Leasing an FR-S
 

Hey, a general manager where I have my deposit at informed me today to expect a lease on a base FR-S to be around $450 a month based on a standard lease of 2500 down for 36 months like most other leases.

Does anyone know of this is going to happen if I want to lease the frs rather than buy the car?

I was hoping to pay 300 or less to lease the FR-S based on 36 month and 2500 due at signing.

Anyone here currently leasing the frs or know any info on leases in the US?

I smell make up!

Yeah I told him there was no way. His argument was that since the cars are limited quantity, the lease is high. He said, "that's why FJ cruiser leases are much higher than say a Camry worth about the same price because there are many more camrys than FJ produced."

DO NOT LEASE UNLESS IT APPLIES TO YOU!

For the most part Leasing is only good for specific individuals in certain situations.

If you don't know anything about leasing i suggest you do some research before you get destroyed financially from a lease.

If you buy the car, it was always be the ultimately cheapest route. Especially if you have plans to want to own the vehicle. If you have good credit, go through a credit union or a similar loan office that gives you a good interest rate.. buy the car and set up a comfortable monthly rate for you.

I am leasing in Canada for about $440, with $0 down, over 3 years. This is after 13% sales tax and dealer fees.

I don't wish I own the FR-S, currently leasing a camry and that lease is up in July. So I'm planning to lease the FR-S for a resonate monthly payment.

That is definitely a complete rip off... Whoever leases an FR-S for that much is a complete retard. Your best option is to finance a vehicle if you can. If you dont feel like keeping the vehicle after 3 years, trade it in for another. 3k down at an msrp around 25k + taxes & tags can bring you around 24-25 again / by 60 months can bring your payments around 404 (rough estimate). Way cheaper than the lease... Plus you have collateral towards your next vehicle, just keep in good shape.

450 x 36 + 2500 = $18700 and no car at the end of the deal.. one word: wow!

Even at 300 per month it works out to $13300

Someone has money to give away

i feel like dealers are playing on the hype and are going to screw some people over. i really hope they won't be this cars downfall

You should ask the guy what color your second FRS is going to be for that lease price!

The residual value on a FRS manual trans is $16,698 (12,000 miles per year) and MSRP is $24,930. Your payments are based on the difference, plus tax, tags, interest, etc.

Your monthly depreciation is ($24,930 + $650 acq fee - $16,698) / 36 mos = $246.72 depreciation

The finance charges are based on the cap cost (sale price, less any trade or cap cost reduction which is down payment in excess of first payment and tags). This example, I'm assuming $0 down, just responsible for start ups (1st payment & tags) due at signing.

The math:

$24,930 + $16,698 + $650 acquisition fee = $42,278

$42,278 * .00200 (Tier 1+ money factor for lease) = $84.56 (monthly "Interest")

This amount is the monthly "interest" to borrow the money to lease the car through Toyota Financial Services. It is based on your credit score. Here's a chart of what TFS's money factors are depending on your score.

Zone 1+ Fico 720+ -----0.00200 up to 60 months
Zone 1 Fico 719-690 ----0.00210 up to 60 months
Zone 2 Fico 689-670 ----0.00255 up to 60 months
Zone 3 Fico 669-650 ----0.00345 up to 60 months
Zone 4 Fico 649-630 ----0.00410 up to 60 months
Zone 5 Fico 629-610 ----0.00490 up to 60 months
Zone 6 Fico 609-580 ----0.00550 up to 60 months
Zone 7 Fico 579-520 ----0.00670 up to 60 months

Now, add the monthly depreciation and the monthly "interest" and you will have the base monthly payment before taxes.

$246.72 + $84.56 = $331.28

The taxes will vary by state/counties, etc, but since I'm in Pennsylvania, I'm going to use my home state for the example.

$331.28 * 9% (6% sales tax + 3% usage tax) = $29.82 tax on payment.

Now add all three amounts together. Depreciation + Interest + Tax = Lease payment

$246.72 + $84.56 + $29.82 = $361.10 lease payment

This payment is just with your 1st payment and tags due at signing, which at my dealership in PA would be $361.10 + $217.05 = $578.15.

For each additional $1,000 down payment, you should subtract roughly $30 per month from the payment for a quick estimate. This method will get you close....I'd say +/- $2-3 per month and if that variance is going to stop you from buying this car, then you probably shouldn't be buying it in the fist place...lol

So for the OP that was putting $2500 down, I would estimate that your payments should be around $300 +/-, depending on the tax rate of course.

The guys's comment about FJ leases being high is in part true. They lease like crap, but it's not because of production. It's because the residual is based off of the BASE MSRP of the vehicle, not the total MSRP of it. So the packages and options are not residualized so you are paying for them in each of your lease payments and none of the value of the packages are added to the residual at the end. THAT is the reason why the lease sucks on an FJ. I wanted to lease an Army green FJ last year, but didn't want a $550 lease pmt on one, so I passed.

This should shed even more light into leasing. I should add this to my Lease 101 post. On the way to do that now. :)

Ruskymx

ruskymx, why are you adding the residual to the base price for the interest?? That doesn't seem right at all.. I think you meant to subtract the residual from the base price.

