WRX -> FR-S?
 

Hey,

Currently drive a 2013 WRX 5dr SWP. The hatch is super practical, the AWD is definitely nice in low traction, and the power/torque is awesome (I came from a Civic ...)

However, the fuel economy is .... worse than I thought. Not even driving it aggressively, I can only manage a 12.5-13L/100km. It didn't really matter since I didn't use to drive far (the first year I've only put on 15k km on it) but pretty soon I will need to do a 80km/day commute.

The other day there was a Scion dealership so I popped in to test drive an FR-S 6MT.

My thoughts as follows:
-The seats were great. Comfier than the WRX's.
-The blindspot visibility is kinda sucky. Not fair to compare to a 5dr hatch.
-Gearbox felt AWESOME. In comparison, WRX feels rubbery and super long throws (a short shift kit is typically recommended)
-The lack of power/torque was surprisingly OK. It was obviously slower but not painfully such. I went WOT on an onramp and it FELT like I was going much faster (much closer to the ground). So that's good.
-FR-S is a lot louder, engine didn't feel as smooth, a lot more NVH. Not that I mind, but I was surprised how much quieter/smoother the WRX felt.

So if I decide to move forward with this, I'll gain:

-fun to drive-ness, the WRX was much faster but not as exciting/precise
-fuel economy: if I can squeeze 9L/100km out of the FR-S; I can potentially save $75-100/mo in fuel costs. That's significant!
-should be a lower monthly payment

I'll lose:

-speed/power: not a huge deal ... With the WRX, I get to 140km/hr way too easily, and that's a huge fine. Not worth the fear. And it's not like the FR-S is slow by any means.
-AWD. Hm. How does the FR-S do in the snow with good winter tires? How about an incline?
-Practicality. I rarely carry more than one other passenger. I rarely utilize the entire hatch space, though it's nice to know it's there. I suppose I can always borrow my parent's SUV if I ever needed the space ...

Decisions decisions ... I'd love to have both, but don't have the budget nor the space for that.

Would love your thoughts. Has anyone come from a turbocharged AWD hatch and never looked back?

Traded in a 2004 lightly modded WRX for my 2013 BRZ. I'll admit some buyer's remorse this past, harsh winter. But overall I have no regrets. I also pay slightly lower insurance premiums.

I'd trade ya

Not quite as new as your wrx. But I came from my 90 eclipse awd hatch. As fun as the car was, I honestly have more fun in the frs. After building every piece I could on the eclipse, it's too much power for normal street driving. So, I retired to 95% track and 5% street. Only thing I miss in dailying the eclipse is the sound of the turbo and bov.

I switched from an STI hatch. In my opinion, if you don't need the practicality of the WRX, you'll have more fun in the FR-S.

Lightweight + RWD = :wub:

There are definitely times when having my WRX hatch again would be useful. I need to get a new rolling garbage bin from Lowe's. It's only about five miles away, but there's no way I can fit it in my car. I'm going to have to rent one of their trucks to drive a garbage can for five miles.

If I had my choice, I'd have my twin and a Tacoma. Best of both worlds.

You can weigh your needs better than any of us. I feel like if you'll be dealing with snow and harsh driving conditions often, then stick with the WRX. A little bit of fun every now and then isn't worth daily headaches and inconveniences.

Regarding snow tires and rear-wheel drive:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/boot/lon...?click=main_sr

"We blew $700 on a set of Michelin winter tires that, in conjunction with the electronic stability control, worked so well that we occasionally wondered why anyone feels the need for all-wheel drive. But mostly, we shut off the electronic nannies and drove the BRZ through the snow as it was made to be driven—cocked sideways, spitting huge roostertails of snow and sand. Sure, it’s adolescent behavior, but it’s also damn fun. To say we’ve rekindled our love for the Subaru is an understatement. Few cars can make a middle-aged man feel like a kid, and the ones that do should be cherished."

