Intake dilemma
 

So I am looking to replace the stock intake on my BRZ and I have been researching/looking through forums about the intakes out there currently. But I cannot seemed to get a clear answer on which intake is the best.
First dilemma is deciding whether to get a CAI or short ram. I have read CAI is better but also short ram could be better with a heat shield or some sort of housing (forgot what it was called :iono:). But it seems only Perrin has made a true CAI and other brands are short ram.
Which brings me to my second dilemma and the reason for writing this. Which intake offers the best result? I know intake itself does not result in great power gains but out of the little gain it does produce, which one yields the best. From what I have seen/read so far, it seems Injen has the best results but then it seems AEM and Takeda also do too. I am not limiting myself on these so if you provide a better intake with proven results (i.e. dynos) it will be considered. :thumbup:
Finally, to add some notes. I care more about gains than looks. Also, I am not planning to get my ECU tuned until I get an intake AND an exhaust. So even if I decide on an intake now, I will be driving with the stock ECU for a while.

Thanks for reading this long post :party0030:

Get a drop-in filter, cheaper and same/better gains. If you really want a CAI, GrimmSpeed is wrapping up R&D on a promising prototype.

thanks for the quick reply.
I forgot to mention, I recently bought the K&N air filter and am planning to put it in this weekend :thumbup:

I saw the thread about the GrimmSpeed intake. But they haven't given a timeline of when it will be produced. I guess I could wait a while...but I am looking to get something soon.

I see that you have a Perrin intake hose. So you have left the stock intake filter? Did you feel any difference?

I bought the AEM fairly cheap. Ran it for a few months switched to stock for warranty maintenance and never went back. I like stock w/ Perrin drop in the best so far. If you plan on going w/ a tune then buy an intake but i'd only go w/ AEM, aFe, GrimmSpeed, or Perrin.

Ignore all dynos on intakes because they're all top end and have little to negative gains down low (DD rev range).

A lot of us here are regretting out intake purchases, and going back to OEM. That and OFT only supports OEM (for a reason.)

Good plan!

I agree with @tbertran ...... keep it simple, just drop in the filter ..... the stock airbox is just fine ... :)


humfrz

does changing the intake hose require a tune?

The hose after the air box, no.

Look at my post in a thread called best cold air intake. There's everything u need to know about intakes for these cars. (Didn't mean to sound cocky or like I'm a know-it-all cuz I'm not and still hav a lot to learn, but I do know quite a bit on this specific subject. I also made the same post in other threads asking the same question.)

GOOD LUCK WITH WHATEVER U CHOSE :)


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

thanks for the input. I found your post on that thread and it sounds like the best top 3 choices are Takeda, Injen, and Grimmspeed.

idk about Takeda but I've seen some thread where people were having issues with Injen. and Grimmspeed...still waiting on a production model to be tested lol

so I guess in the meantime I'll do some more research on Takeda and Injen.

*edit*
it looks like the stock airbox with a drop in filter is enough. but changing the intake tube helps a bit. so now which intake tube to go with...or are they all somewhat similar?

All somewhat similar. Drop in filter or complete intake system is my suggestion. Takeda and injen have received some complaints because if a cel issue but that happens with all products and I think they resolved that issue. No need to worry


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

To be honest with you the stock intake design is hard to improve on. In terms of results and best option any drop in filter and something that smooths out the intake design such as perrin or Supertek is going to be the best for non tuned purposes. Your not going to notice gains but response and sound improves. Almost all of the CAI so far have some draw back without a proper tune...

so you're saying an intake with a tune is going to yield better gains than drop in filter + intake hose?

Of course


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

The intake tube is only part. The air intake replaces everything and when u add a tune to the mix ur looking at at least double the power of an intake hose and drop in filter.


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

I installed a K&N filter into the stock airbox a few weeks after I got the car and didn't notice much difference in how the car behaved. A few months ago I installed a Perrin CAI with the intake tube and while I didn't feel a huge difference in performance the sound alone makes the mod worth it for me. I should mention I also got the CAI kit on sale. Had I had to pay full price I probably wouldn't have bothered.

That being said, if the OpenFlash Header was available at the time I was shopping for the intake, I probably would have gone for that. Way more performance per dollar that route.

