Engine Failure (#4 Rod Bearing + Short Block)
 

I could have sworn I posted this here when it happened (back in January of this year), but I guess I didn't.

I thought I'd share the issue I had then, because my 86 is in the shop yet again for what I believe to be similar if not worse this time.

Here's what happened in January:

I was coming home with the girlfriend from an evening of shopping and dinner. I was travelling down I-485 when I started to hear a faint rattling noise. It had made noises from time to time (which I was told were normal), so I didn't think anything of it.

The noise became slightly louder after a mile and it began to worry me, which she noticed and asked me what the noise was. I turned the radio off and listened, noticing it was correlated to engine load. If I put the car into neutral it would disappear, and return once the car was in gear (fourth was most noticeable at highway speeds).

At this point I was only a mile away from my exit, but boy did the noise get louder by the second. By the time I coasted to my exit it was fairly loud when giving it throttle, first and second gear sounded horrible. I pulled into the first gas station immediately. Opened the hood and took a listen, it sounded like a spoon was banging around inside the engine, even at idle. No fluid leaks or otherwise damage from what I could tell at a cursory glance.

I was only a mile away from home, so I decided to baby it home and I made it. It is important to note, at no point did any warning lights or CELs come on. I checked my ScanGauge and no codes were stored, the system reported as ready.

The next morning I had it towed into the dealership and they took a look at it. The official verdict was #4 rod bearing had spun, disintegrated, and the short block was ruined. The technician was rather surprised himself.

They had the car back to normal within a few days and gave me a loaner, courtesy of Toyota, while the repairs took place. At this point the car barely had 25,000 miles, if that.

Here is the official report from the dealership back in January:

http://imageshack.com/a/img30/1508/yb42.jpg

Now what caused me to create this belated post is that it happened to me again, the other day (March 4th) in rush hour traffic on I-85.

This time I was in the left lane going ~65mph when I started to hear the ominous rattle begin. It was faint, and like before, I turned off my music to get a better listen. The noise became more pronounced and all I could think was please just let me get home. Well, within a mile or so the car briefly flashed all dashboard lights and abruptly turned off. Yes, I was free-rolling at highway speeds with limited steering and braking capabilities.

I amazed even myself with my quick thinking, turning on the hazard lights and trying my best to slow down without causing an accident. The right lane was not an option at this point with cars all passing me and I was running out of steam. With no other option I ended up stopping in the left shoulder.

I knew this was not a good spot, and would be difficult for a tow truck to get to me, so I decided to try to start the car. First attempt failed and it started but stalled soon after. With a sigh of defeat, I tried once more and blipped the throttle to keep it alive, which somehow worked. At this point traffic was building up ahead and people noticed my trouble so they let me limp over the to extreme right shoulder safely. The car at this point could not keep idle and stalled soon after I stopped. The whole time I felt like James May on an unfortunate Top Gear episode, with countless moments I should be saying a British expletive.

Again, at no point did any CELs come on. The car reports no codes and everything as being ready.

So now I am waiting for the verdict this time. With the car actually turning off and being unable to keep idle, I think it's even worse this time. I'm not even at 30K miles yet...

I don't even know what to feel. Anger? Frustration? Regret? Sadness? I want to love the car, I really do. It's fun to drive, looks great, and has immense potential. But with issues like this I don't know what to do. Give it yet another chance? I can't keep rebuilding my engine every oil change. I don't drive the car any different than 90% of people here, so I can't imagine I am breaking it.

I've emailed the Toyota CEOs with my experiences and frustration but some emails bounced. I'll probably give them a call tomorrow to make sure they know about this recurring issue. I'll keep you guys posted.

Sounds like a car owner / car lover's worst nightmare... I am not a praying man, but I hope it all works out for you... Please keep us updated on how Toyota handles this. Props for keeping cool both times and doing the right thing in traffic. I've seen too many 'Muricans just keep trucking along despite glaringly obvious signs their cars were not road ready... You did the responsible thing both times despite no real feedback from the dash!

Engine Failure (#4 Rod Bearing + Short Block)
 

Ouch,

I'm sorry for your troubles mate. I also hope you can get your issues resolved and get back to enjoying your car!!

Keep us posted on what happens


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Thanks for sharing, and sorry to hear about your troubles. I had a similar experience with my STI - I was going through shortblocks every 5-10k miles and after the 4th motor was put in I just ended trading in for the BRZ. Good luck, keep us updated.

Any mods to the car?

Only two mods: The TRD drop-in air filter and the Perrin crank pulley.

Did I read that correctly?

You were four quarts low on oil when you spun a rod bearing in January?

how did you run the motor in each time?

You have had an extreme case of bad luck sir. It's unfair that some guys can have a bulletproof car for 500k miles no matter how hard they abuse it, and some guys can't get off the lot with their car without it going down.

I hope things turn for you shortly.

From what the technician told me, that seems correct.

What I can't quite make out is which of these two is more accurate:

• The engine was burning oil and since #4 is the last bearing to be oiled, it spun due to low oil.
• Rod bearing #4 spun for whatever reason and since it is the last bearing, it caused an oil leak/burn.

Basically, was the oil burning the cause or an effect. I am fairly sure I only had about 2,000 miles on that oil change, so I can't imagine it would be low unless there was an issue.

What is interesting to me is... in 2013 with all this technology.. how does this car not sense something wrong throughout any of this? My 08 Civic Si would cry wolf anytime it went into limp mode because of a little mist on the intake. Here I am leaking oil like a sieve apparently, barely able to keep idle and the car says business as usual? Wild...

Not that I should have to, but I am making it a habit of checking my oil level whenever I fill up at that gas station.

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by 'run in'.

how did you drive during the "break in" period when each engine was new... Did you baby it or did you give the engine plenty of cylinder pressure and engine braking to force the rings out to the bore so they bed in properly. With poor break in it's not unheard of for a Subaru engine to burn 1L of oil every 1000km.

For the first 1000 miles I kept it under 4k (per the user manual), but after that I did not baby it. I won't deny I drive it spiritedly, but not abusive.

so you babied it for the first 1000?

Yeah. Interesting.

Do I understand correctly that Toyota paid for these repairs?

I dont understand why the manual suggests to keep it under 4k for break in, yet I keep hearing from some trusted people that you should be having a lot of fun during the break in. I just bought my frs 2 weeks ago and I havent been babying it, hard to control myself! What did everyone else do?

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you shouldn't have oil burning issues if you're loading the engine up :)

Yes, I never paid a dime for any of these repairs thus far, all covered under warranty. I was also provided a courtesy car (2014 Corolla S) for the duration of the repairs, free of charge.

That may be the most important clue, indirect as it is.

If Toyota had reason to believe the proximate cause of this engine failure was user negligence, I have to believe they'd balk at paying for this.

If Toyota uncomplainingly paid for this major malfunction, it leads me to suspect that they know something they're not admitting to you.

I wonder what that might be?

I would certainly be interested in hearing how this plays out. Perhaps you might press them for an explanation. You're certainly entitled to one, especially if you have any intention of keeping this car.

At this juncture, were I in your shoes, I would not want that car any longer; I'd want them to buy it back from me.

Whatever happens, I'm sorry to hear of these problems you're experiencing. You seem remarkably calm about it all.

I wish you the best of luck, and I'll keep an eye out for further reports from you.

Well, DANG, eriktherod ......that's a nasty series of events ..... :(

So, I figure if the engine was "burning" oil at the rate of 4 quarts for 2,000 miles ...... it would be leaving a visible smoke screen behind it.

I would wonder if the proper amount of oil was put in it at the last oil change .. ??

I figure the bearing spun because it was thirsty for oil .... not that bearing went bad and caused the massive oil loss.

Well, let's hope the next engine holds up better .... :)

humfrz

I wonder if you have a cam plate leak like others have had.

You know what's scary?

You can have rod knock from a spun bearing, and STILL not have a check engine light.

This is crazy! WOW!

Did you check the oil after the dealership (I assume since you mentioned a care package) changed it? Nothing wrong if you didn't, just curious as to root cause.

I'd gamble the greasemonkey screwed up, 4 quarts don't disappear overnight, considering capacity is nearly 6 quarts.

I agree, I think his saving grace was the dealership maintenance record. How can you point the finger saying the owner neglected it when all evidence says the owner followed the book to a T? Agreed I would be hesitant to give the car a third chance, you bet your ass I'd be going to a different service department.