:burnrubber:

Well, I live in Chicago where we had one of the worst winters for snow in its history. I drove the FR-S all winter with snow tires on it (GOOD ONES mind you) and never once had an issue. I drove from Iowa City to Chicago (3 1/2 hours - 4 hrs) through a snow storm and didn't have a single issue. I would say that I am very very impressed with snow handling with snow tires. It does act as a snow plow on occasion (i.e. when there is 12 inches of snow on the ground) but I still had no issue getting through it. Oh, also, I wasn't going on many inclines and those I did, I don't recall having an issue.

I slapped a set of wrg3 (nokian all weather tire) on it and have had zero issues with a northern alberta winter. And I can get 6 l/100 doing 80km/hour. Average is closer to 8 with a mix of city/highway and some spirited driving. With some creative packing its amazing what fits in the car when your alone.

Edit: the nannies make this car so easy to drive in bad weather its not even funny. no wonder so many crash when they disable them, false sense of driving ability!

Sounds like the only downside for you would be winter driving, budget for good snow tires on a cheap set of wheels seems to be the way to go.

The Toyobaru is surprisingly practical for storage with the rear seat folded down, takes me about five minutes to load up my roadbike and a traveling stuff for the weekend. Only downside is fitting four people is a pain, definitely possible but you need patient friends.

That actually works better by folding the seat down as well. You can stack them in the back like firewood.

Fuel shouldn't be that high. Was it a brand new car? I'm still breaking in the car, currently at around 900k but fuel averages around 10ish L /100km. for city driving.

But I don't rev the shit of the car though as I still have to maintain less than 4000 rpm.

Getting in and out of the car is a pain especially if you try to be careful not to kick and dirty the lower door panel. But the reward is super low seating of course.

I don't know what those fuel economy numbers are in Freedom Units, but a FR-S isn't going to be significantly better than a WRX when it comes to fuel economy. You'll definitely save a few bucks, but I don't know if it's worth the depreciation/trade in hit with your WRX. My last tank averaged 28mpg (or whatever that is in metric) which is nothing spectacular.

You'll have to consider that into your "savings" as well. If you lose 3000 bucks on your WRX to save a few dollars each month, you'll need to drive your FR-S for 50 years to break even.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=13L%2F100km+to+mpg

:cheers:

Have you done the cost of ownership math? I'm guessing you did not.

Car payment - lease vs buy
Insurance - each car
Fuel economy - your commute or miles per month avg at today's gas prices
Service - oil, filters, tire rotation, etc.

Excel is your friend.

Wow, thanks for all the replies. Great feedback, awesome community. Think I'm gonna enjoy my time here! :thanks:

Awesome! Yeah, I don't expect winter to be as drama-free as I had I had with my WRX, but hey - I'm up for a challenge! Insurance premiums are slightly lower with the FR-S with me too!

Haha thanks but the car's not mine. TDI ... now that's something else to consider! HPFP scares though...

DSM! That thing must’ve been a beast. Well my WRX is very close to stock (just stage1 tune), so it’s nowhere as close as the monster you drove. But it’s great to hear how the 86 is more fun!

Great to hear! This is exactly the thing I wanna hear. Light weight and RWD is exactly what feels like makes it more fun. The WRX was “drama-free”. You mash the pedal, it goes like a bat out of hell. But it’s surprisingly quiet (not compared to a luxo brand, but way less “raw” than the FR-S).

I'd love to keep both the WRX and FR-S. FR-S summer car, WRX winter car and cargo/people hauler. But I don't have the budget/space for that.

Eventually I’m thinking my gf can pick up an SUV for her ride. Until then I can always borrow my parent’s SUV. Luckily I don’t use the hatch space THAT often.

I originally got the WRX (over the FR-S/GTI) because my previous Civic sucked in the snow. But I’m willing to bet it’s the crappy Falken “performance” winter tires. The FR-S will have LSD and also electronic assists like traction control which my Civic didn't. Toronto only really has 4-5 bad snow storms each winter, and they’re generally plowed pretty quickly. I think I’m gonna weigh fun to drive-ness and fuel economy 85% of the year over the 4-5x/year I get stuck.