I got the AEM intake pretty much just to clean up the engine bay a bit. It's prettier, while still maintaining an OEM L&F.

I spent a lot of time on the forums researching CAI when I finally decided to get the the K&N drop in filter. To be honest most CAI on the market for our car either showed minimal gains or they actually reduced performance. I would suggest getting the Perrin intake tube and a k&n drop in filter. You could also modify the intake snorkel duct. Subaru and Toyota did a very good job when they designed the OEM intake and currently I don't believe anyone has surpassed the excellent design.

Edit: I do believe the Perrin CAI (the one that sits within the bumper) provides good results but i do not think the results were worth the money. Plus you have to remove the bumper every time you need to clean the filter.

Just a slight correction, it's the OTS (off the shelf) maps that are tuned for the stock airbox. OFT definitely supports MAF scaling and tuning to run any intake you want.

Yea..think I'm heading in the same direction as you lol. I got the k&n filter and now am thinking about getting an intake tube. I'm considering the supertek tube though.

And I agree, the perrin CAI does seem to have good results but the fact you have to remove the bumper to install/clean the filter is not worth it for me. So that's why I was considering and asking about short rams.
Which brings me back to my original dilemma..Injen, AEM, or Takeda. b/c now it seems if I get one of those short ram intakes PLUS a tune, it will remove issues ppl are having such as CEL (hopefully) AND result in better gains than intake tube + drop in filter

Exactly


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

sorry, when you say 'Exactly', I'm assuming you are confirming that intake with a tune will result in greater gains but are you also confirming that it will resolve electronic issues such as CEL?

and I have read you post on the other thread, but if you had to choose an intake from your list (Takeda, Injen, and Grimmspeed) which one would you choose?

I'm saying ur making a good choice of intake and tune but ur also right in saying there will probably not be a CEL. I'm not sure which one if choose. I really like that grim speed has taken a lot of time and done a lot of R&D but Takeda and injen are also great choices. I'd have to look around a little I'll let u know later on. I would hav to look at the intake showcase again. I'll probably do it in a couple of hours.


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

i went with perrin inlet tube and hks filter. Butt dyno says its good, i don't normally buy into cai or any intake for that matter, but i wanted to get rid of the sound tube. This was the cheapest way out.

tbh, I am a noob at this tuning thing..this is actually the first car I am modifying lol. So when you say the sound tube, it's that box right next to the air box right? What's the purpose of that? Is it to make that rumbling sound when you accelerate? I thought that was from the resonator on the exhaust?
And what do you mean the 'dyno says its good'? ^^;;

The sound tube is a little tube coming out of the intake pipe that is routed to the cabin. Not all cars have it but this one does. It gives you the sound of the engine (not exhaust. The intake has a deep, throaty sound mixed with a bit of a suction sound. The exhaust sound is different.) if you get rid of the sound tube because you put an aftermarket intake, the aftermarket intake's design will also give you that cool sound. The resonators I. The exhaust actually take sound away. They don't change the sound though. They just quiet down the exhaust a little just like a muffler and they minimize rasp in the exhaust note.

When he says the butt dyno says it's good he means that he is satisfied and can feel the difference when he steps on the gas pedal.

On the other hand, I did my research. dsport claims a 5.6 whp gain on the injen and a 6.3 whp gain on the Takeda. The Takeda is cheaper so obviously based on that data the Takeda is better and a better bang for the buck. I'm not sure if that is so accurate though because they did not break down the top performers in each category online. I think they only did that in the magazine. They do have that for the exhaust showcase though. The K&N drop in is still the best bang for the buck. 4-5 whp for around $100. Don't do the filter and intake tube because for around the same money, you can just get a whole intake from Takeda and get better gains. If I were you, I wouldn't want to wait for grim speed to release their product, but I probably would. I would definitely get a tune from EcuTek too.

Id modify the exhaust first because changing the header for $600-$900 will completely eliminate the torque dip, give you 12-15 whp right out of the box, not have any drone, and give you sound when you want it. Is also upgrade the rest of the exhaust first and DEFINITELY a tune (this car's ecu is said to be bipolar meaning that it only performs well from the factory when it wants to. It depends on the weather conditions which is part of why people can baseline anywhere from 155whp to 175 whp.) if you just upgrade the header, get a wideband o2 sensor and take it to your local EcuTek tuner. A full exhaust and tune will run you around $3000 and will net you gains of 35whp EASILY. The intake will get you 5-6whp for $300-$40" and a tune and an intake will be a little over $1000 and will net you gains of around 12-15whp. If you are limited on money and just want to modify your car very simply, cheaply, and gain 5 horses, go with the drop in filter. That does not require a tune, but if you go with the whole intake, I would recommend it. You might just want to have it tuned without upgrading the intake and get an easy 10 horses for $750. I can't tell you what to do because it's your car, I don't know your budget, and I don't know what you use it for. It would help if you gave me a little more info.


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

Remember that everything I mentioned is a bolt-on part with the exception of the tune, so as long as you can tell the difference between a gas pedal and a headlight, you can do this yourself with some basic hand tools. Unless you know how to tune the car yourself, which i highly suggest you don't if you haven't done it and don't know how, just go to EcuTek's website and find your local tuner.

Some info I might need to help you out:
What state you live in
What the weather is normally like
What you want from the car
Any previous modifications
Which you use it for (track day, autocross, DD'ing (daily driving), hauling friends or stuff around, etc.)
If applicable, how often would you go to the track and what track (tight corners, long track?)
Anything else you might think is helpful.

Btw the injen and Takeda intakes for this car are not CAI, so you don't need to take the bumper off to clean the filter.


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

I forgot what dsport said but they also said that there was one of the intakes that could only generate noticeable power if you hav an EcuTek tune but I forgot which one. The article online doesn't have everything. The magazine also had each intake tuned and compared tune vs. w/o a tune for every intake. Sorry but I just saw the article sitting on the newsstand. I don't have the actual magazine.

Btw, sry for the triple post.


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

Okay, just to clarify, CAI means "Cold Air Induction". It doesn't matter where the filter is located, just where the air in pulled from. The stock intake setup? CAI. The Takeda intake? CAI. The AEM intake? CAI. The Injen intake? Not CAI. As long as the intake pulls air from outside the engine compartment(like from in front of the radiator) it is a CAI.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50492

Read all of this thread

I must've not looked at the setup closely enough b/c I thought all three were short ram intakes since they were placed in similar locations =/

But a real CAI (air filter at bottom) will get better results. Technically, if the air is taken from down there, it's a CAI, so ur right.


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

thank you for the great replies and info! :thanks: if you could be so generous and enlighten me on where I can find these showcase examples? (i.e. websites/magazines) :thumbup:

so for some insight on my future plans...

eventually I am planning to get a full exhaust system, starting from the header. I still have to do some research on which header to choose, equal vs unequal and which company. for the exhaust, as of now I am choosing to go with the Perrin CBE. Also I am looking into the Motiv HFC (being the noob I am..I'm assuming it will fit with the Perrin CBE lol).
So according to your advice..I should get the header and exhaust first, then decide on an intake, then get it tuned. and I think I will do that. that'll probably be it for power modifications.

I am also planning to do some suspension upgrades and am still in the process of researching for it.

so what I want out of my car is to have great handling. I know it's already one of the top handling cars out there on the streets stock wise but I want it to hug the corners when I turn. so I will be focusing mostly on suspension/tires/weight reduction modifications. I do plan to take it to the track and hopefully drift around once I have enough mods. I probably won't take it to the tracks that often since this is my DD car lol but once in a while when I'm bored :lol:

in summary, I want a DD car with some power (for the highways) that can turn on a dime (for local and backroads) which I can take it to the track once in a while to have fun (aka drifting) :w00t:

hope this info helps

true..but I haven't seen anyone produce that type of design yet for the brz =/ and plus there's the issue of water for those types of design. so that's why I was considering to opt for the short ram intake with a heat shield or a box cover.

The showcases were on dsport magazine. You can find them on their website or go to their YouTube channel and watch the videos. Remember though, for the intake showcase, they only rated peak power.

I like the idea of the full exhaust. We think alike :D

I strongly recommend the FT86SpeedFactory UEL header. It's hard to determine which design is superior when you compare EL and UEL. If you compare a knock-off EL that was made in China to the FT86SF header, UEL is waaaaaay better and vice versa. You also have to determine if you want a cat (catalytic converter) in your header. This catches some of the crap that comes out of the engine so that it doesn't pollute so much. Depending on your tune and fuel, it can get ruined, but that takes a while. It usually makes the exhaust note less raspy, it makes it quieter, it's extra weight, and it robs horsepower. I wouldn't ever run a cat if I upgraded a header. Some states like California test your vehicles emissions, so you would need a clean emissions system an engine that runs good to pass the test and not get any fines. I don't live there, and my state doesn't do that test, so although your aren't supposed to take it out, no one will give you crap for taking it out if you're in Florida.

By the way, all if not most aftermarket exhaust parts will fit together. Why do you want a high-flow cat?

If you're on a budget and want some power now, get the FT86SF header and tune it. You will eliminate the torque dip, not increase noise, get that badass UEL sound, get sound when you want it without drone, get rid of the bipolar ECU, and gain a reliable 20whp without sacrificing a noticeable amount of fuel economy. If anything, it'll go up.

The Perrin CBE is not super loud or quiet. If you end up getting a full exhaust and you're worried about noise, all you have to do is pick a quiet CBE. One example is the Invidia N1. It's a great exhaust, and it's a little on the louder side. The Invidia Q300 is the exact same exhaust, but it has a different muffler. Even with a full, catless exhaust, you will not experience drone with a CBE like that. Go to FT86SF's channel to check out the header with a stock and full exhaust and some other exhaust sound clips.

For suspension upgrades, it depends on your budget. Here is what I recommend:

Really cheap: eibach lowering springs (sportline is stiffer and gives you better handling. Pro kit is softer, gives you a more comfortable ride.) This will lower the car 1.4 inches. The springs are also slightly stiffer than stock. They cost around $250. The springs still keep the same ride quality as stock according to reviews
Cheap: Eibach sportline/pro PLUS kit. This is the springs, front and rear sway bars, and the bushings for the sway bars. It's around $400.
Average: Tein coilovers (anywhere from $900-$1k+) this is signifca toy stiffer, you can adjust the damper, you can adjust the amount that you lower the car, and deepening on how much you spend, you can adjust more. There are some affordable 36-way adjustable ones. Excellent choice. It'll drop that car anywhere from .5-4 inches. I strongly recommend sway bars which will be another $200 (Eibach)
Expensive: KW V3 coilovers. ($2300 or something) AWESOME COILOVERS!!! Some of the best on the market. Stiffer spring rate that results in better response, feel, and cornering ability, a lot of adjustment, so you don't have to lose much ride quality at all. I can go on and on, but these coilovers are just awesome. I recommend sway bars too.

Additional:

Wheels and tires on this car is a must!!! For some bang for the buck, I recommend Enkei RPF1. Not a great looking wheel, but they are super strong, and high quality at a relatively low price for that type of wheel. I recommend the size 18x9 or 18x9.5. That should fit on a 245/35/18 tire with no problems with rubbing against the car or anything like that. One of the very best tires money can buy is the Michelin Pilot Super Sports. The wheels will help the car turn easier, accelerate faster, gain whp, etc because it's rotational mass. The car comes with terrible tires, so any high performance summer tire will completely change the car for the better. Go to tirerack.com.

If you want to drift at least some of those suspension mods are super helpful. You're also gonna want rotors and pads. If you want to save money, go to FT86SpeedFactory.com, and look at their brake packages (Not the big brake kits). If not, get the rotors you want, pads for the front and rear, brake fluid, and stainless steel lines. I recommend Hawk HP+ pads. Another good mod is the master cylinder brace. It enhances the feel of the brake pedal and it's only $100. You might also want to adjust the E-brake to your liking.

Other mods:

When you get your exhaust parts, I recommend that you wrap them in heat wrap. This makes the exhaust hotter, making the exhaust flow better and fast, and it insulates the pipe, keeping heat away from the air intake and stuff. Get DEI titanium heat wrap with LF technology or whatever it's called. Simple, cheap mod.

Our cars runs hot, so I strongly suggest that you get a radiator and oil cooler from mishimoto.

You might want to lower rotational mass with a crank pulley, driveshaft, and flywheel. This increases throttle response and horsepower.

You may also want to consider little things like a shifter bushing, short shifter, shift springs, or transmission mount from whiteline, Perrin, kartboy, MTEC, etc to just make the car feel more fun. The shift knob even makes a big performance and aesthetic difference. Heavier shift knobs can just be slapped into gear, and shorter ones can help you feel the transmission. The stock one may be fine for you though.

You might also want to think about aesthetics like winjet headlights, shark fin antenna clear side markers, a body kit, 5:AD spoiler, diode dynamics led kit, toms tailights etc. Doing some work to areodynamics is a good idea too. Although the Rexspeed body kit is a little pricey, it's functional, subtle, and good looking. It lowers drag (air resistance) and increases downforce (the force of air pushing the car down. It gives you stability.) the driveway labs diffuser is also cool and functional in the same way. It might not fit very exhaust though. The OEM diffuser is cool too but not functional. Check out the My interior Redesign thread to see some cool stuff. I suggest that you get the OEM armrest too. You might also want to upgrade the stereo. Go to crutchfield.com to learn all about that.

Window tint

With all that, you're gonna want an alarm!!! Clifford makes some of the best stuff out there. Check out their website.

Note: I had a lot of ideas when I wrote this, so I probably forgot a lot. Sort about that. I'll reread it and add something if I remember ;).

BEST OF LICK!!!


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

I don't know why the location of the filter media would make a difference. Is the stock intake that pulls air through the snorkel a "fake" CAI? Even though the opening of the snorkel and the spot where the filter sits on Perrin's CAI are in the exact same place? ANY intake that pulls air from outside the engine compartment is a CAI. You don't want the air inlet too low either. I would rather have the air pulled from higher up, as air closer to the pavement is usually a higher temperature due to the pavement heating it up.

The Perrin CAI is more of a real CAI than the stock one. The snorkel design is a restriction on the stock one which is one reason why it doesn't perform as well. Having the actual filter there would make it a real CAI. The stock one is technically a partial CAI. A manufacturer would never put a real CAI on a car because they would spend too much money fixing hydro locked engines. The snorkel position is pretty O.K. For a stock intake which is one reason why I said the stock intake isn't bad; it can be improved. Technically, you are right, but when I say fake or real I mean that the stock "semi-CAI" won't give you the best results, and it's not just because of a stock part. The whole thing needs little adjustments.


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

For it to be considered a CAI the filter element needs to be down there like the Perrin unit. Like I said, TECHNICALLY, you are right; the stock one is a CAI. Is say that it's more of a semi-CAI because of common sense and the placement of the filter and snorkel. A manufacturer wouldn't put a true CAI on any of their cars because they would be spending way to much money on warranty claims, and it lowers fuel economy.

I'm never really cocky or arrogant or something, but I think I might know just a little more than you at least on this topic based on my posts vs. yours. Don't mean to be rude though.


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p

Writing a lot and knowing a lot are two different things. I've seen several statements in your posts that I disagree with based on testing from grimmspeed and the first hand tuning accounts of other members. I'm too lazy and disinterested to go through and point out the problems. You are a false authority, and I know you are trying to help, but I don't think you are. Reading a dsport article doesn't make you an expert anymore than reading all the crap I've read makes me an expert.

You do make a good point. I can write everything I want, and it doesn't mean I know a lot. Id say my last post was a little bit aggressive, but I think I do know what I'm talking about. By the way, I didn't really mean to start some kind of argument. That's not the point of the thread. The point was for the OP to determine which intake is best for him or her. You say that you disagree with some of the points I made. That doesn't mean I'm wrong, but I might be. Can you please tell me what you disagree with? I might be wrong, I don't want to post bad information. The reason I'm here is to inform or to be informed for the most part. Also, the way you worded your post kinda rubbed me the wrong way. My only source wasn't the dsport article. I just mentioned that because I saw it, and I thought OP wanted to see it. Yes, I am trying to help, and I think I have. Again, if you can correct me, please do. I want to be educated and then educate others.

On the other hand, what I meant by CAI was the aftermarket. Yes, the stock intake is a CAI, but it can be improved. (@zooki you're right).


For me, there is no glide in pulse and glide :p