Magazine Motorsport: S2000 vs BRZ
 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9_hZqvY5RM"]Drag race : Subaru BRZ VS Honda S2000 (Motorsport) - YouTube[/ame]

So if I care about being faster in the 1/4 mile or 400 meters I should go buy a brand new S2000 instead of a BRZ! Oh.......wait.

beat me to it :( S2000 put it down but with all that extra hp who wouldnt expect it.

No big surprise there... Does that AP2 S2000 have the F20C? The AP2 in the 'States is limited to 8,000rpm with the F22C, isn't it? That one redlines at 9k rpm.

Redline is 8,000. Limiter is a bit above that. I owned an 05 AP2. Great car and I would be lying if I said I did not miss it. Hopefully the FR-S' dynamics will make me forget.

i was hoping for a more Touge/road course comparison video. Much like Motortrends Mustang vs BRZ comparo.

early euro and japanese ap2's kept the f20c units hence the 9k redline.


the frs does handle very well in comparison to the s2k though

Haha, I love that line. :bellyroll:

But yeah, I'm reading the YouTube comments and it's pretty sad. People can't see past the numbers. But what do you expect in a country full of egotistical people that only know how to drive straight?

Of course, it would have been nice to have a little more power but I would much rather have the FA20 over the F20C. More torque down low, more fuel efficient, and no dramatic VTEC lift.

This is not at all the video I was hoping for. Of course the S2000 is faster in a straight line... Drag racing isn't the point of either one of these cars though. :\

And yeah, as someone mentioned, it looks like a Euro S2000, which retained the (imho) better F20C in the AP2.

Both the BRZ/FR-S and the S2000 are awesome drivers cars. BUT the S2000 is no longer made, so why compare a 4-12 year old used car to the BRZ? Also the S2000 was $32k 12 years ago so it's no surprise it's faster and very well may handle a little better. The biggest difference between the two is the tires, the S2000 actually came with performance tires, the BRZ not so much. The BRZ does have good handling characteristics but the tires do hold it back from good magazine numbers.

FYI, I have driven both extensively.

Although, the BRZ did seem to get off the line better, even with worse tires.

I think it's fair to compare these as some will look to buy a used S2000 over a new BRZ or FR-S. I would also like to see them compare it to an RX-8 although I have no interest in buying anything other than an FR-S.

I like both the FR-s/BRZ and S2000 so much that I would love to own both at the same time. Maybe I will ...

im in the same boat. they are both drivers cars thats very well made imho

Exactly. Honestly, I've just stopped reading/watching these types of reviews now. They are interesting but meaningless since this is a DD for me and not a track car.

In this case for example, if I had wanted a car to win a drag race, I would have gone with the second car on my list, the ZL1.

No matter how much a top dog you are, there's always one somewhere that hunts a little better.

^ Agreed!

Yeah...when I saw them line up and noticed a 1:00 video time I already knew exactly how that was all gonna end

I can't imagine many people are gonna build this car for Drag, there's nothing on the car to indicate it should ever see a drag tree...silly rag editors...

They should get the car and driver BRZ reviewer who did a 14.9 out there and try it again :D

The toyobaru continues to disappoint in comparison tests. Most people here are in a state of denial, and like an ostrich, want to keep their heads firmly buried in the sand. I'm certainly interested in this car and I want to know the characteristcs of the toyabru relative to other cars. You just can't alienate the car from the rest of what the market offers. After all, car buyers are in the market and do comparisons all the time. That's what a rational person does. The only car so far that the toyobaru can outdo is the MX-5 and cars below it, like the Yaris. Not good at all!! It was the bad enough that the splendid Megane RS flogged the living daylights out of the BRZ, but I find this test quite shattering in terms of my image of the car.

:dnftt:

Seriously though, this is one of the dumbest posts I've read on this forum.

This has to be a joke... you thought it would beat an S2000 ($36,000, 270hp, 8000+ rpm redline) in a drag race? And you accuse other people of having their heads in the sand... kettle, pot, black, etc.

Lol, looks like you're feeding on a diet of poor performance. The joke is on you. Sorry, but this is just not good enough. Go and cry somewhere else:cry::cry:

This consumer mentality is why cars today have becoming bigger, more expensive and built to target other vehicles to "fight against" ultimately becoming "boring" to some extent. The Zx6 was built on the premis of no comparison. Finding only the mechanical connection between the driver, a road in its rawest form. During engineering they took the caymen R as a benchmark of driving characteristics, not to beat in a performance test.

For someone like yourself to state continued disappointment means that your still stuck on the race, rather than the emotion that has been lost in sports cars since the mid 90s. But Im not saying your wrong, your abosuletly right in your post. But what we are trying to ask here is to shift our sight from the norm...

For many of us here who have been following this car since its announcement in 2009. What we have been searching for is not numbers, but a forgotten love story. Many people here have a big resume of cars from all sorts of power ranges, and their most memorable and heart felt experiences as an enthusiast have been with the most underpowered unimpressive cars.

The FRS/GT86/BRZ is the that same lost love story. Which im willing to pay a premium for, even if I get beat against a competition of numbers.

I can see both sides, but I gotta admit I'm a little disappointed, I already knew that the S2000 would be faster, but it got me thinking...the S2000 isn't a drag racer either, it's a back roads carving machine like the BRZ, very similar weight to the BRZ, same great handling. Why buy a BRZ when you can have an S2000 which will arguably give you a very similar experience for less money? Really not trying to troll here, but I'm not 100% loyal to the BRZ either. The car is fantastic I'm sure, but the S2000 has been doing the same thing for the past 12 years. 100 hp/liter, high redline, low weight and great handling. Am I missing something? I wanna know what makes this car different from an S2000, honest.

