BRZ vs S2000 vs Cayman S (my take)
 

Both the S2000 and Cayman S have been compared ad nauseum to the Twins on this (and other) message forums. As I have now had experience owning all three I thought perhaps my views could help give others insight into future car purchases (or reinforce how they already feel about their current vehicle). First I will summarize each vehicle’s history with me before jumping into the pros/cons of each.

I purchased my bright red 2007 S2000 in, December of ’08, with only 4800 miles on the odometer. She was flawless, in almost brand new condition. Hell, I’m pretty sure the heat had never been used before I turned it on that very day. This was my first RWD car of any type, sports or otherwise. In true Honda fashion this car had rock solid reliability – only trouble spots were accelerated wear on the vinyl top (wore out twice before reaching 60,000 miles) and the CD player stopped working (odd given I hardly used it). The driving experience was fantastic. Very visceral and raw, with gokart like handling. The engine was a jewel – very smooth, and spun like a top up to its 8100 rpm fuel cut off. The engine sound was tame in my opinion, something I fixed with the installation of an Invidia exhaust. I loved the focused cockpit of the interior (definitely deserving of the cockpit label). Everything important was just a finger’s reach from the steering wheel, and there were no distractions. And let’s not forget about that glorious gear shifter – what a work of art, in appearance and function. It honestly baffles the mind that Honda’s gear shifters are superior to those in cars costing double, triple or even quadruple. Only issues I had with the interior were space related; I am 6’2” and could have greatly benefited from another 1-2 inches of leg room. This was my first sports car, but after 55,000 miles and 49 months I was looking to make a change in my life. I had yearned for more horsepower for a while, and a coupe. However due to a few changes in my personal life I thought it would be best to get something more practical, even if it meant less power.

Enter a Satin White Pearl BRZ Limited. From the start I knew this car’s powertrain would never impress me, but I was smitten with the handling and steering feel. And a tiny rear seat that folds into the trunk was a huge bonus. The car’s styling was fantastic, though to be fair I still felt the S2000 was a more attractive design. The brakes felt considerably stronger than the S2000s (hardware carried over from the WRX – finally some rear vented rotors). I don’t place much importance on creature comforts but the Bluetooth connectivity, heated seats, and keyless entry were very nice touches. I had always been perfectly fine with the S2000’s interior, but after being in a BRZ the S2000’s looked positively Spartan, and a bit cramped. The BRZ was a considerably quieter vehicle, and was much better for long trips. Some people have complained about the Twins transmission having short gearing but I thought it was just about perfect and prevented the necessity to constantly downshift at interstate speeds for passing maneuvers. The BRZ’s steering wheel is fantastic. Just the right diameter and thickness and while the power assist is unfortunately electric in natural I felt it offered better weight and feel than the S2000’s rack (itself also an EPS unit). The shifter itself isn’t as nice as the S2000’s, nor was its shifting action. However it is still far superior to most shifters one encounters in automobiles of sporting nature.

Unfortunately it only took a few months to realize the power level of the FA20 just wasn’t satisfactory for me. I loved the efficiency of the engine, as beating the EPA ratings proved easy to do. However, I was more than happy to trade some of that efficiency for additional power. Enter the addition of an Innovate Stage 1 supercharger (7 psi), unequal length RevWorks SS header, and Nameless over and front pipes. These modifications helped with the sound and power. Had that nice boxer burble and while the peak power gain wasn’t impressive from a numbers POV the additional power (and torque) under the curve made a bit difference. Power application wasn’t as smooth as OEM, but was still quite enjoyable (and with the windows up the supercharger whine was fun to listen to). Still, I felt like it should have felt faster…and boy did the gas mileage tank. 28-29 averages turned into 22-23 mpg, with highway mpg dropping from 34-36 to 29-30. Didn’t think the hit would be that big, but either way just a minor annoyance.

