The Death of the Manual Transmission
 

The author doesn't really want it (read the comments) but says its inevitable.

http://ericpetersautos.com/2014/04/1...-transmission/

Incidentally, the same author LOVES the twins (and loves their AT):

http://ericpetersautos.com/2012/12/1...obaru-brzfr-s/

Excerpt:

"The BRZ (and FR-S) are sports cars. 190 proof, no-nonsense, no BS, real-deal sports cars. Like Miata – only so much better. Low-mounted flat-four boxer engine and 200 hp. Driving dynamics you have to experience to appreciate – after which you will be sorely tempted to sell your oldest daughter to a Saudi sheik – if that’s what it takes to get the $25k or so it takes to acquire one of these things. The best automatic transmission on the market. Yes, a six-speed manual is standard – as it ought to be – but the automatic in this car – anticipatory (and rev-matched) double downshifts, spot-on upshifts – is just as good. Maybe better.

God, I could go on and on...

WHAT’S GOOD

What’s not?
If handling and fun to drive were translated into IQ, this car would rate genius.
No, super genius.
Superbly good six-speed automatic – if you swing that way.
More interior space than Miata.
34 MPG on the highway – with the optional automatic.
No “chick car” issues.

WHAT’S NOT SO GOOD
No convertible – yet.
30 MPG on the highway with the standard manual.
A bit beefy (2,762 lbs. vs. 2,480 for the convertible Miata).
Probable dealer mark-up.

In comparing to the Miata he notes an interesting point:

"If the Sciobaru weighed the same as the Miata, it would smoke the Miata. And the fact is, the Sciobaru ought to weigh less than the Miata – because it (the Sciobaru) is a hardtop coupe and hardtops usually weigh less than convertibles – because they don’t need the extra body reinforcement to make up for the loss of roof structure.

Mazda’s ace in the hole, despite the Miata being an older design (and arguably, a less sexy design) is that it’s – somehow, miraculously – not a fatty.

So how come the Sciobaru is (for what it is)? My guess is it was designed to anticipate the next round of government crashworthiness standards – which usually means more mass (and so, more weight).

The current Miata may only be a lightweight for now. It will be interesting to see whether the next Miata porks out, too."

And comparing to other sports/sporty cars:

"At this price point – or within $15k of it – there’s nothing that can touch it.

Now, some reviewers have bitched about the 7 second-ish 0-60 times. That a new Mustang V-6 is much quicker – which it is. In a straight line. But the BRZ driver will have his say when the road is no longer straight. God help the Mustang jockey trying to keep up. That goes for the V-8 Mustang, too. It’s a big, beefy, brawny car that handles very well… for a big, beefy brawny car. Even though I personally wish the BRZ were 300 pounds lighter, a new Mustang (the V-6 Mustang) is almost 700 pounds heavier. It also almost two feet longer (188.1 inches vs. 166.7) , nearly four inches wider through the hips (73.9 inches vs. 69.9) and five inches taller (55.6 inches vs. 50.6). It – and cars like it (Camaro, Challenger – even the Hyundai Genesis coupe ) are huge cars in comparison. And, they feel it.

It’s not that they’re oafish. Just big. Heavy. A handful.

The BRZ isn’t."

The miata also has less useable space.. Less headroom.. Etc.. So less weight.

Which the reviewer notes...

He lost me at manual transmissions not being practice. If you've ever driven both in the snow, you know the manual is leaps and bonds easier to control.

I have yet to own an automatic, nor has my wife. The day we are forced to buy one will be a very sad day for us.

We should all be supporting this cause. "Save the Stick"

'Manual' means the same it has always been. Technology will always eventually catch up especially in the age of computers. A perfect shift everytime has already been achieved. There isn't much more needed in that sense.

Anything "Manual" will be upgraded for "Automated". Robots replace workers, pop-machines replaced soda shops, Engines replaced horses. It's a cycle. Those that stick with manuals will have a pretty high demand 30+ years from now when people who know how to work on a clutch become more and more obsolete.

Some car makers are giving the venerable stick shift a better fighting chance by adding rev-matching to their manuals (370Z, C7, MINI, M3/M4, etc) - something I'd love to see on the '16 twins refresh and the new ND.

i dont see how the twins would be able to do this. so often people just kind of assume there is an extra 300lbs or so to be chopped off of cars with no penalty. i dont understand how you would make the frs lighter than the miata and still have it smoke a miata without becoming prohibitively expensive. where are you taking the weight from? and the miata isnt going to gain significant weight. its likely the car to have stuck to its philosophy for the longest in car history. the nc is even lighter than the outgoing mazdaspeed model and judging by the brake size revealed recently and the return to 4x100, its likely to be lighter

Try reading this re: the possibility of reducing weight...

http://ericpetersautos.com/2012/01/1...-were-missing/

And re: air bags and lack of choice:

http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/04/14/whos-responsible/

And re: government preventing us in the U.S. from buying really high mpg cars:

http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/06/0...llowed-to-buy/

http://ericpetersautos.com/2011/02/0...st-not-for-us/

http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/06/1...r-we-cant-buy/

For 98.9% of cars, and car owners, it is inevitable. Once the MPG ratio of autos vs. manuals crossed each other, the need for auto manufacturers to build manuals declined and eventually will cease to be a practical choice for them if they are to meet MPG standards.