Great! Definitely will be investing in quality snow tires. I actually wonder if my set from the WRX will suffice. Same bolt pattern, just a bit more sidewall than it should be (205/60R16). Gives it a bit more ground clearance as long as it fits!

I’m actually excited to take on the challenge that’s snow driving in a lightweight RWD car.

Wow, if you’re OK with it in N.Alberta weather, I’ll be fine in mild Toronto! And 8L/100km is great! This car sounds better and better. Yeah, I don't think I'd take off the electronic nannies. I never once turned them off on the WRX.

I always budget for good tires and separate set of wheels for winter. Glad to hear it’s practical for storage! And I don’t have friends, bhahaha…. 99% of the time it’s just the gf and I. If people wanna ride in my car, they damn well be patient enough to stuff in the back seats lmao.

:lol:

My WRX? It has 15 000km on it right now. I’ve tracked every single KM driven using fuelly: http://www.fuelly.com/driver/daftkow/wrx/ OK, it’s actually 12.1L/100km … but that’s still pretty brutal. Especially since I don't hit boost often.

10L/100km is surprisingly bad for the FR-S ....

I apologize I offended you with my socialist units. :bonk:

12L/100km is 19.6mpg. If I manage 26-28mpg with the FR-S, that means a significant savings monthly in fuel costs, considering I will be driving 80km - sorry, 50miles DAILY.

As for the depreciation, I don’t have to worry because I’m only leasing the WRX (looking to get someone to take over the lease) and will plan to lease the FR-S. So right away I’ll be better off, especially since the monthly payments of the FR-S will be lower.

Why do you guess that? Saving on monthly costs/cashflow is the main reason I started looking at the new car. I’m currently leasing the WRX, and I plan on leasing the FR-S. Yes yes I know leasing is more expensive (in the big picture) but I am willing to pay the premium to only have to pay the depreciation. I’m not sure whether I want to keep the car long term - so I’d rather have the peace of mind. Anyway, it’s a personal choice that I’ve thought about long and hard.

Lease payment: $450 (WRX) vs $375-400 (FR-S)
Insurance: $250 (WRX) vs $230 (FR-S)
FE: 12L/100km (WRX) vs 9L/100km (FR-S). I drive 80km/day * 20 workdays/mo = 1600km/mo. 1600km/mo * (savings of) 3L/100km = 48L/mo. 91oct is about $1.5/L around these parts so that’s $72/mo of savings. If I can squeeze 8L/100km on the FR-S that nets a savings of $96/mo.

Obviously these are quite optimistic numbers. Worst case scenario I’ll be “the same”. I’ll be losing a but though, because the WRX is more expensive here in Canada than the FR-S. Best case scenario, I’d save ~$150/mo, which is small but significant.

The obviously financially responsible thing to do is to get out of the WRX's lease and stuff myself in something like a Honda Fit/Toyota Yaris. But RWD fun to drive-ness! lmao.

Thanks again for all the feedback, much appreciated!

I still have the dsm. I "retired" from modding it anymore for now so I can get some basics on the frs lol. But yea, it's a blast to drive. Honestly it's just too much power for every day driving. Not to mention if the turbo spools up it gets worse mpg than my lifted full size truck lol.

The good news is, next year I don't have to keep emissions on it anymore. Score one for it.

I've never owned a car with over 200hp, so I may not be right to say this. But I prefer the FT86 over any turbo'd car mainly because I can push my car to the limits on the street without breaking any laws. For example, I can take it to the redline and not be going over the speed limit on most roads. Sure, the limits of the BRZ are lower than the WRX, but taking a car to its limits is really what makes driving the most fun in my opinion.

Another reason I chose the BRZ is because I'm not ready for anything over 200hp. I just started autocross, and I think it is best for a newb like me to start out with a low-class vehicle. However, I would argue that the FT86 is at the top of its class.