Well for me, the S2000 was horribly impractical, 18/24 economy is a down seller. and the fact that its a roadster.

While they are similar in handling, they achieve it in completely different ways.

What we should be asking ourselves is whats more important to us as an individual buyer? In the overall bigger picture, even if the s2000 is a better performer, the BRZ still offers the same feeling of the sportyness of the s2000 but has a wider range of uses. AKA the Zx6 has better general value.

Because it's a fixed roof coupe and is 100lbs + lighter ... not everyone wants a convertible. I'd love a Miata or S2000... if they were a fixed roof coupe.

:bellyroll:

I love the s2000. Such a wonderful NA car. Especially on the track.

I'd own one now but it's way too loud in the cabin. It gets annoying and tiring on a long trip.

2008 s2000:
Power: 177 kW , 237 HP SAE @ 7,800 rpm; 162 ft lb , 220 Nm @ 6,800 rpm

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2008/...#ixzz1vev5wWPe

+Honda reliability and strong aftermarket. I hope the same holds true for the BRZ as mine will be here in 2-3 weeks.

Ok, so the practicality and roof, I can understand that. I guess for me I'll still be keeping my Legacy as a winter car and will use it when I need lots of interior room or utility, so I don't see value in that personally, and I wouldn't mind a convertible either, so I suppose I don't value the hardtop as much as some of you do. Guess those are the differences then, thanks for the insight.

An S2000 CR makes a great street car and has a hardtop
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m.../bluethumb.gif

And used ones are more expensive than a new BRZ.

Personally I don't own a S2000 because I want a rear seat to haul the occasional friend and more trunk space for long trips to visit family.

Imho, if you're buying the FR-S/BRZ for a fun "weekend only" car, there are FAR better options for that. Hell, I've thought on more than one occasion about skipping the FR-S all together, buying a cheap beater, and getting my second NSX.

However, if you're like me, and intend on having only one vehicle for a while, the FR-S provides a good option for the 'best of both worlds' scenario. It's relatively quiet, practical, gets good mileage, reliable, but is also fun to drive and a purist sports car in the most traditional sense.

If you're looking for a weekend toy and want to spend $25k, for the love of God, go buy an NSX or an Elise. I love the FR-S and have been following it for years, but I could never even begin to imagine it as my "fun" second car that sits in the garage most of the week.

And for those arguing power issues... it's irrelevant, honestly. If you're going to track it, and if 1) you're a good enough driver, and 2) the chassis/setup is really as good as they make it out to be on the FRS, you'll pass up several cars that are supposedly faster and better track cars. Power isn't everything. Some of the most fun I've ever had on the track was in my old 135 hp MR2. Slowest thing on the planet, but man you could just play with it! You could easily explore the limits, it was incredibly easy to control (understeer in? Just lift! The back will come right around!), and very rewarding when you got it right---much like I expect the FR-S to be. Power is overrated imho.

:word:

I daily drove an S2000 for nearly 7 years including a couple trips clear across the US. I got almost 28 mpg lifetime and it never broke down once. I loved it the first time I drove it and felt the same way when I watched it drive away. If the BRZ I have on order provides half the joy of that car I'll be happy. I sold the S2000 for one reason--first baby and no back seat. I'm buying the BRZ hoping that it's like an S2000 with a tiny back seat.

One thing to consider... The S2000 was just over $30k in 1999, that would be in the low $40s now in the US adjusted for inflation. I'd bet if we were all willing to suck up another 12K or so in MSRP they could get more power from the motor. I'm not willing to do that--happy with 200hp here for the price it's at.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...ber2009024.jpg

i concur!!!

Yeah, I've had an 7th gen Celica GT-S and G35 plus a few MkII MR2s/Spyder. I miss the banshee howling Celica more than the wheezing G boat.

Used vs. New = more confidence in long term use and zero fear of mechanical issues (not that Honda's are bad.. they are excellent.. but still...)

Size.. S2000 is a very small 2-seater.. Most BRZ buyers are not expecting a very useful back seat, but it still exists for stowing luggage, small kids, etc..

Price.. Remember the BRZ is still in the bottom rung of prices for cars in it's class. The S2000 was quite a bit more expensive than some of it's competitors when it was sold.

Hardtop vs. Roadster. Many people want the hardtop.. don't want the noise from the roadster. Personally, I like the convertible.. but I think most people prefer the hardtops.



The one thing that gets me is that people aren't seeing the potential of the BRZ yet. They think that it always has to have 200hp. We all know that supercharger/turbocharger options are coming in the future. I fully expect to have a 250 to 300 hp BRZ... and I'm not talking about waiting for the STI/TRD versions to come out. I'm guessing the cost of a TRD S/C will be less than what the future upgraded BRZ model will cost.

If you could make another 100hp for $4k, then how would the BRZ/S2000 comparison turn out? The BRZ might be faster at that point and nobody could complain about the price because the BRZ would still be less expensive than the MSRP of the S2000 from a few years ago.

15.7 is one of the slowest times posted so far...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5462

There was a video in this thread where the 86 did a 14.7 quartermile

this test was probably done with less capable drivers plus that s2000 def posts better times aswell

I think its gonna take more than 4k to see a reliable 100 hp increase from this engine since it has D/I and a high CR. I think 50 hp for 4k might also be a stretch too. I wish this car had like a 1.6-8l boxer turbo that delivered 220hp/190tq as an optional engine for like 2k more.

Yeah that's another thing about the car that bothers me is the lack of mods we'll be able to do to the engine. I feel like this car will be stuck below 215 hp unless you wanna spend big money.