Unfortunately, as has been previously documented on this forum, I “totaled” the BRZ in November and the insurance company settled with me. At that point I considered a wide variety of cars (on paper, not in person) but not another BRZ or S2000. I still wanted a coupe, but eliminated the BRZ from the list because I knew I wouldn’t be happy with the power level – and I wasn’t going to modify one again, just didn’t seem like a good use of funds. Before buying my BRZ the year before I had seriously considered the Porsche Cayman S, and test drove a few. Even had one purchased out from under me. That being said, this time around I told myself to just get what you really want, the Cayman S.

Overall I prefer the 987.2 over the 987.1 but the ‘09+ models were out of my price range, so I settled on a nice 2006 Cayman S with 56k miles. A lot of non-Porsche owners love to harp about the engine “problems” of the 987.1 models but if any moderate research is done on the topic one will find it’s nothing to be seriously concerned with. Add to that the long term reliability questions of the newer direct injection engines (987.2) and it’s really a wash. Anyway, the CS…I love this car. I think it is absolutely gorgeous, with flowing curves all over the place. I think it does look slightly odd when you view it directly from the side, but any other angle and it’s just amazing. The interior isn’t as luxurious as one would hope for a car that originally cost $60k+ but it’s well built and no-nonsense, which is fine by me. The driving position is better than any other car I have owned, and plenty of adjustments can be made via the seat or steering wheel. Again, with my height another 1-2” of leg room would be preferable but even on long trips I’ve been comfortable enough. I’ve never owned a RWD car with hydraulic powered steering and…the steering of this car is just tops, so great. Likewise the engine is really something, more powerful than anything I have owned and it sounds fantastic when you’re really beating on it. Throttle response is pretty good, and even better if put into Sport mode. You don’t have to shift as much to accelerate quickly (6 gear at highway speeds is just fine for pulling away from annoying and/or slow drivers) but when one does shift I’ll admit the feel or action isn’t as good as the S2000 or BRZ. A kit could probably remedy this a bit. The last part of the equation, the brakes…well it’s a Porsche. Incredibly powerful and not much else needs to be said. All said and done I love this car and intend to keep her for a very long time.

The breakdown:

Running Cost:
1. BRZ – new car warranty, superb fuel efficiency, though depreciation will hit hard
2. S2000 – depreciating slowly, parts & labor reasonably priced
3. Cayman – depreciating slowly, parts & labor comparatively expensive

Reliability:

1. S2000 – it’s a Honda
2. Cayman – Porsches are well made, but when something does break/wear out it’s not cheap
3. BRZ - has well documented engine problems that Subaru seems to have no interest addressing

Interior comforts:
1. BRZ – not surprising since newest
2. Cayman – similar to S2000’s Spartan take, but better seats, more storage spots
3. S2000 – power windows and AC are comforts, right?


Interior layout:
1. S2000 – most driver focused
2. Cayman – best driving position & outward view
3. BRZ – tall dashboard, higher hood and thicker pillars than others

Interior room:
1. BRZ – plenty of leg room
2. Cayman – needs more leg room, but more seat & steering wheel adjustability than S2000
3. S2000 – needs more leg room

Stereo:
1. Cayman - 9 speakers, good bass
2. BRZ & S2000 tied – BRZ’s more powerful, but had pesky speaker vibrations. S2000’s not strong enough

Styling (of course this is subjective):
1. Cayman – curves curves curves, low hood thanks to MR configuration)
2. S2000 – classic roadster look mixed with purposeful & taunt curves
3. BRZ - great modern design, but draconian pedestrian crash regs hurt front end styling

Exclusivity (not to be snobbish, but not everyone wants to see their car everywhere, a la Mustang:
1. Cayman (when referring to the 987 model itself – if for all Caymans past and present they will most likely be seen more often than the discontinued S2000)
2. S2000
3. BRZ

Engine:
1. Cayman – power, smoothness & exhaust note
2. S2000 - high rev nature and power
3. BRZ – yay fuel efficiency?