This topic has had gigabytes of speculation from enthusiasts. The bottom line is do you trust the engineers who designed the car or the aftermarket community. Two sides are 'you need to be hard on the engine to get everything seated properly' or 'you need to be easy on the powertrain to wear in the friction surfaces'.

One of the big arguments is that the cars are all 'broken in' from the factory so you don't have to do any break in when you take ownership, to me that just doubles down on the idea of following OEM recommendation of taking it easy. You likely won't harm anything either way.

Hope everything goes well OP, you're definitely taking it in stride.
:cheers:

As above, there's no way 4 quarts of oil is burning away that quickly ! What's more amazing is that the engine sensors never noticed it ? Not even an oil light ? Odd :/ Always a great idea to double / triple check the oil level after service when you get home as dealers are always moving at a rate of knots that even the best of them screw up occasionally - I recently had mine done 1st service & immediately smelt an oil/grease burning odour upon start up when I picked it up. When I got home I checked the oil, then I checked a second & third time to confirm the $hit I was seeing - overfill by 1.25L = 1.3Q ! !

I reckon you either had little oil in it to begin with or a faulty bearing/block. Wish you the best.

Sorry to hear about your car issues. That'd be very odd if you spun another bearing in such a short time. What kind of oil were you using?

At least it seems they are covering it without question. This is very interesting... maybe suggest that they do an entire long block replacement. It's obvious the swapping the shortblock just led to the same failure... which reduces the chances that the issue was with either of the shortblocks themselves.

And on the STI, I was running low (half) compression in 1 or 2 cylinders, no check engine light, and still not a noticeable hit in mpg. :iono:

Today's engines are manufactured to handle just about any abuse you can throw at them. There was just an article in car and driver where they talked about the durability test used for modern day production engines. They are designed to handle abuse and neglect from the get-go. I followed the manufacturers suggestions for break-in. Just makes sense to me that all these new components and surfaces need to be broken in and form wear patterns that will last their entire service life. I've done this with all my cars and have had good experiences over the last 45 years of ownership. I don't think these practices and break in procedures are as important as they used to be in the past. But I feel it can't hurt to drive it easy for the first thousand miles or so..

I had almost the same thing happen to me. Your description of the noise was identical. Although when I heard the noise, I knew and drove straight to the dealership...it stalled out right when I parked (no CEL or any warning lights as well). This was a 2013 FR-S at 7,000kms (4,300miles) only mods were catback EVO 3 exhaust. Found out the next day motor was shot...new shortblock...etc. After that, it never had the same power it did before and kept have multiple CEL lights. I had the car for 6 months.... 3 of those months it was in the shop. After the 12th time taking it in I wrote an email to Toyota Canada and fought with them to take the car back. They wanted to keep repairing it, so I filled out all the paper work to take them to court on a Thursday, protested with a few signs in front of one of their dealerships on Saturday. Had a brand new 2014 FR-S on Monday.

This car has been great! I do understand the standpoint of Toyota as well, as they can't just give everyone a new car because they have a few problems.

My story: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...light=p5yk0t1c

Always check your oil after the dealer changes it. Last time I got it back and noticed some grease on the front bumper. I thouhgt no big deal, I'll just clean it off. Popped the hood, the grease was everywhere! I thought, "who worked on this thing? Did they do as shitty of a job with the oil change?" Checked the oil and it was at the min mark and black. They never changed it.

I would call this FR-S a lemon and demand the dealership to give me a new FR-S not one that has had two major malfunctions now...

Why would you expect to have a check engine light from a rod knock? As long as it doesn't cause a misfire, there is no failure the ECM can detect. I've been working on cars professionally for 12 years and I've never seen a check engine light set due to a "bottom end" engine failure unless the car was overrevved or overheated.

And if you read the owners manual, you should be checking the oil level every time you fill up with fuel. Takes 30 seconds. I have an STi in the shop right now where the main bearings seized due to lack of oil. I'm not saying Toyota shouldn't cover this repair, but there are steps you can take as a car owner to help prevent failures like these. Even if the repair is at no cost to you, I'm sure you'd rather be driving your car right now, right?

yikes, i just read through your entire post... seems like this 1st generation car is really plagued with problems. most of them are inconsequential (e.g., windows not rolling up, crickets), but your story and this other posting about the rear wheels locking up is pretty frightening. my car is only at 10,000 miles right now, but every bump and random clunk i hear makes me worried now...

