BRZedit and boost. (also wondering BRZedit vs ECUtek with boost)
 

How many people here are tuned with BRZedit and boosted? Or has any tuner shied away from it? I keep hearing people says BRZedit sucks for boost from multiple locations but never really see it on the forum. :thanks:

And yes i used the :search:

I used it up until ecutek was available for end user tuning. It's fatal flaw is the inability to implement a proper boost cut. Having had wastegate lines pop off once and melt through a second time, this matter a lot to me lol. Aside from that it's perfectly workable. It's no racerom, but it'll do the job if necessary.

I wouldn't recommend it given the other options available though. Support is absolutely nonexistent, and the product hasn't been updated once in the entire time I've owned it. If you're not willing to shell out the money for racerom (which you really, really should on a turbo car, or any that you intend to tune yourself), I'd go with oft and deal with it's shortcomings before giving epifansoft my money. It is at least well supported from what I can tell.

But really, just do yourself a favor and buy racerom. Could've saved me months of headaches had it been available to begin with. Custom maps alone make it worth twice the cost. Boost control, flex fuel, custom traction control, whatever you want. It's no contest. Nothing else comes close on features. The others are just cheaper, and when you're building a turbo car cheaper is rarely better.

Its not that bad. I used to have Ecutek and their map switching implementation sucks. Flex fuel is BS imo. I'm a firm believer that the tool is only as good as the hands operating it.

Plus, epi has been very very responsive with me via email. 24 hour turnaround at most. Better than I ever got with anyone else. I have launch control and no lift shift on a reliable tune that is producing great power. That meets my criteria.

I spent thousands of dollars fucking around with John and Tony on e-tunes with Ecutek. Wait a waste. Had I started with BRZedit and the local tuner I have now, I would have saved a shit load of $$$.

Plus when I finally lose it, I'm going Motec which is when the real tuning starts. Stock ECU tuning will always have limitations.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I've never gotten an email response from Epifan except when I bought the software. Must be selective...

And yeah if my experience with ecutek was based on an etune from Visconti and fa20club i'd likely feel the same way. A local tuner will always win that battle, regardless of the software used.

If you plan on actually using the software to tune your car though, my point remains. It's just way more powerful.

I wish I had the time and energy to prioritize learning engine management systems. I rely on others. :)

Eat your vegetables..

MAP is using BRZedit to provide base maps for their newly released turbo kit. Shiv and the OPenFlash folks are doing vortec and phantom super charger maps using open flash. Both of these solutions use the stock rom image, they are just different tools for editing and flashing the stock rom. The stock rom is fully capable of supporting boost, though you may loose a couple features in comparison to EcuTek as @jamesm stated above.

I currently have BRZedit. I was the First car tuned at PREracing in Feb 2013. @evan you have had flawless support because all the B.s I had to put up with. Esp once FFS came out. (PRE only got BRZedit because I kept bugging jason in 2012 to get it.) They were going to get ECUtek but they dislike the software and company and got BRZedit on release.

Like when my car was N/a and FFS first came out. Car was flashed but on FFS the car would stick at W.e RPM I shifted into for a good 3 seconds then would rev. Would also squeal my belt. FFS timing values were way off on my first Innovate tune causing issues. There has just been countless issues I have had with BRZedit. Wondering some real facts that tuners can share. Also I cannot data log my own car. I had them take FFS off my car because of the countless issues. (I never liked how I couldn't change the launch control RPM unless I had the tuner do it or how FFS was always set at damn near redline to correct issues)

Innovate even told me ditch BRZedit for ECUtek. But i'm struggling to keep that mentality. Would be nice if an actual tuner who has used both software could step in and give their 2 cents. I'm giving PRE and BRZedit one last chance. Otherwise i'm making the switch. The last time I had my car tuned I told them to keep the car as long as they want. Didn't want to pick it up with any tuning issues. Yet there are still issues like 2k rpm jerk and no power on start. Or stutter at 2kish RPM's. It's just getting to the point to where I fear for my engines life. But we shall see after my next visit.

But if any tuners can give accurate advice or knowledge that would be great. I'm no tuner. Never bothered to understand the software. But I almost think it's time to start digging. I've never had this many issues with any car in the past tuning wise. Not even our 400whp 400wtq low boost monster.

i have tuned with both pretty extensively. brzedit has absolutely nothing at all on ecutek aside from the fact that it is cheaper and the logger is nicer. it also has map tracing, which is kinda cool but not particularly useful. in terms of capability though it's lightyears behind ecutek. ecutek allows you to do virtually anything you want. that cannot be overstated. it's in a completely different ballpark in terms of capabilities. you can come up with an idea and just implement it. no need for a stock map that may kinda-sorta be able to be repurposed into what you need, no hacking. you just do whatever the hell you want, create whatever maps you want that take whatever inputs you want and modify whatever output channel you want (within the limitations of what is currently available as far as input/outputs, which is pretty much everything you'd want). it's not even a contest.

i can tell you though your problems have nothing to do with software. you can tune a car to perfectly stock-like drivability with either platform. if you're tuner is unable to accomplish this with brzedit, new software isn't going to help.

