Shifting with a manual...
 

I was wondering how you guys stop. I have been off from work and have had more time than usual so I've been looking up basic pointers on the internet. I have always downshifted and then put the car in neutral once I'm in second and approaching the stop. Online, a bunch of sites are saying that this is bad for the engine and transmission. I stop the same way on my motorcycle, but don't go into neutral and shift down to first and stay in first holding the clutch in at a stop.

The other websites are suggesting that you should just shift into neutral and use the brakes, not downshift and engine brake. I do this on side streets, but not when I'm on a road where you are picking up some speed (30+ mph). Other people are saying that this is dangerous if you need to get out of the way. In neutral, if you are moving, you can shift into first anyway, so I don't really see the danger.

Anyway, what do you guys normally do when approaching a stop?

Downshift through the gears to 2nd, neutral at like 10mph, coast to stop. Floor it and leave everyone in the dust. Repeat.

Depends on the situation I guess. Most of the time I'll pop into neutral and use brakes to stop. If I have a "sudden stop" I'll down shift a gear to let the engine help.

To my knowledge on modern transmissions it doesn't matter which one you choose.

I usually downshift and use the gears as a brake for the most part, I have done this since I started and I have never had any premature wearing of the engine or clutch with any of my cars.

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On the bike, I rev match downshift every time I slow down or stop. Also, I always leave it in 1st just in case I need to get out of the way or shoot between two cars to avoid being run over. I've heard tires screeching behind me a couple times, and it's unnerving... So, on the bike I err on the side of safety and leave it in gear, holding the clutch lever. Clutch maintenance is far easier on the bike should it be needed.

In the car, I also rev match and double clutch nearly every downshift. Around town I'm not engine braking at 7k rpm, more like 3-4k at most and it's only as I'm slowing down. So the engine braking being bad for the car IMO, is an extremist point of view. I prefer to maintain speed and momentum, so I will downshift in anticipation of turning, stopping, etc and be in a usable gear at all times. Once stopped, I put the stick in neutral and let the clutch out so I'm not constantly riding the throw out bearing. Clutch maintenance on the car is a much more intensive endeavor, so I like to preserve it as much as is reasonable.

Slightly different logic,

Yeah, I agree with you and this is how I drive and ride my mc, except for the double clutching, that's beyond me right now! Have you driven trucks? I think that's how the big rig guys need to drive.

Since I'm in the break in period on my car, I'm overly paranoid and don't want to hurt it. Shifting to neutral to stop without down shifting just seems weird to me. I do it, but just when I'm going slow and am in a low gear anyway.

I just let the engine slow itself down while in gear. I don't downshift, just let it spool itself down and go into neutral when it's ~ 800 rpm. I don't really get the point of downshifting when stopping? I must be missing something.

You can be in the proper gear for your speed in case you need to get the heck out to avoid a bad situation.

Engine slow itself down to 800 rpm? Are you one of those drivers on a 1 mile stretch of road where it takes you 1/2 a mile to get to the speed limit and the rest of the way you're slowing down for the stop? :slap:

Down shifting while stopping. Down shifting/Engine breaking to aid in slowing the car.

When I need to slow down. I break, press the clutch, and run the gears sequentially down to 2nd, or 1st if its a complete stop.

I only engine break when I absolutely need to. Like "OMG! Dunno if I'm gonna make this one moments".

Brakes only. I keep it in the same gear with clutch in until almost to a stop then neutral if I'm behind a car or right to neutral if I know how far to stop and there isnt anyone to worry about in front of me. Just harder to drop into the right gear in neutral if you need to make a correction. I use to down shift when I was younger but slowly changed to brake only to a stop

For those of you who downshift, you are presumably riding the brakes (even lightly) to flash your brake lights.

So you heel and toe every time you slow down, or don't even bother to rev match? BTW, heel and toeing while lightly pressing on the brakes is a bit more difficult.

I just keep the car in whatever gear I was in and brake. When revs hit 1K, clutch in and stop.

On the car, I flash my brakes. On my bike, I don't use the brakes, just downshift- really bad habit. The only time I have ever felt the rear slip out on my bike was when braking and downshifting. You can definitely flash your brakes with the car without worrying too much about anything bad happening.

Well the motorcycle makes it impossible to double clutch since the gearbox is sequential, but rev matching works great. I've never driven a big rig, but it's a similar principle in the car. Rev matching is a great way to maintain the car's balance in two ways, 1: so you don't feel a surge of deceleration when you let the clutch out (this is really important mid-corner), and 2: so you're in a usable gear at all times.

If you care to know why/how:
Big rigs use a dog box, (similar to many race cars) which means it has big blocky teeth that engage to each gear, no synchros. When downshifting, the input shaft on the transmission needs to be at a higher rpm, but instead it naturally wants to slow down. Synchros work for you by speeding up or slowing down the input shaft (that's the bump you feel in the stick when picking a gear) by using friction, so after the bump, the stick drops right in. With a dog box, however, it'll clash and gnash and won't go into gear until the input and output parts of the transmission are near the same speed.

Here's where double clutching comes into play. If you're downshifting from 4th to 3rd, you use the engine to do what the synchros would do. You first push in the clutch, pause when the stick is in neutral. Let the clutch out. Blip the throttle (rev match). Push the clutch back in, select 3rd, and let the clutch out. What you've just done, is engage the transmission while it's in neutral, and used the engine to speed up the input shaft. Now when you select 3rd, the dog box is at a close enough rpm to drop right into gear, instead of clashing.

Even with a synchro transmission, you'll feel the difference. Since the input shaft is already at the correct "rev matched" speed, the synchro's job is already done. You feel little to no bump in the stick and it just falls into place.