Transmission:
1. S2000 – really no explanation needed
2. BRZ
3. Cayman

Steering:
1. Cayman
2. BRZ - more feel & better weighting than S2000
3. S2000 – numb at times

Handling:
1. Cayman – very planted and communicable, highest limits (which yes, tires are a factor)
2. BRZ – overall benign and predictable (no jokes about me crashing it please)
3. S2000 – can be snappy at limit

Braking:
1. Cayman – no explanation needed
2. BRZ – beefy units given car’s adequate power levels
3. S2000 – less heat sink capacity than slower BRZ


Cargo Capacity:
1. BRZ – fold down seats seal the deal
2. Cayman - 2 trunks better than 1, dog can chill on engine hump if need be
3. S2000 - small trunk, no room for dog if carrying 2 people

Fuel efficiency:
1. BRZ – 2 liter engine, DI - 28/34 mpg in my hands
2. Cayman - gas mileage not as good as S2000, but good given performance – 21/25
3. S2000 - 22/27


Fun to drive:
1. Cayman - extra thrust makes all the difference
2. S2000 – gokart handling, screaming engine, drop top
3. BRZ - handling isn’t everything, needs more power

Best for long road trip:
1. BRZ – extra creature comforts and greatly superior highway gas mileage
2. Cayman – worst gas mileage but most planted car at speed, also best cruise control
3. S2000 – loudest, limited seat adjustability

Naturally this is all just mostly my opinion, and my views may be slightly biased (owned S2000 the longest, always lusted for Cayman S, purchased BRZ with a “compromised” mindset). However I hope my point of view will help others get an idea of the experience of owning each and what might be best for them if considering purchasing any (or switching from one to another). Again, all three cars are fantastic and even if I ranked one higher than another for better ____ it’s not to say that the loser was bad at _____, just not as good. All three are great sports cars that are fun to drive and put a smile on the driver’s face. If my commentary dragged on a bit too long I apologize but I wanted to include every point that I felt was necessary. Enjoy!

Have you driven a 981? I'd love some input on that versus your 987. Specifically steering, as the 981 moved to EPS a la the other cars in this comparison.

Thank you for your review!

Nice write up. How about some pictures?

good unbiased review

Sounds like you need a boosted s2k with a solid state amp under the passenger seat, upgraded speakers, and a push/pull system in the trunk :p

Can't deny that the Cayman is an excellent car though; I've had a lot of friends buy used ones and love them.

Out of curiosity, as far as the road trip gas mileage is concerned, have you taken yours on the highway much yet? Mine seems to absolutely love highway cruising, and I've seen easily 26-28mpg at 80+mph on the interstate. Of course, city gas mileage is pretty awful, so most of the time, I see 22mpg or so combined (and I've seen 18 or even worse if I do a lot of city driving). I also have to disagree with you about the stereo - I find the Cayman's stereo to be mediocre at best. Does yours have the Bose, or the standard speakers?

Good overall writeup though - it's definitely nice to hear the comparison from the perspective of someone who has owned all 3.

I too was in the market for a used Cayman S (still might be lol) when I was shopping for the BRZ. My only gripe about the Cayman is the weight and perhaps handling potential. I can't imagine a modded BRZ with BBK, suspension, and tires being outhandled by the Cayman. Will doing the same mods on the Cayman increase its handling prowess dramatically? Power is a different story, but since the car is DD, you can't go that fast on the street anyways.

Also, the Cayman S buttonwillow times seen on youtube doesn't seem to be that fast... Was expecting it to be 2:01 or 2:00 stock and not the 2:08-2:11... yea driver is a factor, but would love to see faster buttonwillow times when properly driven.

Actually yes I have driven the 981. I had one for 24 hours when my car was having a new catalytic convertor installed (under warranty). It was a Cayman S model equipped with Sport Chrono, PDK, sport exhaust with dual mode exhaust sound, 20" wheels, navigation, heated/cooled seats and probably a few other things I wasn't even aware of. It was a blast to drive and the PDK was impressive (my first time driving one). In Sport Plus mode the shifts were lightning fast and the exhaust notably louder. HOWEVER, the steering feel from 987 to 981 was night and day. The 981 was numb in comparison.