@NickFRS, I had no idea that your problems with the tune were bad to this extent. I really feel for you. I'm going to PRE tomorrow and will talk to Jason/Erich. @DarrenDriven is tuned on the same software and tuner. Have you reached out to him for his thoughts? Either way, I can never justify e-tunes. They suck. I'm sorry to those who might be offended by that. I simply don't see the value in Ecutek the way @jamesm does. I've owned it twice and tried e-tunes with two different tuners. The process was unprofessional at best.

Either way, debating which OEM ECU tuning solution is better will net little in terms of core differences. I have had my eyes on a standalone solution for a long while now. Tuning on Motec will be much better than both. Only the investment and indecision on end goal are stopping me right now. We will see..

Eat your vegetables..

When you say map tracing, do you mean live or recorded playback?

I recently found out that if you keep the maps open on ECUtek when you're connected to the ECU it will highlight which cells are in use.

With FFS it was software based. (was right when it was released) It took 3 weeks for BRZedit to respond and fix the FFS tables. With my current 2k stutter n what not the tuner has my cars timing reduced by 15-17 degree's till 1700 rpm. Never happened till retune when he reduced the timing this much. It is tune related. When the car is in it's lug of no timing then spurts into timing zone at 2k it jerks. Deff not the car's natural behavior. PRE is going to try a different "technique" on tuesday. The car is also tuned way differently then the first tune. There was lots of issues with WAY TO MUCH timing in the low end n what not. They learned that while tuning another customers car then had to reflash the 4 other customers including me to fix the issue. And that's coming from the Tuner. Thanks for clearing some things up though. :)


I have. I don't want to speak for Darren or others though. I've also already talked to jason. I'll have a further discussion with him when I come in tuesday. No need for someone else to speak for me. i've been doing business with PRE since 2010. Also wouldn't be doing Remote tuning. Id be switching to drift office like josh and wally have done and utilize ECUtek. Josh was very un satisfied with his tune. Wally followed suit with Kevin. Thats a discussion for another day or PM! ;) I've been talking to them while they re-work josh's car. I am hearing some promising and concerning details. I'll be doing my 2 year Ownership review soon though. Everything will come to light to the community with lots of reviews and break down of the car and issues. It hasn't been smooth sailing!

@NickFRS.. Don't worry buddy, I wasn't planning on speaking with them on your behalf. You're a big boy.. You can handle yourself. ;)
My discussion with them was going to be very specific around the new tuning work that Erich is now doing with BRZedit. I don't plan on switching to anybody else ever unless I move out of state. I'm very impatient when it comes to dealing with non-local resources (in the tuner world) and we are fortunate to have PRE local to us. Nothing is perfect. Nobody is perfect. There is no magic pixie dust. I've said this before. I know this even in my own work. How things are identified and addressed is more important..

I know it hasn't been smooth sailing for you, but keep on top of it and I'm sure it will all work itself out. I've had my frustrations some days as well. I think some of the local guys can attest to that. I even went out and bought two books on understanding and tuning engine management systems (when I have a little bit of time to dedicate) just so that I feel empowered when having discussions with my tuner. I don't plan on becoming a tuner. I have my hands full at the moment in my own work. :)

Eat your vegetables..

you don't see the value because you didn't use it to tune a car. you used it to flash someone else's tune on your car. the value lives in the software itsefl... the capabilities it gives you as a tuner.

I'm not a tuner @jamesm and I never will be. I don't care much for the minutia between the tools. I care about the end result and the experience with my tuner. The end result and tuner experience works for me. Happy customer. Nothing more to see here.. :)

I have this discussion all the time with people in my business. They don't care about the technicals. They have their own focus areas. I can respect that. We can't all know everything about everything all of the time. We then rely on each other to get us through life, regardless of the task at hand.

Eat your vegetables..

@evan you had a bad experience with vendors that e tuned. Not ecutek it's self. I've played with brz edit and I have hundreds of hours in exutek and quite a long time in rom raider. I like brzedit a log viewer quite a bit but that's pretty much where the list ends. Ecutek responds to my emails typically in 10-20 minutes.

You should be posting your view on tuners not tools. This confuses end users. You can now buy ecutek and go to any local tuner and have your car tuned using your own license.

@nelsmar While I understand your thoughts on the matter, my point remains. I don't see any reason (especially in my supercharged application) why Ecutek is better than BRZedit from a core tuning perspective (the extra features are just bonuses IMO). I have owned Ecutek twice now and spent far too much money on it and tunes. I now own BRZedit. I'm dyno tuned on BRZedit and my car is making great power and running well. It wouldn't make any financial sense to dump BRZedit and go back to Ecutek. When I make the jump to the next level (more power, more complexity), I will be looking at Motec.

Eat your vegetables..

You are going at this all wrong. You dumped your tuner. You should go with your tuners preference period. And I my self was going to buy a motec and had quite a few extensive conversations with them, however once ecutek release public tuning with custom maps even though it was a flash based system (which I hate) I dropped my motec plans as motec couldn't do some of the stuff I wanted to do in ecutek.