Double clutch:
1: Clutch in, go to neutral
2: Clutch out, rev match
3: Clutch in, select lower gear
4: Clutch out, repeat if necessary or accelerate

Ideally this is done rather quickly while braking, (heel & toe). This is where you brake with the inside of your foot (typically the inside ball), and use the outer edge (or heel) to stab the gas pedal for the rev match blips.

The only point to doing this in a road car is for personal enjoyment,

I rarely downshift when coming to a stop, unless it's over a fairly long distance. I just keep the current gear until the engine reaches "idle" RPM level, then put it in neutral. Downshifting to help you slow down and stop is adding wear and tear to your drivetrain. Brakes are very cheap compared to a clutch replacement, so I prefer using those to slow the vehicle down.

Down shift to first if its a stop sign . coast in neutral if its a red light

▲ I do this alot when I'm coming down the off ramp,
or when im traveling to a know stop.
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Then again I Heel-toe alot aswell.
You don't have to be racing or be belligerent to heel-toe, just fluidly driving.

One thing I never do is hold the clutch in, and coast.
If you're doing that just clutch in, pull out of gear, clutch out.
I don't sit stationary with the clutch disengaged either.

If you don't think its possible to skirt out the way of an imminent incident,
just because you left the clutch disengaged, and trans out of gear.
Your wrong. (That's my opinion)
It would probably bite you anyway.

Reason saying, is that you wouldn't believe how fast you can -clutch in-gear bang-go-.
When you are being aware.
The timing between this and the above is irrational.

Ohh, not to start a war....
...BUT there's NO reason to double clutch.
Double clutch is ignorant. Go look up ignorant.

Keep driving you'll eventually bind/bond, become one with your transmission/car.

There's more than one way to use the gearbox.
Proper technique is, well... proper technique and there's more than one.

I downshift/rev match almost all the time I stop, helps saves on brakes :)

I almost always downshift (with rev matching) to slow down the car. If it's done right, the clutch wear shouldn't be that bad, and it really shouldn't hurt the drivetrain. According to the owner's manual, the version of this car with the automatic transmission is set up to downshift and use engine braking to reduce wear on your brakes and to set the car up for acceleration if needed. If they're setting the car up that way, I can't imagine that using engine braking in the manual is going to cause any undue wear on the drivetrain other than clutch wear.

I do have a bad habit of downshifting without touching the brake that will probably get me rear-ended if I don't stop that. I would love to have a brake light button on the back side of the steering wheel that I could hit to signal the idiot not paying attention behind me that I'm slowing, without having to ride the pedal.

I'm in that boat.

Why? Brake pads are cheap compared to clutch/transmission.

wut am I reading?

For DDing people actually downshift? I don't think I've ever downshifted just driving around town coming up on a stop light.

cost of brakes < cost of transmission. I've always learned to NEVER, EVER let the engine slow you down (not saying that this has anything to do with downshifting). Completely unnecessary wear on the engine. Brake pads are so cheap

Why? If you do it correctly you put close to no wear on your clutch/tranny, thats why.

citation needed *

Why do more work when you can simply press the brakes to slow down? To save on brake pads?

I don't think that's the case. The engine is moving either way, and it's not producing any power. The fuel is off during engine braking so it isn't washing away oil. I don't see why it would cause any extra wear.

I use engine braking all the time, and I'm about to send my first oil sample off to Blackstone. If it comes back telling me there's too much metal in the oil, maybe I'll reconsider.

Wow .you people don't downshift

I enjoy it, it takes almost no effort in doing it. Literally it is just bliping the throttle and letting off the clutch, it comes natural to me that I don't even notice myself doing it.



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Granted just puttin around town or grabbing groceries, I definetly don't see a need to down shift or rev match.

Actually I think you are just making yourself look and sound like a douche when you are rev matching in a parking lot to buy your twinkies and chocolate milk.

For competition driving, you better be down shifting when you need to stay in the power band.

I don't try to downshift or rev match ,I just do

So you do down shift and rev match?

Or you down shift with out rev matching?

Or you don't down shift or rev match?

Rev match my down shift

Downshift properly, no excess wear on clutch.
Also if you are in decel/full engine vacuum, the injectors shut off.
In conclusion, downshifting is better for the environment :cheers:

But seriously, I downshift to 2nd when coming to a light/stop. Stopping from 40-0mph with the car in neutral feels strange to me... I keep the car in gear whenever possible unless I am fully stopped, then N and release clutch to save the throwout bearing

Do you down shift and rev match while you are doin a wheelie?!

I keep in gear (say 6th gear when exiting highway), press clutch in and keep it in gear (6th) until I'm about 30mph, then I usually shift down to 2nd while still holding clutch in just in case I need to accelerate for some reason. Once I'm completely stopped I'll go into 1st and stay there until I'm ready to go. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. I'm essentially just braking with the clutch in, but I do downshift the gears from 6 to 2 as I slow down. No need to let off the clutch and use the engine to slow me down. That's what brakes are for. Lol

I can if I want

So in 6th.. you ride the clutch til it hits 30 mph... then you just drop it in 2nd if you need to?!

If I was doing a wheelie in 6th( pretty pointless except for proving I could do it) I dont see any reason why I wouldnt be able to click down 4 gears while coasting a wheelie

Is engine braking any harder on the motor as compared to aggressive acceleration through the gears? Personally, in DD situations ... i get lazy and downshift a little, but usually like to use the brakes to slow down.

No, I'm far from a slow poke. I just feel like a tool rev matching when coming to a stop. The car is pretty loud when getting on it, so I try to just ease to a stop to avoid annoying people. And like others have said, it feels to me like I'd rather wear the brakes than the engine. It may be harmless to the engine, but idk. :iono: