Collection of motor failures! Please help compile to help everyone!
 

Hi everyone, my second motor just failed at 26k miles, fresh oil, less than 300 miles on it. Toyota last serviced it at 21k, cam sensor, forgot to tighten a motor mount, etc etc (tech was an idiot) motor was replaced at 18k miles. I was found "at fault" and they covered 80% on "goodwill" (BS, statistically, it's their fault or mine... can't say, oh, well, it was only partially our fault, symantics, it's been fixed.) So now at 26k, same syptoms as last time, lift off throttle, rattling, gets worse, pulled off, while pulling off the road, feathered it in N at around 3k, definitely bearing failure. Car went to the dealer this morning. I am seriously in fear of another drawn out fight to get them to accept responsibility. I am also going after my $1100 from last motor repair, since oil is clearly NOT the reason they fail, or it is, but not regular oil changes at least. I would LOVE to be able to make this a clean, simple collection of catostrophic motor failures, and would appreciate any help!

Please state

What failed (if you know)
Mileage
How it failed
Circumstances when it went out- slow and gradual or just boom
Results of warranty claim?
And of course... modifications to the car, your use of the car
Last oil change
List of services performed, IE, recent reflash etc.
Some way to contact people would be cool? I am open to suggestions, but basically just so that the list isn't a bunch of BS, and has some actual significance- Understand that toyota techs/advisors hate knowitall forum junkies, and that isn't my intention to throw this info in their face, just make sure the problem doesn't continually get ignored!

Thanks everyone, this could be very helpful since they are claiming the number of failures is "statistically insignificant." I think we all know someone who's experienced one. That doesn't seem insignificant. Nor does two on the same car at less than 30k miles. I bought this car specifically because I needed reliability, and thought a Toyobaru would be a good choice and have been to hell and back, and simply want to drive my car and not fear random failures... There's a strong chance that the last tech messed something up that caused the second failure, but since it ran fine for 8k miles, I really doubt that... This could also help Toyota/Subaru fix the problem potentially, but I'll be honest, the main reason I want this thread built, is to support people who have failed motors from the warranty reps from corporate who act like insurance people and do anything possible to avoid fixing their cars. I know one guy was told that his CAI let water in and it "hydrolocked" after fighting it, they were unable to prove it, and it was indeed bearing failure. He was well within service intervals as well, with plenty of good oil... Best of luck, best wishes.

Rod bearing failure #1
18k
Driving spirited, but not crazy, about 5.5k rpm out of a 3rd gear corner on a back road, immediately made noise, slowed and confirmed bottom end issue of some sort. No CEL at any point in time, motor was still running, and drove it onto the wrecker.
I was found "at fault" since I couldn't prove the oil had been changed since 5k miles when Toyota last did it. They offered %80/%20 which I accepted- continual problems after motor replacement, tech messed up a lot of things.
Injen, at the time stock intake, CBE, AP crank pulley. Toyota didn't blame any of these or even mention them.
12k miles, unable to prove, Toyota assumed 5k. Oil was "2qts low" really? So a new car burns 2qts of oil between changes and that's normal?
multiple HPFPs, taillights, a reflash before failure
I can be reached here if you need info, PM, as I haven't yet checked the rules on contacting people with methods not forum related, and don't want to get myself or others in trouble with the mods.

Bearing failure #2
26k
Cruise control 67mph, lifted off for an exit, rattled, started to pull off, while doing so feathered throttle in Neutral, confirmed same noise as first time, but much worse and louder, by the time I slowed and coasted to a parking lot, when I stopped it shuddered made some super awesome noises and stalled. (Seized.) CEL only came on after it had stalled... Still none after failure, which is still odd to me. Shouldn't our knock sensors pickup massive bearing failure?...
TBD- at dealer on 5/12/14, hopefully I'll know soon
Same as before. Injen, APCP, CBE.
300mi before it died. Mobile 1 0W20 extended performance, Bosch Super whatever ultra amazing oil filter. (not cheapo, I'd use it on an M96 Porsche without hesitation)
Long block replacement, 3 HPFP (and was chirping again when it failed,) multiple taillights, (finally replaced with Valentis,) Cam sensor, motor mount, reflash, and a million other tiny details the tech missed doing the long block replacement.

I'll post mine when they call me with more details after they pull the motor. Your symptoms sounds similar to mine.

God I hate seeing these posts.. Good luck with the dealership man.

Di injectors/ seals from your old motor in the new long block?

Didn't Tut already have a thread just like this one going?

what kind of rattle were you having on your motor?

Not sure, I'll look for it. We NEED to get a proper list of cases going, not saying class action, but simply make sure they don't BS anyone out of a motor. I'll search and ask to have this one deleted if so. I couldn't find any though. Link?

Also, exactly as predicted, spun #2 rod bearing... Tired of this waiting crap. I need my rental it's a PITA. The entire reason I bought the car was because I was concerned about future reliability of my Eclipse... which is probably still fine today. Very frustrating. Next time I'm lemon lawing the car. This is ridiculous.

He compiled the list inside another thread, never created a new one. Let me see if I can find his post.

In all it's glory: @King Tut

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...25&postcount=4

The Caveat is that all of this motors are boosted.

I personally know of 5 other motors blown here in South FL that are not posted anywhere and have not been mentioned out of respect to owners.

All boosted?

All Turbo...

One actually was on the forums, tuner had car in its hands, Olympic Motorsports in South FL and in their hand boom... It was later discovered logs showed lean and improper WG pressure.

That sucks....... Really hate hearing that. :/ crap happens. Lean is a big no go. That shouldn't be an issue. I mean occasionally an FPR fails or something but...

FI cars aside, I'm primarily looking to complile a list of cars that are under warranty. To those 5 owners, I respect their privacy. It would be cool though if they could help out, I'm more than happy to find a meaniable to contact them if not on here?

For clarification - mine was boosted at the time of the catastrophic failure at 33k miles, but had been showing symptoms since new, including a trip to the dealer for a cylinder head replacement.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=28

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=32

Not sure what was wrong. Engine sent to Subaru for analysis.
1K miles
Cruising down the highway at constant speed, started making extremely loud metal-on-metal grinding noise.
Warrantly claim accepted < 1 day. New long block installed.
Stock
No service yet, 3 weeks old.

ECU error codes P0303 and P0011.

Perfect! Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for! Hope more people come around to this. Sorry you're going through it though. At least they didn't give you any issues. I'm STILL waiting to hear back from Toyota.

:/ Darn.... Sorry to hear that. Yeah mine hasn't been right since about 9k miles, failed at 18k, installer was a moron, still wasn't right, they said it's fine, drive it. And I did, and failed again at 26k. I'm just tired of it. This is ridiculous. I thought I bought a reliable car, that was my intention. Miata fun, a little more practical, (Since I already have one miata, and more room etc,) just as reliable. Not even close... Should've bought a corolla or a used NC.

There are days where I wish I spent the money on an S2000 instead, but I still like the car. I'm a glutton for punishment I guess.

While it sucks some people are going through this, the vast majority of FA20 engines are holding up well.

There seems to be a common theme.
Either

1) they are boosted and either A) the tune is bad or B) something physical was done incorrectly in the install

2) The ones popping N/A have had niggling problems from brand new untill eventually they pop.

I'm yet to hear of a perfect running motor just suddenly pop out of nowhere at say 20k miles.

Good luck to those getting warranties

16k miles
Completely stock
Last oil change at 7500
Drove it pretty hard but have lots of experience with driving fast cars, viper, cts-v so im not a dumbass
Was is cruise control in 5th gear going 55, engine sort of stalled out then engine went. Smoke dumped out of hood and exhaust. Threw it in neutral and coasted to a stop.
Blew a rod and sent my cylinder through the head. got full warranty because last snal taken was at a high gear and low rpm.
Toyota tech came in and looked and it and saod the cat was driven extremely hard blah blah blah and there was supposably tons of metal in the engine.
Waitin on complete new engine rebuilt and the techs told me i has the first engine failure in the U.S. Lol
Gonna be scared to drive it hard after the replacement but as you all know it isnt any fun below 4k rpm.

Sorry for spelling errors am on the highway typing

I dont know what's funnier. This:

Or this:

Gotta love dealerships.:thumbdown:

So my new short block is in the car and they're planning to have it ready by Tuesday.

What failed: The dealership never really did much diagnosis beyond finding some metal in the oil pan. They just went ahead and ordered a new block after that.

Mileage: 38,000

How it failed: Seemed like a spun bearing to me based on the symptoms

Circumstances when it went out- slow and gradual or just boom: I didn't let it get to the point of seizing or going boom, but the rattle came without warning.

Results of warranty claim: Covered under warranty

modifications to the car, use of the car: TRD exhaust, daily driver, no competition

Last oil change: A week before failure. Before that, 5,000 miles prior (my dealership will not change it on a 5,000 mile interval with my maintenance plan. They say Toyota has these cars listed as 7,500 between changes. I have been paying for additional oil changes between their interval).

List of services performed: Re-torque axle nut, Tail lamp assembly replaced (both), new pilot bushing, ignition coil #1 replaced, new fuse block and engine harness

One accident a year ago. Kid backed into my car at a stoplight. 7,100.00 in parts. 3,300.00 in labor.

