Best Turbo kit / kits to stay away from?
 

Hey guys, sorry if this is kind of a noob question, but with so many turbo kits on the market now for the twins, its hard to get a good idea of the best/worst kits without individually reading all of the feedback on every single one, so heres my question:

Is there a generally agreed best turbo kit that is the best bang for the buck? best power gains with base map? best quality? also is there any kits to stay away from?

Also if you have one kit that you wish you would've gone with a different one?

-Edit- Ok so sounds like two of the top contenders are JDL and SPD, anyone have any advice on JDL UEL vs JDL twin scroll vs SPD?

So heres the best quote that arguably sums it up:
JDL / FBM / MAP with gtx28 upgrade if you want quality, and response. ~300whp or so.

PTuning is decent quality but more setup for gt30 frame plus. Highway pullers apply within. 400whp and beyond.

Greddy / SPD are journal bearing. Cool if you're still living in 1996. Pass.

AVO if you're the sort of person that would buy bc coilovers, rota wheels. Journal bearing copied turbo. Pass.

fa20club if you're not put off by the millions of bad feedback. Pass.)

I wouldn't say stay away from any, they're all different and are suited for different drivers and power output. Are you looking for a Turbo with an UEL or EL manifold? Personally Im going to go with a JDL Single Scroll UEL turbo kit, this kit is also available in EL as well and run around $4049 best bang for your buck.

Haven't looked into the advantages of the el or eul manis yet, but I was leaning toward the twin scrolls since I assume it'd spool faster. Looking to go about 250-300hp possibly 350 so I have a feeling internals will be appropriate.

Fa20club is a good kit and in my sig can see the power I make :)

I love my SBD kit for a stockish car. On sale too.

To elaborate; on stock everything but a catback I made 248 on 8 psi with a very linear and smooth power band. After finishing my exhaust out, a 60mm Invidia setup with the N1 catback, the car made 278 on 10psi. After we put the boost contol solenoid and reflashed it, my boost comes in more abruptly and makes it feel stronger in the midrange.

I like the fact this kit is nearly all inclusive and the price makes it a helluva bargain. Soon I'll be on a flex fuel tune with more boost and timing. Hope to get near the 400 mark. This after I get my new clutch.

twin scroll is a waste. IMO Fullblown, JDL, and MAP make the best turbo kits.

Don't try to brainwash this guy too.

OP, stay far, FAR away from FA20Club. If you wanna know why, just do a quick search. I personally would never do business with a vendor who has been banned.

Here we go again!


BTW, stay far FAR away from FA20club/TR3 Performance.

Just posting my opinion. I have the fa20club kit and it works great no problems 30,000 miles. I have dyno videos and all just pm me I'll always be around :) good luck with your choice. A lot of kits out there on the market

So since I don't really have access to tuners that Id trust around me, which would be the best/highest base map supplied kit

I'm gonna say this nicely because others won't... You gotta search. Use the sub forum for forced induction. There's a ton of info in there. You will learn who to stay away from, what power you can expect, and other useful stuff.

@jamesm will do you a really nice reliable/powerful remote tune. I call him the Wizard.

You can read reviews in the vendor review section to find out which kits to stay away from.

Quality kits are FBM and JDL.

You either are dumb as a rock or are tonis cousin.

Its been pretty obvious at this point that the only people toni treats right are locals, pretty much for the purpose of having internet advertising to draw in new suckers, and yet here you are trying to get another person fucked by him.

Despite that it has been demonstrated he has went through a name change himself in the middle of his 10 year history, despite that it has been demonstrated his history of pitch tent shops for new platforms that each were met with failure and screwed customers, despite the bankruptcies linked to him, despite that you in person saw what went on with the frs300 car and the shape it was returned in after nearly a year, despite the many threads here from people that received nothing, partial orders, significantly delayed orders (probably to push back timeframes on buyer protections), shit products shown up (the woode thread is the best example since the guy had to pretty much reweld the whole goddamn kit), and god forbid an international buyer purchase a kit those poor souls may as well have put a hungry koala up their ass.

It really boils down to two things, 1) anybody stupid enough to still function with good intentions as mouthpiece for a business that has shown what fa20club/toni/doyen has demonstrated chances are doesn't have the functioning braincells in their head to survive with a 500 hp car, and yet you're still alive and well. 2) A normal person would be ashamed of promoting a scumbag company and yet you continue to do so, a normal person would realize they are part of a con and correct their future actions not to draw others in.

Basically either you have legitimate cognitive issues to the point where acquiring a drivers license and being a functional adult is out of the question, or you are in on it.

I really like the PTUNING, JDL and MAP kits, but I chose SBD because:

1. a tune with electronic boost control is included
2. i only care about flat torque curve, not peak hp numbers
3. i want to keep stock fuel system, stock exhaust, stock washer bottle, headlight washers, and maybe even stock clutch
4. i need to have easy access to the air filter for maintenance - removing the bumper every 3 month would be a pain

So PTUNING kit didn't qualify because it removes washer bottle, MAP kit didn't qualify because it places ait filter inside the bumper. I really considered the JDL kit for some time, but I don't have any local tuners, and JDL doesn't provide ANY basemap. I didn't want to leave my car undriveable after installation until i arrange some remote custom tuning, so i went with SBD. It's not installed yet, waiting for some parts to arrive, planning to do it later this month. I'll do a review after that.

ill elaborate for Lexusb3 so ppl aren't so butthurt...

it is def a good kit for the money, but for the money u better expect to b missing some small stuff that ill need to pick up and once in a while some ppl do get a bad fabled piece, but u can get it replaced (just don't b a prick about it). also this is not his DD so if it needs to go in the shop for tweaks it can. even he will tell u his setup is not the BEST out there, I'm sure @Sportsguy83 beats him on that.

as fas as simple tho just go with FBM, same kit but it's more 1-and-done

It's all good I forgot ppl are still hurt over some old news last year to be honest oh we'll. there still in business and another member purchased a kit so they must be doing something different. Thanks rick

Its not old news because im still without a car and ppl are still getting bunk shit.

K

Why is twin scroll a waste?

I did and have read through several of them, but the best way to cover all bases are to get peoples feedback from members that have already been down this road.

Perfect thanks thats exactly what I was looking for!


And from the feedback sounds like its a good idea to stay away from fa20 kit

Also take a look through each respective kit's 'Owner's Topics' thread to see some common issues you may find with each kit.

Heat in the engine bay as a serious problem has been a theme amongst all front mounted kits (especially if you plan on any kind of track duty). PTuning seems be the only current maker (correct me if I'm wrong) that resolves this problem by location the turbo underneath the car and out of the engine bay. But of course, their kit comes with it's own concerns as well.

**I do not have any of these kits, but I try to keep up with the 'goings on' for a few of the kits I'm interested in down the road.**

The AVO kit also puts the turbo under the car and is relatively low cost. If you buy it from certain shops they will include base maps for it. The AVO/PTuning kits do not require you remove the oil pan either which is a plus.

I went with the JDL based on price, quality, and turbo flexibility. I really like the PTuning kit because of the placement for heat and weight placement, but not the long IC piping and the cost is high.

Basemap didn't matter for me, as long as you are on stock injectors you can drive to a tuner, just stay out of the boost. I would never just rely on a tuner-supplied base map with this car, you really need a decent custom tune.

Some of the kits require you remove the front crash beam or modify it. MAP includes a new bumper bar. Greddy/SPD require a lot of cutting or removal. JDL requires you cut two small square sections out. Revolutions, PTuning, AVO leave it intact.

From what I understand the placement of the turbo on the AVO kit is still within the skid plate between the engine/radiator area, right? Still traps heat more than placing the turbo in the trans tunnel, but certainly doesn't create the same level of concern with soak in the engine bay (melting fans).

Also, while I do not have experience with any of these kits, A theme I have noticed is people who have not experienced the @ptuning kit critiquing the length of the I/C piping, while PTuning themselves have stood by the design and expressed that they have no concerns that the design extends the boost threshold or transient response with use of "long" I/C piping, and have also shared that, based on their experience with turbochargers and other platforms, the open and free-flowing entry and exit of gases to & from the system (intake air & exhaust gas) plays a larger role in performance than I/C piping length. I have also yet to see an owner of the kit complain or comment on any lack of proper response or seen any data that would confirm that the design delays/hinders turbo spool/response.

I understand if the aesthetics of longer I/C piping is a turn off, but it seems that many people write the design off as 'not-ideal' for performance reasons (spool/response) with no data or experience to back up the notion, and in turn share this view as if this is actually the case. At best, this is an appeal to probability, but really lacks any evidence or data. If find this misleading to those seeking impartial* opinions.

I'm not pointing a finger at you for this, I'm just sharing the observation, as I have seen this happen quite a few times.

*Obviously, almost everyone on this forum's opinion will be partial to some extent. We're all human.