The 981 has a considerably nicer interior with a lot more features, not to mention more horsepower than my 987 but I was happy to get back into my car. Besides the steering feel I also prefer the exterior styling of my car (Not a big fan of the rectangular-ish front headlights of the 981). I wouldn't turn down a 981 if someone gave me one, but I'd probably prefer a 2012 Cayman R instead:party0030:


Sure thing, gimme a sec...

I purchased the car in Macon, GA and live in Raleigh, so I have driven it on the highway for up to 4 1/2 hours at a time. The best I've been able to do is 27 mpg, and that was when averaging 60-65 mph. When cruising at 75-80 25 has been my best, and that's without the AC. I didn't mention this above, and I suppose it deserves a giant asterisk, but unbeknownst to me when I bought my car, the ECU has been reflashed. The local Porsche dealership up here informed me of such. So my car may be up a few ponies at the expense of some fuel efficiency.

pics as requested!

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...9_859097_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...06372678_n.jpg
(on left)

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...37085303_n.jpg

Very nice writeup. I would love a Cayman S as my fun car. Gorgeous car. But with three young kids I don't see it happening. My WRX will be paid off in less than 2 years and I am seriously considering an S2K or a used FR-S/BRZ as my fun car in a few years. I have always wanted an S2K, but they are not practical here for about half the year and a decent one will be harder to find in the rust belt.

Is your Cayman your daily driver?

Nice writeup! I, too, considered a 987 when I was car shopping, but axed it due to the lack of rear pseudo-seats and shortage of contiguous cargo space-- having two trunks is nice if you're bringing an assortment of small, soft items, but doesn't help at all if you need to move a bulky object of any kind. Not that the BRZ has all that much cargo room, but it's definitely better off with those rears folded down.

Just out of curiosity, do you feel that your Cayman and the BRZ have a similar overall driving feel in terms of difficulty / sense of occasion? Or are they both just sweet-handling, easy to drive, modern cars? I ask because I remember driving a Boxster at MRLS at one point and I was shocked how easy it was to drive (I remember it being a lot like my BRZ, actually... super forgiving with great handling, but down on power).

I'm currently really conflicted about my own BRZ: it handles wonderfully after some suspension work and it's a lot of fun to drive, but in some ways I almost find it boring. With the suspension tweaks and a set of Super Sports the car just grips and goes in a pretty drama-free fashion. It's very quick for what it is, the handling is there, and I don't necessarily mind the lack of power-- I think it's plenty quick for the street, although some more torque would be nice-- but it's almost too easy to drive. It feels like the car doesn't really call you out for driving sloppily and doesn't really demand much of the driver, which usually wouldn't sound like a criticism, but is becoming a point of criticism for me.

Anyway, I've always loved Porsches and am considering trading my BRZ for one, but I'm really not sure if I'd like a water-cooled one at all. I autox'ed a 997 at one point --years ago-- but can't remember clearly what that drove like (just that it rotated nicely under trail-braking). I'm concerned that if I were to get a recent Porsche I might end up similarly bored with it, as modern ones just seem so fast and capable that I suspect they might feel a little too straightforward on the street. Do you feel like your Cayman is as easy to drive casually to drive as your BRZ was?

What year was the Cayman..? They get faster with each iteration..
On the street the FRS will give you as much , if not more entertainment..
And for the price... It's an outstanding value.
On the track, at speed and nearing the limits.. The P car would be the one to have..

Nice review. I would love to try out a Cayman S. I really like my S2000 a lot. Only had it since the beginning of January. Top down driving is actually pretty fun, and that's not something I cared about at all before getting it. The 360° visibility and hearing the engine with the top down just adds something extra that is fun.

Personally, I think the FRS/BRZ looks the best out of all 3 cars. I like the more S15/RX7-ish sleek, aggressive tuner car looks... but the Cayman is more grown up and classy, and the S is somewhere in between the two.