Furthermore, someday when I'm ready for more power I'll add a turbo or supercharger (and any necessary complimentary mods) and give my car a tune :)

Now here's a reservation. The BRZ is a tiny car. Not as tiny as the S2K or Miata, but you are going to have a bad time if you want to take a road trip with more than 1 passenger in a FT86. In fact, it would be nearly impossible. This is definitely not as practical as a hatchback like the WRX, but if this tiny coupe fits your lifestyle, then go for it :thumbsup:

OP, I have a 2012 SPW WRX. In my opinion of the WRX, the FRS comes nothing close to the power and practicality of the WRX. The WRX can go in the snow, sand, dirt, street, gravel, puddles and god damn it, even on frozen lakes. Like you said, the throws on the shifter are long and having a short shifter is day and night difference. Having Blizzaks on the WRX is like having super glue on paper. I am from Alaska and I tell you what, I wouldn't trade my WRX for a BRZ/FRS up here because of its practicality.

Now, however, from my experience driving a BRZ, I can say that the shifting is more notchy and to the point. It is much better then the WRX by far (unless you get a short shifter and the bushings). Sitting low to the ground is nice and the seats are comfortable. The clutch is light compared to the WRX and the interior is meh. There is no arm rest which I need as I take travel a lot. The stereo system sucks as much as the WRX. Yes, you can redline the crap out of it but it will not produce as much acceleration or the joy of boosting in the WRX. You will not win drag races nor will you have the practicality that a hatch/sedan brings. You will however, gain a little smile on your face when your sitting in one and driving down the road.

And that is why I am gonna buy myself a BRZ once I get back from deployment. I need that "something" in my life.

On paper, a WRX and FRS might be close, but that fuel economy is when driving like a grandma. That`s shifting super early before the turbo spools. Once it does, goodbye fuel. I live in a pretty small city so no major traffic, but my daily drive is usually with a few stop and a decent hill and I can average around 8-8.5l /100km in the town. Highway I usually drive 110-115 and get under around 7. So pretty sure you should see some better numbers then the WRX.

You should think about getting a tune to lean out the pig rich OEM tune Subaru throws on their cars. Most of my AWD friends have gained about 10-20% mpg but getting a good tune on the car.

Re. gas mileage, if you want some real-world experience:

- In my STI hatch, I averaged 19-20 mpg.
- In my FR-S, I averaged 25-26 mpg on the same route.

I doubt that's going to be enough of a difference to justify the cost of switching, but there's some data for you.

I currently have a 2007 WRX sedan and a 13 BRZ. I drive a lot with work and I have come to a few conclusions. These are only my opinions
1 The BRZ is way more fun to drive
2 The WRX is far more comfortable on long drives
3 The BRZ gets way better fuel efficiency 32mpg BRZ and 19 WRX. Averages
4 Significantly less power in the BRZ

Every time I go out I take the BRZ because its a lot more fun, unless I am carrying more then one passenger

I use to own a 2004 WRX, with 321WHP, protuned. Average MPG was around 17-21 depending on my driving habits. For my '13 FRS I'm about at 27-30 MPG to and from work. From VA-NJ which is about 6 hours all highway it's about 31 with no traffic. This past winter I had the stock tires on it and it wasn't pretty, that was the only time I was missing my subie. Other than that and the crickets, I love the car.

another 86 vs. wrx thread?

Polar opposites, how does this keep happening? You would think the OP would have at least said BRZ.

This almost exactly what I did 07 WRX to BRZ. I honestly don't really even miss the power of the WRX. On e85 I'm almost trapping the same speed at the 1/4 actually in my BRZ 96 vs 98 mph anyways. Its that illusion of low end torque that makes the WRX feel much faster but it had no top end power. WRX handles way worse at autoX not even close there.

Gas mileage for me:

WRX got 19 city/26 highway.
BRZ gets 27 city/32 highway.

No change in insurance.

Yea I live in Chicago as well- 82 inches in total of snow this year. I had all season tires on my FRS. I had no issues.

I drive a Cobb tuned 2011 WRX hatch and an FR-S. Best of both worlds.

Both are very fun but polar opposites. The WRX feels cushy by comparison.

Sometimes I wish the FR-S had the WRX power.

I had an '06 STi, and while the power was a lot of fun I really love driving the FR-S much more. Gas milage is way better for me too. People still always seem to want to race though...