That's what you have a warranty for.

Also, check your oil. ;)

It *is* misfiring.

Here's a video of engine #2 we lost.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=450Pov98STg"]BRZ bad idle + misfire, no CEL, stock engine - YouTube[/ame]

The knocking is so bad you can HEAR it.

did you have that crank pulley on both motors?

To be honest I can't really tell from the video if the engine is running rough or not. But when a rod bearing starts to fail, it will not necessarily cause a misfire, regardless of how loud the knocking seems to be. I've seen many rod bearing failures where the engine ran perfectly smoothly, but it's obvious from the noise that a catastrophic failure is imminent.

Without looking at the roughness monitor, it's hard to say for certain. Some "misfire" events are normal, and the severity of the misfire is what determines how long before the ECM decides to store a code.

I was just about to ask this.

Motor is 100% stock, down to the intake, Axleback (resonator) was present on both.

This is an interesting "Sherlock Holmes" mystery.

We're told that the engine suffered a spun bearing with subsequent catastrophic damage calling for replacement of the "core" of the engine.

The mechanic reported that the engine was approximately 4 quarts low on oil.

There had been an oil change (at this very dealership) approximately 2000 miles ago.

Toyota is readily paying for the repairs without objection, and even offering a free loaner in the interim.

Could the engine have consumed (burned) 4 quarts within 2000 miles?

It's barely possible, but is certainly a stretch. And as was noted, that would leave this car trailing a thick cloud of blue smoke. One would expect that to be noticed.

Leaking 4 quarts of oil over such a short time span is possible, but wouldn't the owner notice the large puddle of oil in his parking spot, garage, or driveway? That's a serious enough leak to leave ample evidence, I'd think.


The low oil, the most likely cause of the damaged bearing, could have been the result of a combination of both leaking and burning.


The mechanic working on the car did not note evidence of such a major leak.


The idea that the "tech," who performed the recent oil change, may have failed, certainly has merit. In fact, I initially found that explanation appealing. However, that explanation becomes difficult to believe when we remember that the car still had one or more quarts of oil remaining in the engine.

I can well believe that a "tech" drained the oil, and then forgot to refill the oil. But, my thought is that he either filled it or he did not. He may have over-filled it as so many do, but to fill it only a little? Just one or two quarts? It's possible, but improbable.

As an aside, a friend of ours took his brand new 1961 Porsche 356 into the Porsche dealer (in Germany) for its first oil change post break-in. They sent him on his way without any oil or even his drainplug. What? (Many Germans disliked us Americans; we were still occupation forces in the country following World War II.) Was it incompetence? Malice? Who knows. But, it happens.

How is it the mechanic on Erik's car found a quart or more of oil remaining in the pan? That's really odd, and raises doubts in my mind about the oil-change tech being the culprit.

I did not comment on it earlier, but I do not know of any way that a spun bearing could cause a massive loss of oil, short of the obvious: a con rod breaks and punches a hole in the side of the engine. Yet, we're to understand that the engine was buttoned up tight with no visible leaks following this major malfunction.

Hmm…

Anyone seen Dr. Watson around? :)

Just a note to the young folks out there, perhaps driving their first new car:

I check the oil of every new car I buy before I drive it off the lot at the dealership. (Along with other basic checks, including setting my tire pressures.)

EVERY DAY for the next month, I check the oil, whether I drive the car or not. Every day. I also check the pavement beneath the car where it's parked.

It's new, and just because it hasn't leaked yet at any of the many seals, doesn't mean it won't start leaking today. So, I check. It takes me less than two minutes.

After a month, I feel confident the seals are all good, and the tires are holding their pressure and I don't need to check them (and other things) daily.

I recommend these precautions to all new car owners.

After that, I'll check things weekly for as long as I own the car.

It's like life insurance; one does not buy insurance expecting a catastrophe, one buys it because of the catastrophic consequences in the unlikely event of death (or major oil loss). :thumbsup: