When does driving MT get "fun"
 

Just drive through stop & go traffic, 401, coming back from Waterloo... Uphill, constant stopping... ugh.

I've been driving MT for just under a week now & it's already bugging me. Is it just because I'm new or what? I hate having the constant fear of roll back, the fear of stalling and the repetition of shifting from N to 1 to 2...

So... what exactly does MT offer over Auto? I am about 90% certain I will ask to switch transmission on my FRS at this point.

Once you are good at it, it will be fun almost all the time. At first, like now, it will only be fun on nice open roads. I'd say give it at least 2 months, and if you still don't like it after that, maybe it's not for you.

I think it's because you are new. I never think about rollback or stalling or repetition, I just do it.

If you don't like it, there aren't many advantages. Liking it is probably one of the biggest advantages, though on the FR-S the superior gearing is also something to enjoy as well, though it may cost you in fuel mileage.

Jeff

Like Jeff mentioned you'll be a bit fearful for a bit (practice makes perfect); however, once you've got the hang of it and downshifting you'll probably wonder why you never had one! Stop and go/daily can get a bit boring; however, once you're good with the changes go find you a nice road to play on and it's GREAT fun!

I drove a MT in traffic from Pasadena to Santa Monica for 4 yrs. That's 20+ miles each way averaging 15-25mph with frequent stops. If that doesn't drive you crazy.. I don't know what will. This was in an S2000.

Any other time, even long distance hwy driving, I prefer a MT. However, in stop and go LA traffic.. i'd rather shoot myself.

btw.. if you're having trouble on a hill or a steep incline the e-brake is a great tool here. learn how to modulate that. It's not only for drifting!

:word::bonk:

Wait till you get good driving will be more fun and engaging. When you are new you are thinking about it all the time and worried you will mess up that its not fun.

One it becomes 2nd nature its a blast or at least that's how it was with me

Jeff is on the right track for sure.

I'm guessing you simply choose the MT because it was cheaper. Not because you actually wanted to drive stick. Which is all fine and good if thats the reason why (not trying to call you cheap or anything), but you should have probably thought about that a little more.

Put it this way, almost all of the best driving cars in the world are manual only. The new BMW 1 M comes leaping to mind right now. Manual only.

I'm pretty sure the F430 ferrari was also Manual only until Mr.Longoria bought one for his wife Eva and had ferrari custom build an auto for her.

Ben

Lol it's gonna be so interesting for me, I haven't driven at all after I got my M like 3 or 4 years ago. So I'm gonna have to be getting used timing a pass and left turns along with relearning how to park a car on top of learning how to drive a manual. I like challenges though so it's gonna be fun.

Hey, look at all the supporters you've got, all gave you good pointers.

Mentally, you know the hurtle will be over soon, so is the frustration. So stay cool behind the wheel, don't rush yourself, feel the car, and be precise about your motions. Besides, don't think the 6AT option is available to you, so the only way out is to learn it well, the very best that you can do.

Why so many enthusiasts prefer MT? Because we're require to engage with our cars and anticipate road/traffic condition at all times, the car is a out there to execute your instructions precisely in real time, that's fun.
:burnrubber:

To answer the OP question...I think you need to embrace the fact that you are actually driving a car, and you are an integral part of how it is functioning. A manual transmission makes you part of the machine, and gives you a connection to the vehicle that a slush-box will never provide.

Enjoy the driving experience. That should be the primary reason to own a car like this. If it is merely a means to get from point A to point B, any appliance can accomplish the task. You could be pushing the pedals and turning the wheel of the same boring four wheeled toaster that "Joe Normal" next to you at the traffic light uses to carry on with his dreary little life.

You are driving a sports car. Get with the program :thumbup:

mt is REALLY fun, for those that know how to drive and have the full control of the car.

if FUN for you is just put the stick to D and press on the gaz pedal, the you should take de automatic transmission.

i LOVE to drive manual in any condition, its just a game for me that a like to perform and get better. its a challenge for me to not staling and get a perfect start.

where is the challenge to just press the gaz pedale and let the auto transmission to do all the rest of the work?

i suspect you dont really like to drive the car, but you just like to take a ride with your car.

its all about precision and perfection

I taught myself to drive Manual when I was 18 & working at a Mazda dealership on Mazdaspeeds/RX8. The I would nerve buy an auto ever unless the vehicle I really want doesn't have that option. Till this day I drive manual everyday in traffic & etc.

its start to being fun when you mastered the technic of it. when it become natural, not a stressing moment, i have tried to make my little brother to learn driving manual and he was not able. too much stress and pressure, because its not natural for him. for some poeple its just not possible.

I only drive mt. Off road is better with mt even though that wont be the case with the FR-S.

Wow looks like there's alot of love for the MT out there! Thanks for the support everyone.

I'll admit I enjoy driving on open roads, but rush hour traffic really irks me. & Yes, I choose MT because it was cheaper, but also because of all the hype around driving a manual car lol:bonk:

I still have another Couple weeks before the FRS rolls in to decide...

Quick questions for those who drive MT:

1. Whenever I shift gears (especially downshifting) my car jerks like the gears going in really rough. Do I just need to shift quicker? or more gas?

2. How do I control reverse gear? My reverse is pretty darn fast as soon as I release the clutch. ATM I'm just riding the clutch - but I'm guessing that's bad?

Thanks

Manual is fun for some people, a chore for others. Decide who you are. My wife CAN drive manual (because that's what I buy) but she prefers not to bother. Our big SUV is auto, and zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. But no hate on the auto - my buddy is a huge manual fan but his next car will be auto because his work has him driving in the city all day. Can always get a toy weekend car later...

You match the rpms to where they should be if you were in the gear you're going into. So if you're at 3K in 5th and downshifting to 4th you would rev the gas quickly to get the revs up to 5K or so as you let out the clutch. Do it right and it's as smooth as an auto, with NO jerk. In my old Jetta I can go 5-4-3-4-5 at 90km/hr and it's usually pretty bang on.

Reverse or crawling, I tend to let it out to get motion then put it back to the floor and coast rather than just sit half-way on the clutch.

Hope this helps: as mentioned, when you do reverse gear, release the clutch carefully *without* pressing gas (accelerator). When the clutch bites in gear, release it and let the idling engine speed to gently load and move the car in reverse. If your speed is too fast, press the clutch and brake gently to stop. If the engine bogs down, press a little bit of gas. Otherwise, just gently release the clutch and the car will move slowly, just like that using an automatic transmission. This is especially helpful when the engine is cold with higher idling speed.

Typically, I do not press gas when using reverse gear because I have no need to go fast in reverse. Only press gas in reverse when you absolutely need it.

Very good advice.

For the OP, you will get used to it, and it will become second nature. Also, it's like riding a bike, once you get it, you've got it for life. At least that's been my experience.

OK, off topic but I have to share. I had a Polaris Scrambler 500 with a CVT transmission. It had a top speed of around 65MPH (fast for an ATV). The transmission had an 'override' button on it. Push that button and it would go full speed in reverse! It made for great reverse donuts, and scaring the crap out of your friends.

Personally I find this part of driving stick fun already. you are winning the car over as your driving techniques get better and when the day comes when you are driving smoothly it feels rewarding

Every car is different too so kind of gives them more character in my books

No auto hate tho convenience is understanding but you should deff give the 6MT a shot its good haven't driven the auto yet soon tho

uhh what car are you driving? SHARE

^^ What he said.

I currently drive a 94 tercel 4 speed manual and I find it more fun then when i had a auto tC

To add to what everybody has said:

It becomes even more fun when you have a fun car to drive.

And in the OPs case, obviously once you're comfortable with it.

My Civic has a decent shifter but the clutch is a bit too long and it's difficult to heel and toe. In my old S2000 everything was perfect (as I assume the FRS is going to be) and made it MORE fun to drive.

Once you get the hang of MT it's like breathing. It's really something to know your car, what gear you're in just by the sound of the engine; just by rowing through the gears, holding a conversation and subconsciously knowing what gear you're in and which is next, finally blipping the throttle to rev match the downshift; it's like dancing on the pedals.

There's little joy to driving in stop and go traffic regardless of your transmission. The only you would want in a situation like that is a good radio.

Just stick to it..you'll realize after that mt is the way to go..I was in the same position as you last year with the rsx..didn't hate it but it was frustrating. First day picking up the car was pretty embarrassing. Got to a mall to pick up gf but struggled to leave the Parking lot! Plus Downshifting on manual is soo fun :)

I guess I'll be the one party pooper. Yes, after some time, this will become second nature and fear of things like rolling back and stalling will be gone.

But look, part of why it's more fun is it's more involving. In a way, that's a euphemism for doing more work. If you're spending an hour each way in stop and go traffic, doing more work is going to be more tedious. There's really no way around that. Does it mean it's impossible to live with a manual in excruciating traffic? Of course not. But just because you CAN do something it doesn't automatically mean you'll want to. Hell, if I could get a car with full auto pilot for rush hour, I'd get it, and so would all of you. There is no fun to be had there, you just want to get home with minimum grief.

So as far as I'm concerned, the real litmus test (which I took and ended up with a manual track car and automatic daily driver), is how much of your driving is this kind of commuting and how much is leisure? If you spend a few hours a day on the road, most of it in dense traffic, a lot of it in stop and go congestion, you're going to want an automatic. I know many will disagree but having been one of them, owning manual BMWs for 11 years and surviving traffic just fine (including a semi-weekly commute you're doing while I was at UW), I say this with absolutely no contempt and no intended offense, that this is delusion.

Once again, when the mechanical skill becomes subconsciously natural, driving a manual in traffic can be perfectly fine. But it will NEVER be as easy as an auto. So if this HAS to be your only car, while I think it's a shame (but only because ours is not intended for heavy traffic commuting but mostly strictly fun driving, like on track), in your situation, I wouldn't discount the auto. But I'd honestly recommend getting a 2nd car, like an older diesel Golf or Jetta, just for commuting, and keep the fun car with the fun transmission for fun driving.

so where does something like DSG fit in your neat little argument?

I've been driving stick excursively for 18 years now.

First on your to-do list should be rev-matching. Rev-matching is when you predict what rpm the engine is going to be at when you let the clutch out, and use the gas pedal to manually put the engine at that rpm. Do it right and it eliminates all jerky. You can use it up shifting, but more importantly downshifting.

Next is heel-toe shifting. Heel-toe (which should be renamed rocker footing) is when you rev match like above, but also press the brake. This allows you to down shift smoothly while stopping at the same time. Eventually this becomes second nature.

Once you get those down, practice left foot braking. Left foot braking allows control over weight transfer during maneuvering. It also shaves precious milliseconds off of reaction times. Practice a little, and you can brake as smoothy with your left foot as with your right. I cover the brake with my left foot when moving through traffic on the highway and it feels much safer.

Finally, and you have to be really good and hate your transmission to do this, you can left foot brake AND downshift at the same time by rev matching and not using the clutch. Get it right, and you are lord of the trannys. Get it wrong and I suggest a magnet on your gearbox drain plug.

Give it time.
 

Give it some time. It will become second nature, like its a part of you. The best pce of advice I can give you is do not downshift to slow the vehicle down, that is what brakes are for. When braking have the it nuetral and when you get to the speed that is appopriate for the situation just put it into the gear suitable for that speed. That will eliminate the jerkyness you are currently feeling and preserve your clutch.
Also I am 45 and used to drive auto's until a friend suggested the MT. Well its been 20 years now and I will never go back. Completely takes the fun out of it for me.

Not to tell anyone what to do but this is a bad idea and will kill a typical gearbox way before its time. It's not a matter of being a gearbox god but that modern street car transmissions use synchromesh. Think of it as a clutch on each gear designed to even the speed of the gear and the input shaft. These are relatively fragile but that's fine because they're designed to sync the speed of the input shaft and clutch alone, which have relatively low mass. If you try to shift without the clutch, these little clutches are now having to change the speed of the engine and it's not humanly possible to get the revs 100% right all the time so there will be intense wear on them whenever you do this.

Clutchless shifting is for non-synchro boxes, which, especially in racing applications, have straight cut gears which are very strong and large windows for the dogs to engage - so you have very good odds that even if you're off by 50-100rpm or something, you'll be able to slam it in.

Thanks for the tips everyone... When rev matching, do I:

1. Clutch pedal in
2. Press Gas
3. Down Shift
4. Clutch pedal Out

Or do I press the gas after I switch gears as I let the clutch out?

I think I'll give the MT a shot for a bit longer, but I'll get the FRS in auto just because of traffic + the fact that no1 in my family really drives MT.

MX 6 with KLZE engine swap. I'll send you a text if you wana see it at loo.

Thanks for playing devils advocate ;) I unfortunately can't afford 2 cars (especially not with the insurance rates we pay in the GTA...)

No that's fine, it's just that after enough practice it will be a pretty fluid operation. You'll learn the dynamics of your engine and the ratio spacing of your transmission to get an organic feel for how much you need to rev. All cars are different too, which makes it even more enjoyable since it feels like personality. For instance, I can never shift a DA Integra smoothly because of it's massive flywheel, so by the time I'm ready with the next gear, the engine is still unwinding.

Well the thing is that if I'm the devil's advocate then I'm also the devil. :iono: When I was younger I was of the firm belief that automatics are for old farts who are dead inside, have no interest in cars and just need transportation. But I could only sell myself on that for so long. After a hard day's work or even worse, coming home from some intense physical activity, being stuck in traffic with a manual gets old and I finally realized that you need the right tool for the job.

I think what really changed the way I thought was when I started doing HPDEs and lapping days. At that point I realized that no street car will ever be as good as it could be on track due to mandatory compromises, and no street drive will ever be as fun as a track, also due to mandatory compromises (unless you have no concern for other people's lives).

So with all that in mind, I'm not saying get an auto 86. But you should aim to get a cheapie beater automatic for your commute. You should also get a PO box in Waterloo or ask a friend with a permanent address if you could change your insurance to be there. Insurance rates for KW area and GTA are on different planes of existence.

In regards to downshifting to slow the car down(engine braking) when approaching a stop from let's say 80km an hour, I use the brakes to slow down and kinda pop it into third when I'm on it's appropriate speed and let the clutch off (rpm will be between 2500to3000) so it would aid the brakes then sequentially go to second and first with the same technique. Is this really bad and wears out my clutch a lot?

It wears out your clutch over time, but doesn't wear down your clutch a lot unless you're just letting go immediately. In which case you feel the huge jerk sensation which is the plate hitting your engine.

I personally rev match to make it a smooth transition. For a bunch of manual driving techniques here is helpful tutorial I found on Youtube.

How to Heel and toe, rev match, and double clutch
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcxHi6FlGLo&feature=channel_video_title"]How to Heel and toe, rev match, and double clutch - YouTube[/ame]

Enjoy! :)

I respectfully disagree. In my original scenario switching to a vehicle with AT was paramount to preserving my sanity.

I'm taking a leap of judgement here (apologies ahead of time) but unless you've driven in "LA" traffic you really have no idea. I've driven in Manila and by far you're stopped more times than you're moving so at times I almost prefer the rest. Living in LA.. it's a constant 1-2-stop-1-2 and i've tried many different combinations of shifting strategies to no avail. :mad0259:

MT is fun but sometimes one has to weight their priorities and make a compromise. I'm just glad the AT in this thing doesn't seem to be a sh*tbox.

+1 I even know very seasoned lappers and autocrossers who just use the clutch to rev the motor up. It's especially safe with lower compression or smaller motors, and if you do it soon enough (not quickly, for the reasons jenzan says, just you start the process without letting the motor wind down).

But rev matching is the proper way to do it and like driving manual at all, eventually heel and toe becomes so easy and natural that you do it with zero effort in all daily driving. Your passengers will appreciate it too. You will too if you ever go on the track and start driving near 100%, where lack of revmatching is going to be akin to yanking the handbrake into a turn. At best, it will upset the car.

Haha yeah, and trying to do the 1st gear idle crawl with a big gap ahead will probably get you shot

DSG is sort of half way between the 2. In the simplest form its just a fancy Auto which you can command control over. In my opinion, no user operated clutch means its not really "Manual".

Also, its not really an argument. More like what most companies actually do when they're making "pure drivers cars". The BMW 1 M is comes leaping to mind.

bneale

Audi seems to have no problem winning lemans with your "not really manual" gearbox, i guess that's not a real sports car then..

Using your 2nd foot in no way makes the car more sports like.

The whole point of a manual car is dictating what gear you are in, it's unfortunate that we require a crutch to operate it as such. The clutch is stone age technology. You people really need to start looking ahead.

And yes i said you people.

Fastest around a track? Probably not going to an M/T.
Pure driving car? Probably should have an M/T.

Jeff