I went from this (2005 WRX):


http://i.imgur.com/nqzPsBc.jpg


To this for about 11 months (2013 FR-S):


http://i.imgur.com/5nvnDrt.jpg


To this, which I've had for about 10 or 11 months now (2013 STi):


http://i.imgur.com/tABMgxJ.jpg?1




Probably the greatest conclusion I can draw is this:


The WRX and STi are essentially tuned versions of Subaru's economy platform. It's evolved over the years, but it is still just a souped up Impreza. Indeed that is part of the WRX's and STi's charm. An economy car with over 300HP, AWD, 4pot brembos, tight suspension, front, rear, and central diffs... it's almost a car that shouldn't even exist. In a lot of ways the STi is an absurdity, but here it is. A platform that's proved incredibly popular for over 15 years at this point.


The 86 was designed from the ground up to be a sports car, and you will notice this all over the place. Simple things like the seating position is a huge nod to this design. It's a cheap sports car, and I have my issues with some build quality concerns (minor gripes colored by my own experiences), but it's designed as a sports car from the ground up. Going from a WRX/STi, you may or may not notice those design subtleties, but once you go back you do notice their absence.


Thankfully, 15lbs of factory boost and a 3rd gear scream onto the 202 through a wide and lengthy onramp help make up for those absences :)


I love my STi, I preferred driving my FR-S. If just barely.


Both are fantastic.

hello,

i came from 13' STi limited sedan to my BRZ now and I love it! I've only had my STi for a year before I switched to BRZ due to fuel economy...STi is worse than WRX...surprisingly i was constantly getting 23~24mpg avg...one time i got it up to 33.6 mpg lol but tat's tat. definitely power is not there and but BRZ feels fast and doesn't feel all THAT slow. I like it's nimbleness, balance and handling. Sure i miss the turbo rush and torque, but if I can get way better mpg and superb handling then I'll take that over power feel any day. Plus, this car is super cheap to mod compared to my STi lol. Get the car. Just chiming in OP.

I drove my buddies 2012 WRX 5-door while he was on a cruise for a week (he tossed me the keys). Coming from an anemic 160hp tC to this turbocharged AWD monster, I barely managed 150 miles on a full tank of gas (~$60). An absolute blast to drive, but damn it's a piggy.

Lean the passenger seat all the way back and shove the garbage can in. As long as it's like 64 gallons or less, I think it will fit.

I have both BRZ and 450whp STI.

Everytime I drive the sti, it has a dead battery.

That should say something.

You need a better battery?

I went from this: http://imageshack.com/a/img43/340/2mxh.jpg

To this: http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...pspq35zitq.jpg

WRX had 394whp. The speed was a lot of fun on wide open straights. Yes it could take corners but it was so incommunicative that you never knew when you were at the limit and would lose it. Not a car I'd ever want to track.

Even with the power difference I very much prefer 86 on my commute. Now, it would be fun to have more power in the 86 one day :)

lol, that too.

I find myself driving the brz more and neglecting the sti :cry:

If you drive a 2012+ Impreza and then a FR-S/BRZ back to back you'll notice that they are very similar inside...even down to the extra little window in the front. Of course there are some differences, mainly seats and a few specific interior bits, but the overall feel is similar. The same goes for the new WRX/STi compared to the 2012+ Impreza/Forester/Crosstrek, they feel very similar inside. After all, they are all loosely based on the same platform and Subaru loves to slap the same parts into every single car they make.

Parts bin engineering is actually a good thing. I see few downsides for the consumer and the automaker when you can achieve excellent results from a part that's already developed and proven. Having common models share these parts with a lower volume model like our cars makes keeping these cars far far easier post warranty.

I've owned a car that didn't share too many parts and the only models it shared parts with...were rarer. I loved the car but it sucked every single time a 25+ year old part quit. Parts were uncommon making it not only expensive but the wait times grounded the car on average 2 weeks each time. Had my old car benefited from parts bin engineering with common stuff like Corollas and Camrys, I'd probably would've kept it as a weekend vehicle as I'd keep more money and the car would've been driven a lot more.