Need feedback on air bags suspension
 

Im debating if i should run air bag suspension

might able to get some hands on Universal Air Suspension,

So the question is......

If i daily my car like run (1500 miles) a month, is air suspension reliable?

If not the smart way to go, imma go ksport coilovers


so tell me whats the smarter way~ coilovers or bags?

The sheer amount of miles you claim to drive every month, is that much more potential to rip/pop a bag. Idk if it would be worth the more investment than a decent set of coilovers.

so i guess coilovers it is? >.<?

any more feedbacks?

Sure, more distance means higher probability but how likely are popped bags? I was under the impression that modern bags were fairly reliable/robust.
I would hardly call Ksport decent.

From apex-tuning: "The number of parts involved also means there are a lot of potential failure points in the system. You could blow a bag, pop an air line, or have a valve fail, any of which would leave the car stranded as the suspension will bottom out if no pressure can be held in the air bag."

And no Ksport is not decent lol certain coils above 1k like Bilstein RCE I've heard some FA are good...blah blah blah. ST are decent as well.

If your looking for that rediculous drop, you can get it on stance coilovers or some extreme drop versions of some BC and Tein coilovers.

how about between stance and BC? which one u guys recommend?

There's a few posts about people picking one of the other between bc and stance
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1042805
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1337846

I recently got the BC Racing extreme drops and I like them. Not even close to as low as it can go, but low enough to barely get in my drive way. More pictures are here if you want.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61982

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/...psee5011f5.jpg

You don't want to daily bags. It's just not practical. I had mine in my other car and the issues sent me right back to coilovers.

You don't know what you are talking about, so you probably shouldn't make statements claiming you do.

What issues did you have? Been DD my BRZ for a year now on bags, not one single issue.

I'd probably say install error, because bags are the most practical thing ever lol

Go bags. I daily drive my car and if you get a brand new quality setup, you have a lot less of a chance of issues.

I'd just suggest the following:

Run your airlines INSIDE the car (under the carpet like you would for audio wiring).
Get 1/4" airlines (plenty quick enough to raise/lower and a lot easier to run).
Get a digital management system. I went with Airlift Performance Digital V2 Kit.
Get at least 1 water trap.
Get an upgraded SMC check valve and upgraded compressor.

If you have specific questions, PM me directly and I'll walk you through it all. I did the installation with my friend taking our sweet time on a Saturday and all said and done took us 8 hours. Mainly because I'm a freak with zip tying everything 6" apart.

If air was unreliable, you wouldn't see every single tractor trailer, dump truck, metro bus, etc. running it on every one of their vehicles.

I have my ride height set about 2 1/2" or so lower than stock. My dropped/hard parked height I can't even turn the wheel, and my "speed bump" height is 1-2" higher than stock.

It's the best of both worlds. 30 way adjustable dampening. The good part about the digital system is you have 1 "all in one" manifold. So no having to run 8 independent valves. It's all in one nice and heavy duty/compact unit.

I know of another guy in Chicago who daily drives his car w/ the exact same setup and hasn't had a single issue in 2 years as well.

Just to note I ran my lines outside. If you do it correctly you won't have any issues. I actually prefer running them outside (i've done both).

Water Trap isn't always needed but its a nice addition - it depends on climate but can't hurt having one. Everything else mentioned though is all good info.

I know you said you are meticulous but make sure you keep checking fittings/lines/etc for a week or so and keep an eye out on your tank pressure to make sure you have no leaks. Sometimes you can just miss one. EDIT: n/m I thought you wrote you installed it THIS saturday lol

Also, depending on how you lay out the trunk setup, it can be way more than an 8 hour install. But as far as the strut installation thats super easy. The most tedius thing is the trunk setup for the compressor/tank/manifold/etc and how intricate you want to make it.

I do not know who Apex-Tuning are but that quote reads like a marketing blurb. The quote lists possibilities. If the quote had said something along the lines of "We have fitted x number of bag systems and had to repair 10% of them due to popped bags or leaks or a common failure point was the junction between..." then I would have paid more attention. It would seem ApexTuning is just bagging bags.

I had a bagged truck and ran 1/2" lines outside and had a split because of the idiot who installed them prior ran them directly over the c-notch in the rear, ha. Needless to say, it was NOT fun getting at being so low. At least if a line tears on the inside it's easier to access if the car isn't able to be lifted up at all. Both work fine though if you run them right.

I still haven't finished my trunk setup, I wanted to get everything up and running right before building out the false floor. Plan another entire day to "clean up" the setup. :)

You don't NEED a water trap with their manifold, they even say it, but it can't hurt. I like to cover my ass when I can though, ha.

The weather has been so up and down here it's been impossible to get an accurate reading as it drops 40 degrees at night and for every 10 degrees drop is like 3-4 PSI, so I wake up and it's at 135 or so and get out of work and it's at 155, haha.

Luckily leaks are super easy to spot too.

Okay enough rambling.

- bent airlift strut
- fitting failure x2
- bag failure
- compressor failure
- psi cutoff failure
- line failure (ran in car too)

I probably put 25k miles on my car in the time period I owned them. It was a great ride, but wasn't practical in the end. If I were to go back I probably would have upgraded my management. (I think I would have had less issues)

A little self whoring. With the car air'd out it sat on the tires rendering it immovable. Hence why busting a line, fitting, or bag was a pain in the ass. :

http://automodia.files.wordpress.com...6/img_4338.jpg

I had 25k miles on my previous Gti setup and I never changed a thing. Drained the tanks of moisture once a year and rolled on

Besides the compressor and psi cutoff failure, all of those sound like install or drive error. I mean it could have just been accidental but usually a properly installed setup will be completely reliable unless of a hardware issue/malfunction. Even if the compressor is not mounted correct it could cause the piston to seize.

Either way that sucks you had so many issues but for me it's been pain free minus tracking a small leak or two which ended up being fittings not tight enough.

Having a big turbo setup at the time didn't help. It just multiplied issues all over. I think I had bad luck. I just don't ever want to be stranded again. But now that I have a brz to daily I could entertain another air setup on the GLI :D

To the OP, if you do a bag setup. Do it right and spend the money the first time around. Get the management you would like. And don't go with manual control. Lol

This is always a good point. Counter to my "I'm not going to daily bags again" personal belief.

Thank you for telling me what I know, because you're inside of my head and had the same experiences I've had. Clearly you know what I'm thinking, and can think better than me.

Just because you have had a great practical experience with bags doesn't mean you're the average case, sure that's what everyone should expect, but not everyone does.

I don't have to be "inside your head" to know. You make a blank statement stating "well you are more inclined to pop/rip a bag" with no fact or experience to back up your claim.

The chances of you popping a bag is SO unlikely. 9/10 times it is install error, or driving error. The bag will not simply pop or rip unless there is some sort of defect in the bag, which is always a possibility obviously, but highly improbable.

If you rip or pop a bag, you either did not check clearance correct so your bag is rubbing against the shock tower or something else, OR you are running a stupid amount of PSI in the bag and drove down a road that was filled with 2 foot deep potholes.

I have experience with this stuff, and i'm simply saying that if its installed correctly, the chances for issues are very minimal.

Hmm...I don't know what to say to the OP.

Quality coilovers and a quality air suspension will both ride better than stock.

Air suspension have more parts, use rubber (rubber<metal no matter the durability of the rubber, the metal will always be more durable)

Coilovers are made out of all metal, won't corrode easily (still talking about decent systems here) and most likely have less problems to deal with than air suspension.

I understand bags can be reliable. I would be that person always worrying about debris on the road scratching or possibly puncturing the bag. I can take coilovers through the grit, mud, dirt, shitty debris ladened roads, and have no worry in the world.

You are still making very general statements :lol:

I understand what you are saying, but unless you run over a giant chunk of metal, nothing is puncturing that bag. You will blow your tire out before you break that bag lol.

Hey look at that thread floating around how that coilover from one of the forum members snapped and almost caused him to crash his car. Shit happens.

I mean shit happens yeah, but that wasn't exactly a quality coilover ;) then again, I haven't ever seen that kind of coilover failure, ever. I know general statements, but it's the common sense thought. if you live in an area with constant debris that isn't normal road debis, probably not the best idea to run bags. Then again if I had the money to buy an air system I would buy some JRZ RS or Öhlins...

What about cups on JRZ RS Pros, Ohlins TTX, TEIN SRCs, Penske...oh wait...nobody even thought of that...:mad0259:

if op is looking at stance, ksport, and bc as his coilover options... don't think he would be looking to drop $ on a quality air kit...

save up and do it right the first time whichever you decide...

I haven't heard much about Penske, or Öhlins TTX.

Nobody wants to pay 10k for suspension...it has been inquired already...LOL :wub:

Holy mother of god :mad0260: this car can't make use of suspension of that calibre lol and I thought my budget was high -_- I would need tangible noticeable evidence to even consider that kind of jump. I mean I know it goes like Ohlins R&T<JRZ RS<air suspension<something<probably something else<idk where Penske or Ohlins TTX or JRZ RS Pros go. Probably the cost of my kidney.

Yes it can. :popcorn:

The bad thing is, I would not be able to tell the difference between the Ohlins R&T or the Penske 8300 or JRZ RS Pros or the Ohlins TTX40's :(

There is a difference. :thumbsup:

ALRIGHT so OP, if you want bags, be prepared to spend more than 6k for them. You want quality so it won't break, well ya gotta pay for it. If you can't swing that, then a nice set of coilovers from KW, RCE & Bilstein will suit your needs fine.

Oh there definitely is, I just wouldn't be able to drive the car to the limit to find where the difference is.

There is a small silver lining in the fact that they cost a lot, it will allow me to learn how to drive the car to it's limits, so I will be better equipped to discern the difference, aiding me in my ultimate suspension choice.

$6,000?! Either you're paying 25% over retail or you want him buying a set for you too, lol.

My entire air lift performer digital v2 setup with upgraded 444c compressor, chec valve, compressor isolator kit, and water trap was under $3,100 including shipping.

I was probably looking at top of the line stuff then...I mean I can always use a free air ride suspension ;) lol jk. But still, the quality coilovers will come in at a grand less.

It really depends on the OP's needs.

For daily driving/show/light track use/around town fun - I'd say go with air ride. There are several companies such as Air Lift Performance, Air Rex, and others. I'd personally go with Air Lift (that's what I have) and it's extremely well built.

If you plan on tracking the car more than daily driving it, go coilovers. You can get a SERIOUSLY good set of coilovers and still have about $1,000 left over.

There are still pros and cons of both. Pros of coilovers would be ease of installation, no additional wiring, tanks, compressors, generally better suited for track use (compared to air ride as a 1:1 comparison). Cons would be that you're stuck at one height until you jack up your car, and readjust them.

Pros for air ride is that you can get as low as you possibly want, still drive at an aggressive height, and raise it up above stock heights for steep dips/speed bumps/inclines - all with hitting 1 button. It's always funny seeing peoples faces when you raise/lower the car. It puts a smile on your own face.

Cons - More to potentially fail (but if you take your time installing it right, it's 99.99% fail proof - in my personal opinion for owning it on my BRZ). It's $1,000 more expensive than a high end coil over kit (if you go with the digital which I highly recommend for several other reasons). It takes double the time to install.

So it really depends on your ultimate wants/needs for the car. I live in speed bump central Virginia and they like to put random steep inclines everywhere so it was a no brainer for me to go air. I'm familiar with it and the process. If I lived in a state where the roads were perfect and I was doing a lot of track work, I'd probably go coilovers.

You don't need to drive "at the limit" to know the difference. Here's one fine example of incredibly high end coilovers besides doing what suspension is supposed to do: driver fatigue is reduced. :thumbsup:

Oh yay, trying to make me spend away my inheritance are we? ;) I feel like I'm just going to do coilovers and engine work last, rather do it right and make my mouth drop instead of just smile. I'll just sell myself into slavery for some JRZ RS from you guys lol