Thanks! I did get my warranty, new block is on its way, and they decided to listen to me, and have a "master technician" (engineer?) come and look into the heads, since I mentioned I thought there was a recurring issue there, that potentially contributed?

HAHAHAHAH! First engine failure... yeah. Ok. That's what they told me here. By the way, Bill Penney Toyota of Huntsville- on point. Night and day difference with them and Rivergate in Nashville. I think had I been to them the first time, I wouldn't have been fighting like I was. By the way, that sounds exactly like my first failure.... Mileage is even similar. They blamed mine though on a long interval for the oil change, which with the diagnosis of this motor, is clearly NOT the issue. Oh well. We'll see after this one what they say, I may go back and try for my grand back. Also had similar recordings in the ECU blackbox whatever. Was cruising for almost an hour probably never higher than like 3500 to pass, AT so taller gears too, no CEL until it stalled. -.- Good to know the knock sensors work well. LMAO

Oh oh oh . So the funny part was when they almost accused me of over revving then saw it was an AT. He was kinda just, "uh...well. Ok I'll call Toyota and get back to you."

Yupp.... same story. Makes me scared to think what will happen with long term wear outside of warranty. I encourage everyone who's had a long block replacement to call Scion and try to get them to cover it on an extended warranty. Even if it's just the parts that were replaced, I feel that's very important. You're at 38k already, and a lot higher than me, but say it fails at 76k next time? Now what? warranty only goes to 60. Just stinks is all. Motors shouldn't be failing this early.

Curious about the coil and harness issue? Was it related to something else? you have a thread on it? As opposed to a head problem, a bad coil or not 100% coil rather would make more sense for the rough running that my car was doing before. Goofy idle, sounded.... excessively "burbly" in the midrange. I know that's a character of the car, but this is compared to the first motor. I hope #3 is perfect. Because if it isn't, seriously- I'm calling a lemmon law attorney. I just can't take it anymore. The car has been down for MONTHS in for service. It's ridiculous. Not to mention the diminished value long term having to explain paperwork of THREE motors to a potential buyer, even covered under warranty, they're going to think it was abused.

They accused me of over revving it as well. They even said they saw 8,500rpm in the black box. I told them that I wanted to see that data, which they (unsurprisingly) couldn't produce.

Once they lost that battle, they then turned to my suspension modifications and assumed it was raced. Fun times.

PS- If I come across as bitter about this, you're damn right I am.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Right? So tired of this bullcrap. They want to start pointing fingers, point them at Subaru for piss poor QA or whatever it is that is causing failure. At my first one, they brought up that, I "must" drive hard if I'm worn through a 2nd set of tires. ( Heheheh it was actually my third... LOL) But that's totally irrelevant. They couldn't pull crap from the blackbox. I'd like to see what they CAN actually pull, just because I have no doubt some service depts make crap up. I'm with you on the "bitter" part. Seriously? I'm sick of this garbage. It's really hard to enjoy the car anymore, everytime I drive it I'm worried something is going to break and I'll be without a car for another week or two while the dealer gets the warranty/rental approved. It's just insane. I should've bought a fricken miata.... Just didn't want to be the weird guy who keeps accumulating them. :D But they're soooo fun!

The coil was some unrelated problem. The fuse block and harness was part of the accident. Fuse box got hit so it needed replacement along with the attached harness.

My warranty is 7 yrs, 100,000 miles. I grabbed the extension when I bought the car since I didn't plan to mod it much.

Honestly, I'm still on the fence about selling it and buying an E92 M3. I mean, if it's going to be in the shop as often as a 400+HP BMW, then I may as well be driving one.


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I had a blown motor a little less than 2 years ago. Similar symptoms to what's been posted here. Here's my info:

What failed (if you know) - They had just replaced the cam gear because of a CEL. I imagine it was faulty work somewhere during the replacement process
Mileage - 800
How it failed - Heard a clanking type sound and then the motor started failing to maintain idle and lost almost all power
Circumstances when it went out- Was driving it home the day I picked it up after the initial warranty work on the cam gear. Almost immediately after the noise started, it went boom
Results of warranty claim? - Replaced long block motor and gave me some compensation but that's all I'm legally allowed to say :) Current motor has over 20k miles on it and has been fine (knock on wood)
And of course... modifications to the car, your use of the car - Bone Stock
Last oil change - Only 800 miles so initial fill from factory
List of services performed, IE, recent reflash etc. Cam Gear replaced, ECU reflashed

Genius.

So how does one have a con rod let go and put a hole through the block and NOT have a ton of metal shavings/bits in the engine?

Anyway... Hope this turns out well for you.