For most people's requirements a nice sized turbo will spool very quickly and still provide a lot of room for top end power. To me using a twin scroll is just a bling factor and more of hey look at my car I have a twin scroll kit. Plus our engine bay is already cramped as it is. One more thing, beware the SPD kit will require you to heavily modify or even remove the cars crash beam. If this is your daily, I would highly consider that fact into your decision. Other then this, the kit is a great kit and at its price, holly smokes a very good deal.

Yes, you will need to notch your crash beam for the intercooler, or remove it entirely with the SPD or Greddy Turbo Kits.


It appears the Drift Armor Bar would likely fit, if you like this option. (Though we need to test to confirm.)


http://driftarmor.com/Scion_FRS_Drift_Bar.html


We may re-route the intercooler piping in the future (offer two flavors of the piping in essence), but the amazingly fast boost response makes the car so much fun to drive off idle. There's a reason the intercooler and piping was engineered for this location.

Neck snapping response, that you won't get re-routing the intercooler and extending the piping length.

It's a trade off either way, and the customer has to decide what sort of driving experience they want.


For a stock motor, stock fuel system FT86 looking for broadest power band and boost response, this kit is a blast and targeted for you.

Yup I understand why the ic piping is done this way. But people need to be aware of this. Btw I really like your kit. Good job and what a price.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

What helped me was lurking on the forums for quite some time. It's still helping me now. Basically I listed a few questions I would ask myself about the shop and kit being offered:
1. Does it fit your budget. There are some awesome kits out there, but if it's too expensive for your tastes, don't do it.
2. Is the kit a complete kit? Or do I need to add bits on for extra?
3. Do I need to do any kind of cutting to the crash bar? (Important; I don't want to comprise structural safety)
4. Has the shop been successful on other platforms?
5. Could you buy the kit from the shop and install it and have it tuned by them as well? (Like FBM or PTuning)
6. Think of all the added things you will need; maybe upgraded radiator, oil cooler is a must, gauges? OBII reader for logs? Vented hood for cooling?

All these questions that are answered without a doubt by the turbo kit creator is probably a good fit for you.

These are good questions. Also can you afford to buy a new engine if god for bid something bad happens. Most people don't think about that. Granted if done right, the chances are low, but they are still there.

Inherent risk of modding cars and hopefully you're smart enough to know it. Don't mod your car if you can't afford to fix it if it breaks.

OP, are you gonna DIY or have a shop do your work?

Common sense yes, but you be surprised people just ignore that fact.

fullbown, great quality, no cutting, very complete, lots of power potential. in my OPINION the best customer service.


jdl, GREAT quality, some cutting, good price, great power potential


SBD, best bang for buck, some cutting, requires more stuff to make big power


avo, cheapish, limited on power capability


fa20, you'll never get all your pieces.

I think there's an old proverb when it comes to car modding big things like the engine...budget yourself to a set amount, then expect to spend 1.5x that much.

I am only speaking from my experience on the WRX which has very short IC piping with a TMIC or really long piping with a FMIC, and I have used both. The size of turbo has way more to do with response than IC piping length, at 4K RPM it takes almost no time to pressurize the piping with a smaller turbo. With the same turbo on my WRX and a small FMIC and associated piping there was a measurable transient response difference of maybe 150-200RPM. but I was using the car for autocross which is kind of a worst case scenario. I went to an AWIC on top in the next iteration.

I was speaking more in a sense of the size of the turbo as a constant. Given the same turbo, according to what PTuning has claimed from their experience (if I recall correctly from previous threads), how easily you allow gases to enter and exit the system (intake and exhaust routing) plays a greater role in boost performance than the length of the charge pipes.

This may be a silly / obvious questions, but: the discussion in response to the original question -- FI of all stripes -- seems to be focused on turbo only. Is that because most folks are dissatisfied with the relative lack of power increase potential on the available SC systems? Is daily / driving fun and excitement just "better" with the available turbo systems vs. the SC systems? I'm personally going back and forth between turbo and SC, trying to stay focused on my desires for retaining character, primarily a DD, reliability, best out-of-the-box package, heat management, scalability, etc., etc.


Anyway, not trying to turn this into an unwanted turbo vs. SC Q&A thread, just curious why the SCs don't seem to be getting much love at this point.

my turbo can make 280whp on low boost 91 and be very tame or make 450whp/400tq on high boost e85. Options. That's why I didn't SC. But lets stay on topic.

I call BS, 450whp AND 400wtq... More like 350wtq

sorry, 461whp/393wtq but this was also on a MBC

Split the difference (350>393>450), and call it a day. :cheers:

And I thought Toni was stupid...jeezus

OP: If you want to avoid bs, stay far away from FA20...read up on some of the horror stories (there is a reason they are BANNED from this site), that is all I have to say