The S2000 handles really well, and I'd love to add forced induction, but I don't think I'll be able to hold out if a factory FI FRS comes out. The smooth, tossable, easy to drift nature of it offers something different from the S2000. If they don't come out with something at least as quick as an S2K, I'll be taking a look at the Nissan IDx in a few years, although I don't particularly like its looks and would rather have an S16....

Off topic:

Have you tried driving air box cover off?

Nope. It's a totally stock Suzuka Blue AP2. Haven't done anything at all to it yet. Been drooling over the HKS Supercharger... haha

Try it. Just take the cover off of the airbox, and go for a drive.

I understand your situation; I'm a single guy with a dog so I do not honestly have a need for a 4 door sedan. Before buying a BRZ I seriously considered a 2013 WRX hatch, but decided to hold off on any sort of "practical" vehicle till I truly needed one. If I were in your shoes I would probably do the same thing (purchase a used S2K/BRZ after WRX is paid off). And yes, the Cayman is my daily driver - though I still drive the Integra about 6,000 miles a year. If it's raining or snowing (esp snow) I drive the Integra. Or if I plan to ditch a car downtown for a night of drinking...Integra! haha.


They're definitely both easy to drive cars - I would even say the Cayman is easier since it can get up to speed so easily. Rear visibility is better (I think) in the Cayman as well. The C pillars are still thick, but their location is better and the way the Cayman's tail droops helps with rear visibility, esp when parking. Naturally they are both sweet driving cars whose limits can't safely be reached on public roads. I haven't pushed the Cayman super hard, as I'm just a bit more cautious given the MR configuration I'm still learning. Also I purchased the car as is and while the front tires were close to new, the rears are down around 50% trend left - which isn't really optimal! (I plan to replace the rears by summer's end, if not sooner).

I also love air cooled Porsches, specifically the 964 and 993. Right now in my life though the 964 is too slow for what I want, and the 993's just cost too much! Maybe some day.

One thing I didn't really mention much and want to is that (never owning anything with more than 4 cylinders before) the Porsche's M97 flat six engine is incredibly smooth, like silk. Really a night and day difference. Gotta love a naturally balanced engine. Oh, and while it's 3.4 liters and has a redline of 7200 make no mistake, this engine loves to rev. There's even an almost "VTEC" like changeover above 6000 when the Vario-Cam adjusts the timing. The exhaust note changes and you feel a little extra boost. It's also quite torquey for what it is, with it's peak torque (252) sustained over a 3000 rpm band.

Damn, I never tried that.:(

Luckily my dad owns an '05 Silverstone! When I go home for Easter I'll have to try that out. I doubt he'll mind since whenever I visit he's itching to take the Cayman for a spin:laughabove:

Good writeup, and glad to hear you're enjoying the Cayman! Owning a MR car is on my bucket list, so I'll probably end up buying a used 987 Cayman S or Elise/Exige in a few years.

I've noticed the FR-S is very forgiving with stock suspension at the track, even on moderately sticky tires. The limits are pretty high, but once you overstep that limit, it's relatively easy to recover. I've always attributed that to:

1) Less weight in the rear (FR layout, 54/46 weight distribution)
2) Camber curve (i.e., front mcp struts and rear multi-link)
3) Light hp/torque

I've driven the Cayman S and it feels setup by Porsche to be pretty forgiving, but I would guess the Cayman would bite harder at the limit than an FR-S, given:

1) More weight in the rear (MR layout, 45/55 weight distribution)
2) Lack of camber curve (rear mcp struts)
3) Greater hp/tq

Just my guess though. I haven't had the chance to flog the Cayman S at the track yet, only backroads.