Lol second engine now, had it for one week. Never took it over 4000 rpms. Blew yesterday, they think it threw a rod. So fuckin annoyed. Waiting for another rep to come in.

Hahahahaha BRAVO subaru is all I have to say here....
Thanks everyone for the posts, keep them coming. Sorry to have been absent for so long. Car is in the shop still. Got it back, CEL the moment it left the dealer. Gave it back to them a few days later, since then it's been apart and back together repeatedly, toyota master tech doesn't know what's wrong with it, they're now taking the heads apart. (Which I believe come from Subaru assembled?) What still makes me laugh is the fact that it didn't throw a code for a rod clanging around but it throws them for just about ANYTHING else from bad gas, to a problem in the heads, which, if I'm honest I couldn't even feel, the car was running fine. Also, what code can a car throw that Toyota doesn't know what it is? Isn't the the ENTIRE PURPOSE of a DTC is to help with trouble shooting? They won't tell me much except something out of balance. Likely valvetrain. Which I don't care about, because my dealer is being awesome and is on top of it. I have started the Lemon process internally through Toyota channels, since I have too many miles toqualify for state. If that doesn't work, (they should, they have to have spent the value of the car on rentals, parts, labor by now.) Then I will go to arbitration. If THAT doesn't work... I'll just pray they fix the car right.

I'm totally with you! Considering numerous other nightmare projects one of which is a 540i. (e92 isn't reallly in my $ range :P) Wish I had the cash actually, because I'd love to do the renegade hybrids LSx into a Boxster S swap. Reliable, under 20k, absurdly quick MR car with amazing handling, good brakes already, close ratio gears etc.

That quote about the car being driven hard because there was metal in the engine cracks me up. I mean geez do you think there might be metal in the engine because there was a problem in the engine, which is made full of metal? This is sort of scary. I used to FLOG my GTO with it's 'merican V8 and it NEVER skipped a beat. I've also flogged RSX-S's, S2000s, VW 1.8T Jetta, and 5 MX-5s and none have EVER had a single issue with the engine. If you can't drive a car that develops power about 4k hard what good is it?

And i thought rotary engine was unreliable...

Just bringing a bit of real world statistics into this thread. Please take a look at the engine failure rate of top manufacturers in the link before you set expectations of a engine that should never fail.

As a real example I have located a study of engine failure rates among the major brands done by a large warranty provider in the UK. Honda leads the pack with the fewest 1 in 344. Imagine if FA20 has 1 in 100 engines fail (which is actually pretty good) and a portion of those people posted on these boards because they are unhappy. Would you be able to gain any accurate stats about engine failure rates? I doubt it. This is why manufacturers provide warranties.

http://www.warrantydirect.co.uk/press269.html

While I appreciate the stats posted (seriously, it puts it into perspective), its not so much how or why the motor fails, but how the manufacturer fixes it; or in some cases, how they blame the customer.

One thing we should track on this thread is if you had an engine worked on and then had it blow.
I talked to a local engine builder that had two FA20s on his workstands in his shop.

He said that he had never seen an engine with so much sealant applied by the factory.
He said that if he ever budgets a complete rebuild on one he needs to double the time required to cleanup all of the sealant and get it off the block/parts.

So one of my theories is that when the dealerships perform work on these engines they do not use due diligence in getting every tiny piece of sealant out of the block.
One tiny piece of silicone is all that is required to starve a rod bearing of oil.

I see too many of these "My engine blew X miles after the dealer replaced Y!"

It would be helpful if a definition of "engine failure" was included in that article.
Do they mean anything that fails and causes the engine to stop operating is an engine failure. ..Is a failed ECU or a fault requiring a complete engine removal and dis-assembly counted the same ?

"1 in 13 MG Rover motors failed in the past year, while 1 in 27 Audi owners had issues with theirs."
"motors failed "and "had issues" lumped together..This seems a bit sensational ..chasing clicks so to speak.

2014 BRZ Limited engine failure (Still going through replacement and what not)
I will update this if I learn more.

What failed (if you know) - Rod knock and #4 rod bearing failed.
Mileage - 8000
How it failed - Haven't heard much on this, but my guess is maybe something to do with oil starvation
Circumstances when it went out- Engine stalled at stop sign. Started it back up and heard a knocking above 2000 RPMS. Stalled on idle.
Results of warranty claim? - Replacing of the long block motor
And of course... modifications to the car, your use of the car - Stock other than some LEDs on the interior, daily driver.

UPDATE: What failed. Car is still in the shop.

I would bet that Subaru is in the bottom half of all brands (JD Power), note that Toyota designed/made engines are usually bombproof which is exactly my previous experience with them. Having said that my 86 is purring quite nicely after 25K kms.