Some manufacturers may hold on, and I hope they do, because we should always have the choice. But eventually when the public is buying ATs in the super majority of mass market cars, the manual will become an expensive option (lower volume raises prices) causing a downward spiral even more than now.

It may not be in the next few years, but it is inevitable, particularly as more automation slips into the picture.

And of course flying cars will all have to have ATs.

The real answer is Corn. Ethanol fuels and subsidies recieved by the people who grow corn and produce ethanol.

Same reason everything is sweetend by corn syrup.

And the same reason why the US was the first on the moon To see if we could plant more.. You guessed it... CORN!

how would any of this indicate that the frs could be lighter than the miata? im pretty sure the rules apply to both cars

Pick the right tool for the job. If you're primarily going to use your car to sit through 2-3 hrs. of mindless traffic, then buy an automatic. And get a car that's soft and comfy, with a good stereo and nice interior. If you're going to be at the track or on open roads, buy a manual and get a sports car. And if you can only afford one car that will double as your daily-driver and track/fun car, then don't complain when it isn't good at one thing or another. Every car is a bag of compromises.

I love manuals as much as anyone, but if I know I'm going to be sitting in heavy traffic on a particular day, I'll likely take the GTI with its dual-clutch.

And on a more general note, if people want car manufacturers to keep making manuals, they need to buy more manuals. It's as simple as that. Car manufacturers aren't there to make people happy, they're there to make money. So to all the people clamoring to "save the manuals", put your money where your mouth is.

/endrant

In order to meet the regulations but keep weight less than the MX5, subaru would have to use advanced materials and alloys that would drive the cost through the roof (think NSX-level pricing) and price this car right out of the target market.

Price it right out of that market, but panty sales would sky rocket due to all of em droppin!

I hate that feature - it's removing part of the manualness from the manual transmission. If the car is doing the rev matching for me, it might as well be a double clutch.

Which drives the cost up even more, b/c we know how expensive the female of the species makes things :bonk:

It also doesn't rev match very well from what I'm told. That is, wrt the Z370.

I've yet to drive an auto that can read my mind. Until that happens automatics will continue shifting at the wrong time. That's not that big of a deal, unless you're holding a corner line with the throttle and the transmission breaks torque for a shift. In that case, it can mean kissing the wall in a brand new car with the sales person in the passenger seat. Just ask me how I know. And that was a VW, often hailed as one of the best dual clutch transmissions on the market. If that was an example of the best, they can keep it.

And then there's driving in winter conditions. It'll be a very long time before an automatic transmission can master that.

This view always cracks me up - in every single one of these cars your use of rev-matching is optional -- if you don't want to use it, don't use it and heel-toe away.

Every 370Z review I have read (and there have been plenty) raved about it. As have owners, here and elsewhere.

That option is perfectly fine with me, as long as it can be easily disabled. Preferably permanently - if it has to be turned off every time you start the car, that could get annoying.

From what I've read about the 370Z, synchro rev matching can be turned off with a switch. When its off, it won't ever turn on until you switch it back on. That said, I don't think synchro rev matching like on the 370Z is going to help with the learning curve of a manual transmission.

There's a lot of fear unfortunately inserted to the public domain that driving a manual badly will result in broken gearbox, burnt clutch and a rough jerky drive. What doesn't seem to be in the realm of public knowledge is that modern cars with manuals were designed knowing their owners will stall it at some point or perhaps even several times if they're a beginner. My Impreza survived my early lousy beginning where it seemed like in my first week I had a good day if I didn't stall it. So strong that car was that even when selling it, my buyer wouldn't know any better that I used it as my starter manual car even at an advanced age for the car.

Owning the FRS now...I can safely say these newer cars are even easier to drive than my Impreza was. I don't have a 1st gear lock out, it seems reverse is synchronized, and the forgiveness in the clutch engagement point is relatively high. However, even with these improvements, I don't see them convincing a newbie who's never driven a manual or someone's significant other who's never driven one to convert. There has to be a will to want to drive a manual, without that will the conversion process from AT to MT is pretty much impossible.