As goofy as it seems, that is how the interest is calculated on a lease. See this link for another example.

http://www.leaseguide.com/lease08.htm

You are also charged sales tax on your down payment if you put more than the minimum down. I'm not sure if that's how it is in every state, but it works that way for PA. The reason behind it is that any additional down payment is considered a capitalized cost reduction (cap cost = sale price) so it reduces the amount that your depreciation payment is based on so therefore needs to be charged sales tax. One more reason to not put a large amount down on a lease because you will pay tax on it upfront instead of being spread out over all of your payments.

I double checked my math with a lease calculator on my iPhone from the app store and I was within $1 per month of the payment. See the attached image.

The selling price is $24,930 + $650 acq fee. The residual is off by $5.10 and won't have a major effect on the payment.

Ruskymx

I adjusted the residual so it's within $0.12 and look at the payment...$0.01 off my manual calculations. :clap: (need the pat myself on the back smiley)

Ruskymx

I don't know how relevant this will be because mine is somewhat of a special case, but the lease I'm going to get will end up being about $313.00 a month and I was told it's 30k miles a year, four years, insurance included.

How much are you putting down? Are you sure it is 30K miles a year? That seems really high?

As far as I know, there's no money down. And 30k is what I was told.

I am leasing, 300 month 3k down no gap,.0 002 money factor, car price 25k 12k miles/yr.

Well, talked to a dealer who already had a car in stock. There is NO lease option on the FR-S. They say its still too new and there's no previous cars to estimate the value etc. If anyone can shed some light on when a lease would be available please let us know.

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...y/facepalm.gif

Absolutely there is a lease available! Was it a salesperson that told you this? If so, find a different one that knows what is going on with this car. Call them up and tell the that you know for a fact that there is a lease available and that you know that the residual for 36 months, 12k per year is $16,698 for a manual transmission. Call the sales manager or internet manager and throw the salesperson under the bus for being a schmuck.

Ruskymx

Well, in 36 months your brand new frs is going to be worth just below 17,000 dollars by Toyota's estimate assuming you only drove it 12,000 miles a year. With a sale price of about 25,000 you "gave away" 8,000 dollars. I will probably never lease a car in my life, I think it's a terrible idea for 99% of people, but I think the argument for it is a little more complex.

Comparison of leasing vs buying FRS. Both scenarios are going to use $600 out of pocket at the start of the contract, use Tier 1 + rates, and PA tax rates.

Lease Payment = $361.10

Buy Payment = $471.77

Lease - 36 * $361.10 = $12,999.60

Finance - 36 * $471.77 = $16,983.72

Difference = $3,941.12 less in payments made over 3 years.

The principle balance after 36 payments on the finance is $10,949.17 assuming no additional payments were made (i.e.-extra principle). A lease would be great for someone that would want to buy a new vehicle every 3 years say for example, if there's a TRD version, STi, etc in the future. If a new model like that is introduced, people are going to want the new model and get rid of their current one. This influx of used FR-S's into the market would drop the value of them. I'll use $15,000 for this example. If you leased the car, the residual is $16,698 and that is the buyout at the end. Uh, oh....someone is upside down by $1,698. Guess who that is?

NOT YOU! Toyota Financial is on the hook for that loss! Oh yeah, and you paid $3,941.12 in payments over 3 years. Now lets look at he guy who financed the car. The payoff in 3 years will roughly be $10,949.71. Ok, so you are in good shape. The car is still worth $4,050.29 more than you owe. SWEET! Wait a minute....but you paid $3,941.12 more in payments over the 3 years. The net benefit is only $109.17 so the math isn't as skewed as many people think.

My second example will be if the car is worth $18,000 at the end of three years. The lease guy would owe $16,698. Oh no! Toyota is going to make money off the car after I made all those payments! WRONG! The equity in the car is YOUR money. You just got back $1,302 of the payments you made over the last three years. The finance guy has the same payoff as before at $10,949.71. This example grosses him $7,050.29 and then subtract the extra $3,941.12 in the higher payments and the benefit is $3,109.17. Now subtract the $1,302 that the lease person got back and the final benefit amount is $1,807.17.

The second example does favor the finance guy more than the first example. It is a more substantial amount, but with the residual at 67%, which is a high amount for a lease already, is it really going to be worth much more than that in 3 years. Nobody really knows. If you do know, then I have some stocks I want to run by you and let me know where they will be at in 3 years. It's just an educated guess by the Automotive Leasing Guide.

If you are going to keep this car for the long haul, then by all means finance it. You will pay more over time of you lease it, then buy it out at the end. That is a FACT! If you may want to trade it in for a new car, whether it's a new FRS, BRZ, or you knock up some chick and she has triplets and you need a Sienna, leasing will give you greater flexibility in 3 years and pay less in payments now. You would also need to drive a reasonable amount of miles per year. I have a feeling though that most people aren't going to be buying this car to drive it 30-50k per year. The more mileage that you build into a lease, the higher your payment will be.

Another reason to buy it is if you are going to do a lot of mods to it. If you lease the car and it gets returned to the bank, Toyota will want the car are stock as possible. All your mods will not add value and if anything, they may charge you for missing items, non-oem parts etc. Word of advice, if you are going to mod the car, keep your original parts!

Ruskymx

Thanks for the info! I hope I can get the dealer to get it down to less than 300 a month, after the 2500 down, 36/39 month lease with great credit.

I started going through other car options and Volkswagen was happy to give me a 2 door GTI Auto lease for 36 months, 10k miles per year with 2500 down for $219. Good deal if you ask me so I'm on edge for what will happen with the FRS lease...

Lease pricing estimates are up on Scion.com

3 year lease, 15K miles a year, 2,500 cap cost reduction

$264/month. I don't think this includes tax..

Sounds good. I will inform my dealer about this. Could you post a link on where you found those numbers. I didn't seem to find it browsing scion.com on my phone. Thanks!

I don't see any advertised special. I think he is using the Financial Tools->Payment Calculator. That would be nice if those estimated payments are correct.

Yes, I was using the Easy to Buy -> Payment Calculator. http://www.scion.com/buy/payment_calculator/

Chose FRS Manual. Selected Term Duration and Miles/Year.

Yup, I just saw that now. I wonder if anyone has actually leased the car already. Seems like the people snapping up these first couple cars at the dealers are paying the 25k in cash.

Well I think leasing is better than buying used. If your waiting to buy used in a few years, be ready to spend money on repairs. My parents for example only finance used cars. They're always dumping so much money just keeping the car running. By the time it's paid off, it'll be so crappy that they're already looking for the next car to buy. If you can only afford to buy used/higher mileage, leasing might be better. I rather spend thousands of dollars every few years to have a brand new car, than to keep an older car running.

So bummed that there will no lease program on this car. Now looking at GTI's since they are offering great lease prices! I'm talking about $220 a month for 36 months $2500 down. Anyone else have info on if or when scion with add it to the pure lease program they have?

Weird, I leased mine... I liked having the option after 3 years, more money in the mean time, and I can just save the money that I was going to pay forward and decide what to do with it when the lease is up.

I leased for 3 years, $384 payments ($396 including my parking lot ding protection), and only $1500 down. Maybe try another dealership?

My lease came out to $360 per month + tax. like $390 or something. $1,500 down.

I write off a portion of my lease, and have been leasing for 15 years now. Couldn't be happier. I may buy the next one in 3 years when I can get a sick FRS, with a body kit and all ready to go out the dealer door.

Interesting we have similar numbers, my assumed higher interest rate is cancelled out by taxes I guess.

I didn't even consider leasing until I got to the dealership....Seems to be a much more flexible way to do things.

Let me tell you my experience, I have never leased a car that after 3 years I wish I bought. That's right around the time expensive services start, and I have always felt that right around 36-40 miles I got the best the car had to offer. I get tired of the same car, and like to switch up every couple years. I rent the car use and abuse it, and then get a new one 3 years later. Its worked for me so far. One day I will buy. It will just have to be a real special car.

Lease history
06 Civic
09 Civic
2002 Jaguar X-type
2006 Infiniti G35
2009 370Z
2013 FRS


2015 FR-S Turbo with full TRD body kit. (god willing)

I leased mine on Fathers Day.....tier one, zero down, 36 months, 67% residual ($16698) was $366 a month (almost 9% tax).......total drive off was in the mid $600's

I leased mine too and just received my first statement in the mail today too. My dealership made changes to our menu's and posted price so I was able to get it for invoice. It worked out because we didn't have another FR-S coming in within 30 days so we could change our pricing and not violate the Scion Covenant.

I'm paying $315 per month, 12k per year and I put $1000 that covered start ups and a little more that brought the payment down a few dollars. I was Tier 1 and the money factor is .00210.

I am still going to mod the car, but I am going to make sure that I keep all my original parts in case I don't buy it at the end or even before the lease matures. Maybe in 2015 Toyota will release the GT86 or have a TRD version of the FR-S or something cooler. I haven't been able to keep a car longer than 3 years anyway since 2000 so leasing will work great for me.

Ruskymx

That's nuts! I put $ 2800 down on a 36 month lease at 15,000 miles per year. Payments $311.00. Check the residual and look for other junk fees and profit stuffers. If all else fails call Kings Toyota in Cincinnati ask for Bruce Ihle. Straight shooters. No games. Great to work with. Tell him you were recommended by the guy that bought the black FR-S on May 30. Good Luck! This car rocks!!!

With some major changes potentially in the future of this car, a 3 year lease almost seems perfect. What do we have to pay you to do our negotiating?

I actually had to explain to my general manager that we can change the price, but just had to have it posted on our website and showroom. He was just under the impression that it was not possible. The only way I see these being discounted is if some knucklehead dealer installed a bunch of accessories to their car and it sits for a while. Once they realize their mistake, they will lower the price to try and sell the car.

There is not a lot of profit in the car to begin with, which is in-line with the rest of the Scion line up. $1,196 of mark up which is about 5%. No holdback on Scions either unlike Toyotas and other makes.

Ruskymx

I figured with 3k down it should be closer to 277/mnth.

Now I see you posted Scion has it at 264/mnth