Does this sound like 'tip-in knock'?
 

Final Update / tl;dr

Running some OTS stage 1 tunes in 91 OCT (v-power, in my case) will drop IAM below 1 in many situations (I had .57 at my lowest). Some debate between top tuners on the forum whether it is better to scale back and hit 1 IAM for best performance OR just let IAM drop to compensate for fuel, since the ECU is quite smart, resulting some up / down adjustments, eventually resulting in best IAM for current fuel while maintaining upside potential if you get better fuel later. Both sides have merits, I personally don't know enough to make a judgement call. I got my IAM back up to 1 running 94 Octane Ultra from Petrocan and will continue to do so.

a very special thanks to the following individuals who have greatly contributed to my quest for understanding (some posted, others PM'd). We need more people like you in this community - @jamesm, @Thorpedo, @Kodename47, @TemeCal, @steve99

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMa_CDXROYI"]Abnormal noise - YouTube[/ame]


Update 1: Haven't tried with revving not in gear (as shown in this video - not my car) but I do notice that I will get that noise when puttering around town at 2k rpm and I quickly put down some rapid throttle, makes that noise (originally thought to be mechanical) once I jab the accelerator. Most prevalent in 3rd/4th under high rapid load.

Update 2: did some logging tonight

http://www.datazap.me/u/1cor1023/dat...om=11808-12055

Freaked me out when I say IAM at 0.57 - this is VPOWER 91 in Canada. I only had about 1.5 gallons left so I filled up immediately with petrocan 94. As you can see throughout the ride in the log, IAM steadily is rising.

However, after listening carefully to see if I can spot the noise in the above video and the video below by @Thorpedo, I noticed that I can hear the noise even when I downshift rev match as I jab my accelerator.

I'd be pretty bummed if my seals were fried already - just over 6K miles, this car has seen redline perhaps 5 times and has never been tracked. Currently running OFT V1.5x

Update 3:

Found original owner of video clip with same issue (sorry didn't see this before!) Some discussion here but no resolution.

Update 4: After another afternoon of driving and cycling the 94 E10 throughout the system, IAM has come back to 1. Idle revving the car by giving it some jabs no longer makes the clicky noise, more of an intense induction/intake/suction noise - I assume this is normal.

So, what I've learned is that 91 octane being the lower edge for most OTS stage 1 tunes, it's best not to risk getting a bad batch and just go for the 93/94 with ethanol. I welcome crickets over knock any day. No more V-Power for me in Canada.

Thoughts?
Thanks!

Your vid won't load for me, but given your description I would say it is. Mine is bad when I hit the throttle around 4k. Take a close listen to this. You can hear it knocking when I get on the throttle a few times. (don't judge my run, hangovers and autocross don't mix)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn-0tlbh234"]Outside View - Sept 14, 2013 AutoSlalom #8 - ASCC Club Event - YouTube[/ame]

So that is considered knock, eh? Sounds similar enough to the link I posted. @Thorpedo

Have you tried anything to mitigate the situation / I'm guessing this will lead to long-term issues like DI seals melting?

I get that too.....even after flashing with OFT v1.55 tune. However, I've noticed it less often often now that the weather here has cooled...compared to when it was over 100F daytime temp.

@Fizz, yeah I'm running v1.5x as well.

bump - updated OP with data log.

I always thought that was coming from the diff and I would get it sometimes only when I step on the gas.. idk maybe its a different noise

WTF what production year is your car and have you taken it to the dealer for inspection?

April 2013 build. Haven't had it inspected, this is the first time I've logged the car.

Seeing as I can generate the noise while on the clutch, don't think it can be the diff :/

You got a point :( I'd take it to the dealer, hope it isn't anything bad.

That is knock, but the question is whether or not it is harmful. I hear it in all the FRS I run with at autorcross. It is not a DI seal problem (Yet) unless you get the popping you hear about in the DI seal failure threads.

Detonation under load is one thing, knock while free revving or just as you hit the gas is another. I made a thread about this long ago an no one seemed concerned given it is not a knock under full load.

I'm still unsure myself. Mine does the same thing as yours does in the vid.

I had an issue with tip-in-knock on a tune but it pretty much disappeared for me when going back to stock tune. I know delicious tuning claims to have a solution for it, I've heard some others say after getting a better quality tune it disappears.

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Thanks mate - let's keep in touch. I've booked a service appointment for Monday to see what they say. You're referring to the Vid in the OP? Not my car but I'm sure mine would do the same thing since I can hear it when I rev match. Really appreciate your reply, weight off my shoulder to know it's not a super rare occurrence.

That sub 0.6 IAM really freaked me out though, looks like I'm going to be running Ultra94 E10 from now on (at the expense of crickets).

Cheers.

Yep thats the "tip-in" knock... i had it on my visconti tuned NA FRS. I've spoken to @DeliciousTuning about this and they confirm their tunes don't have it :)

Have you logged it to confirm?

Logged with the tune and confirmed it would pull timing (negative knock correction value) when first giving throttle and I had the audible ping. Haven't logged with stock tune, but the noise is gone.

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Hope I'm not troubling you too much but any thoughts on this @shiv@vishnu? Running v1.58 stage 1. Thanks!

Sorry for the off topic guys: @Thorpedo Will you be attending nationals this summer in PEI?

Yep! I am attending the full ARMS AX series and PEI is one of the regional events as well as the nationals. Will I see you there?

Yea I'm with Vinland Motorsport in Newfoundland. I'm trying to get a few people to make the journey with me, but I'm going regardless. I'm hoping to get a lapping day in at AMP as well.

That is definitely tip in knock. You won't see it on datalogs necessarily. Our car had it that bad from the factory and we get rid of it on our tunes.

Mine also does this. I am concerned. :/ Seems hardly any of the tunes fix this, and most people with DI seal issues point to this issue as the cause.

would you say that this left undealt with will definitely lead to DI seal failure?

Yes, this is correct. On forced induction applications we have removed the "tip-in" knock on our tunes through the use of custom mapping with EcuTeK. Not sure if it is possible with other tuning solutions, as we needed the custom mapping EcuTeK provides in order to achieve a solution.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

Is this custom mapping also included in your na stage 1 & 2 tunes? I've been thinking about trying one of these.

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Yes, it is including in all our tunes, NA and FI.

Cheers,
William Knose

@1Cor10:23 FWIW, I have an AT and that sound comes when it auto blips during downshifts.
I'm running Shell V-Power

I'm going to do a mini write up and update op tonight but basically after switching to ultra94, the noise is drastically reduced / non existent, only hear aggressive intake air rush noises on throttle blips.

Also, IAM immediately went from a low of. 57 to. 98 in the span of about 1 hour of driving after filling up with ultra 94 (had 6 liters of vpower left).

I'm not going to bash on vpower because I know it's a good fuel but could've gotten a bad batch but for now going to fill 94.

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I can confirm that the Moto East ecutek tune get rid of it :thumbup:
(I'm using shell 91 vpower)

Unless you had a ridiculously bad tune.
Looking at the stock tune to my current tune, it is pretty clear why stock was much worse for me.

I've been telling everybody since the beginning... USE ULTRA94!

Why the hell would you use anything less when we have 94 octane at our disposal?! Only the idiots will tell you otherwise.

The car calls for 93 octane to run optimally. Sure it runs on 91, but why bother when we can get 94?!

TRUST ME, just fill Petro 94 and you'll be good to go. That's all I've been running since my first fill up and will not use anything else. My car runs like a champ.

There is no 94 in my area. 91 is the highest in my entire province as far as i know. My car 'runs like a champ' too, I just get the knock when i first press the accelerator.

Well that's a different story if you only have access to 91. Kinda like Cali. But to the guys that have readily access to higher octane, you really have no reason to pump anything less than 93. It spells it flat out in the owner's manual... Pump 93 octane - 91 will work but not recommended. Your car does not run like a champ if you're getting knock lol.

Pumping 91 when 94 is readily available is like choosing to be 2nd place. Sucks even more if 91 is all you have.

TRD intake and stock tune works really well for me with very minimal knock. Seems like quite a few people with first hand accounts with various tunes that are far worse than the factory tune for tip-in-knock.

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TRD intake with stock tune is what I'm on, so we need to look at other variables like fuel and build date.

I see you mentioned 91 octane fuel, I have all 93 in my area so that could potentially be the difference.

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What knock correction values are you getting?

Hi , looks like you US/Canadian guys have same issues as us with Tip in knock and High rpm knock on lower octane fuels.

If you look at his log his KC Learned (knock correction advance) is being retarded quite a lot at 5000-7000 rpm.

If you could log "Knock Correction" on your OFT next time it will show you more easily the low rpm 2000-3500 tip in knock thats dropping you IAM.

I did a bit of a write up on is here

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61820

Your fuel formulations are different and our octane rating system is different

98RON kind of equals 93 AKI (USA)
100 RON 94 AKI

But is does appear that your fuel is slightly better.

I could always log the knock but never hear it except on stock factory tune

Basically you need to log the knock, if you see knock corrections are occurring consistently at an RPM/load point either FBKC or FLKC (you will have to calculate this if you have OFT) . Then pull about half the correction amount from the "Base timing B" table at that rpm/load point (it best to pull a bit from adjacent cells as well). ie if your seeing -1.5 knock correction values pull -0.75. flash the modded map and log again.

looks like you will have to pull timing in similar areas to us but maybe a bit more if your on 91 AKI octane fuel.