When I sold my vette early last year.. I was headed to the Porsche dealer with a fist full of money.. I was sure that was what I wanted for my next car, having never owned a P car..
I took the Cayman S for a test drive, the dealer let me take it with my friend for the lunch hour, much to my surprise.
I loved the feel of the cockpit and the seating position. Of course the looks of the car and the sophistication of it all. Throwing it hard into a corner did not illicit any drama or "excitement", for lack of a better term.. It just stuck and I had to contend with the G forces. Very similar to my vette except for more refined input and feel. Very desirable for the track and high speed runs, I'm sure.. But it did not excite in the real world.. Was more of the same for me.. I don't need or want a track car for my DD with such high limits. I had enough of that with the vette.. My test drive of the FRS made me smile as the rear came about with every corner, not sloppy or uncontrolled.. Predictable and stable.. But ready to wag its tail within real world speeds. I was hooked!
So while I may be without the prestige and sophistication of a P car.. I am appreciating a real world driving car.. with some money in the bank.. It's all good..
I love this car.. I appreciate what the OEM was able to do in such an affordable package..

Only thing I don't agree with is the transmission part, I think the FRS/BRZ trans is more consistent and shifts smoother throughout the heat range than the S2000.

That could depend on what model AP1/2 and/or year S2000 you drove. I'm fairly certain the AP2 had better shift action than the AP1.

Both, AP1 and AP2. Regardless of trans fluid.
Super sensitive to temperature, namely cold. GT86 gets notchy when cold but nothing compared to the S2000.

The S2k trans likes heat... meant to be driven hard ;)

Lets not forget it also handles a lot more torque...

The cayman tends to be the same way in my experience - it gets a bit finicky in the cold (especially second gear, at least on mine), but once you get some heat into it, it gets a lot nicer.

Weird, I never had that problem! YMMV I guess:iono:

993's are quicker than 86's, but they're not shockingly fast. My family has a 993 that I get to drive fairly often, and I feel like it's a pretty perfect road car: more power and torque than the 86 (enough to feel exciting), but also not powerful to the point where you can drive it lazily and still be fast-- you still have to work the car.

Yeah, Porsche's flat-sixes are the greatest things. They're pretty torque-y and they sound so good. Each motor sounds different, but they all sound great. I want a Porsche so badly, but I think I want something older. I really want something pre-1975 so I can do whatever I want to the car without having to smog it, but sadly I think I'll probably be priced out of that market forever now... every year prices increase massively. You can't even buy a rusted-out rolling chassis for an old car for under $10k now... it's ridiculous. Hopefully that bubble will burst at some point :\

Thank you for doing this! It's always good to see a good review of three driver's cars

Especially from someone who has extensive time with all three cars :)

You can do a youtube search... there are multiple videos of the Cayman running on buttonwillow. One video shows a Cayman R running 2:11...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0lJgG1O0to"]2012 Cayman R Buttonwillow PCA 2012/11/03 session 03 - YouTube[/ame]

Yeah unfortunately air cooled Porsche prices have been holding steady or slowly going up (for 964/993s) or skyrocketing for the older ones, especially the long nose models. Just craziness.:drool:

Wow that Cayman driver needs a little coaching...

Fixt.

fixt.

This reassures me with my FR-S purchase. But that's only because at 6"4 the FR-S is already a tad smaller than ideal. I probably couldn't do a 2k or Cayman :(

Out of curiosity, from someone who hasn't done any track days (but would like to in the near future), what are the most obvious/common errors you see in that video?

He takes the safe line and doesn't actually utilize the entire track. He also looks really tense.

More than anything, he's scared (which isn't a bad thing). Also seems like he just doesn't know the potential of his car, so he accepts what he believes to be the limit as the limit, and does not try to go beyond his self-imposed limits.

I agree - it is a great engine. I wonder if the kick you feel at 6k is due to your tune though - I don't notice much at 6k, instead, I feel a significant increase in pull as the engine climbs a bit past 4k, and then it pulls strongly (and continuously) from about 4500 to redline. The torque is great though - even at the low end, this engine definitely pulls surprisingly hard for how rev-happy it is at the top.

Stop talking about me, Mike. :sad:

If you don't plan on boosting the s2000 (no experience with them there, but the supercharged s2000 seem to be very peaky), I'd say just get the Cayman S. You obviously want more power, like N/A engines, etc. Get the car you really want.