never going back. I really don't care about the 'relative value' of the cars; the Civic just wouldn't be as fun to drive, for me. The BRZ/86 is as fast as I'll ever need it on the street, and a few bolt-ons may 'improve' the sound and smooth out the HP/TQ curves, once some development time goes into them.

Plus, the 86 looks damn sexy in comparison.

To each their own; I'm sticking with my BRZ.

FWD/

I owned an '07 Si Coupe, as well as an '07 FD2 (not at the same time obviously ;)) and they are a lot different.

I tracked them both and after 1 year (5 trackdays) in the Si I was hankering after something else, where as after 1 year (6 trackdays) in the FD2 I was nowhere near maxing out the fun factor. It was like owning a road going touring car. The extra power, uprated brakes, stiffer chassis, different exhaust, etc... made for one helluva car.

Obviously not available in North America, but for me the FD2, RS Clio 200 and the Toyaburu make for cross-shopping rivals in markets where they coexist.

I'm very interested to compare my Clio Sport 197 against the 86 back to back. Luckily the local launch of the 86 is this Wedneaday at Yas Marina and I've got an invite being one of the first 5 here to book an 86...but that's a whole different thread. :)

On the topic of the Civc Type R, we got the FN2 (UK built hatch) version of the CTR here and the Clio Spprt kills it around the track stock vs. stock.

But the JDM market FD CTRs are a whole other notch up. 230hp, LsD, better suspension. I've only tracked against one on one occasion here and it murdered me everywhere on the circuit apart from under braking.

It'll be interesting to see how an 86 will do around a circuit but I'm speculating that a stock 86 would have trouble against an FD CTR mainly due to the power defecit and stick tires.

A good driver in a TRD 86 versus a good driver in an FD or well set up FN2 would be very interesting.

Did I use the proper designation for the '08 Si sedan? Is it something other than FD2? I know sometimes the chassis codes get a little muddied between the JDM and USDM models...

I'd take a Mugen RR anyday of the week!

I would too but the problem is the Mugen RR was priced much higher. At that price range I would be looking elsewhere

For the price I'd probably get a BMW M1 instead. :thumbsup:

Ya I didn't want to be too much of a pedant and used model years in my reply instead of chassis codes ;) Generally speaking they were:
North America had the FG2 (coupe) and FA5 (sedan) Si's.
Europe had the FN2 (hatchback) 'Type R'.
Japan had the FD2 (sedan) Type R.

What is Canad's CSX?

^An overpriced option for suckers who wanted full leather interiors in their Civics :)

FD5

Mugen RR is not worth the money.

TRD did sell factory TRD cars, the 2000gt sw20 mr2 and 3000gt jza80 supra, with factory trd widebody kits, massive brakes and fine tuning for response, manual only, and VERY limited, there is a silver 3000gt supra just ten minutes away from my fathers house in NZ, i sworn dive towards it every time he drives pass, but like you said, TRD is just another tom's or techno toy spirit, mugen, factory "backed" aftermarket company,

agree on the type R stuff, fully race orientated arm of honda, if you guys in america could get the track bare bones cars like japan i think the awareness/persona of "type R" would be a whole lot diffident, and much more serious.

if TRD beefed up the motor like what was done to the type r the TRD would come out on top. However the Type-R even in fwd form still would had the advantage in my eyes, unless TRD touched the motor.

CTR > 86.

I would be rolling a CTR instead of my current BRZ if Honda sold it here in the states. The great thing about the BRZ is that I don't have to worry about theft. (:

I would be purchasing a CTR if it was available also. I loved my Si, but wanted to try something different. But the new generation of Civics are just terrible. Very cheap on the inside, so I don't know if I would still but a Type R, if they made one for the 9th Generation Civic, and for some random reason started selling them in the US.

I hate emission standards :barf:

In this case yes, it's quite different. Toyota have though, sold cars in the same vein. In japan, the TRD 2000GT (MR-2 Turbo, widebody some examples approaching 500hp) and the TRD 3000GT (Supra) were offered. Recently in Australia, the now defunct TRD Australia brought to market the TRD Aurion and Hilux.

Type R cars usually see a level of modification unlike your typical TRD car though. The thing a bout TRD technocraft, you can get pretty much a TRD anything from the factory in Japan, you just have to order it, a la carte from the parts catalog, and pay through the nose. You won't likely find any stripped and seam welded chassis though, unless you look at very special edition (Toyota) vehicles.

CTR would beat the brakes off the 86 with a trunk full of groceries and still get better mpg as well.

I agree with the first part...but Im averaging 32mpg and romp on the gas every chance I get. I think the mpg would be the same between the two.

If the CTR was here in the states I would have purchased it over the BRZ. I've had 11 Hondas, and every version of the Si they made up until 2011. Sadly after the ITR's stopped their production Honda hasn't let the US have anything exciting. Had they included the US market in any of the CTRs I'd still be a fan. They let me down, and I moved to another mfg.

Yeah, Honda used to have some hardcore nuts on them, and imo, they lost their soul. According to Best Motoring, the CTR is actually on the same level as the NSX-S on the track.

if your primary objective is performance on the track, just get a cobalt ss and destroy everything in this conversation including the nsx. if its soul you want, there is always a miata. if you want both, be prepared to spend another 20k

Sorry to reply on this old topic, but I own an Si and have an LSD stock.