Whether I am or not, it doesn't matter anymore. Like I previously stated, I'm happy with BRZedit and my tuner. My tuner is happy with BRZedit. We'll all have our preferences. Have a great day guys!! :)

Eat your vegetables..

This is a much better comment! :P Its a shame that so many e-tuners have really just destroyed the image of ecutek as a tuning tool.

that's fine, but you're not really commenting on the tool then. you're commenting on your experience with a person who used it. that's just important to make clear.

I've been using this tuner since 2010 and they prefer BRZedit. Just like i've said above. But might be making the switch to ECUtek if they cannot deliver.

My real question is what makes ECUtek so much better the BRZedit when it comes to tuning boosted cars. I keep see "lightyears away" but no explanation.

Mac or PC? Lol

Eat your vegetables..

I'm a Windows and Linux guy. I hate Apple and OSX with passion. By preference of course..

Eat your vegetables..

Exactly this. Power and flexibility, provided in large part by custom maps. Having real, responsive support is another big thing.

And no one has to pay me anything. I use it because it's flat-out better. I was hugely anti-ecutek until I realized just how much better it was when they opened it up to the masses. I'm an open source guy too (I contribute to open source software every single day), but when something makes your life easier and allows you to do a better job, you don't let ideology get in the way. Same reason i use a mac even though you'd probably think I was a linux guy lol.

I can vouch for jamesm the entire reason I met him was due to me attempting to contribute to the open source Ecu platform. I was working on a hardware datalogger and had hoped he could lend me a hand. We ended up talking often since then and I kept ending him to ecutek and he was pro open source like me for a number of reasons. He is saying te exact reasons I was considering ecutek my self. It's funny seeing it from this side of the fence. Because every reason he gives I was ficiing him 3 months ago. He used every defense and then some above what others have aid as he is an active developer such as my self and is strong towards the "if it doesn't exist and I have the source I will do it my self" attitude. I know he is starting to sound sales man like but it's for a legitimate reason. I have used ios source and free based Ecu platforms dating back roughly ten years. In this time I have learned that support and specific desired feature sets are worth their weight ten times in gold. He even fought me on my defense line of support. But here he is preaching what I was preaching. When it comes to tuning go with what your tuner wants. In my case and James for our own vehicles we have used each available flash based platform and ecutek blows everything out of the water. The custom map ability to control cam phasing and ignition tables on the dyno alone safe the money it cost me to purchase ecutek when tuning. And this is coming from someone that was about to pull the trigger on a motec Ecu with a "money isn't a problem" attitude. I have learned my lesson over the years and that lesson was nothing is worth more to me than tuning platform. And although I hate a lot of exutek, not even motec could support features I wanted that I can makes self in custom maps in ecutek.

Now if only we had spare pics we could solder into the Ecu for extra input and output!!!

that's not true at all fwiw. You can still install regular apps just like you could before. Nothing at all has changed in that regard. It works exactly like it used to, only now you can use the store if you want and get it all in one spot, auto updates, etc. it's a package manager with a paid option lol.

Personally as a developer I love it, it gives me the opportunity to put product in front of a large audience with no up-front cost and is cheaper than any other method of reaching the same number of eyeballs.

If anything it has driven the price of software down. That's the argument you hear against it in the development world, that it creates a race to the bottom and floods the market. Pretty much exactly the opposite of your argument.

Android has an App Store. Ubuntu has an App Store. Both are functionally identical to apples. It's fine to dislike apple, but at least come up with a valid reason (which I agree there are plenty of lol).

At the end of the day using a mac, just like using ecutek, makes what I do easier and allows me to be more productive. That's all that matters to me.

The iOS on phones doesn't allow "sideloading" of apps. (well, it does, but its fairly complicated(jailbreak+), much moreso than rooting an android and clicking a check box to allow install from unknown sources).

Things have changed quite a bit since mid last year:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1016142

Eat your vegetables..

Yeah, I am pretty disappointed with the drivability of the car. I recently took the car back to PRE to have some issues resolved (low RPM knocking, 6500 RPM power cutoff) and they updated the tune -- removing the FFS and launch control that I never used a single time. I was a little surprised that they retuned the car without even putting it on the dyno... seems to me that the only way you could do it correctly would be to witness how the engine is responding in real time.

Now I have almost no power below 2000k (not that I am trying to race it down there, but you need some power just not to kill the car) and I can feel surges of power up the RPM range as I keep the throttle constant.

I am happy with how the car feels up top now, but it seems like I shouldn't have to sacrifice drivability in order to have that.

that was prior to ecutek opening up to the rest of us, or even letting us see what it could do. we make the best call we can with the information available at the time, and at that time that was how i felt base on what information was then available. you're right, things have changed a lot since then.

you're correct, you should never have to sacrifice anything at all when tuning one of these cars for boost. every car i've tuned drives as good as or better than a stock 86. this of course assumes you have a decent MAF, because without that it's pretty hopeless. you can tune around a bad MAF, but it's pretty much impossible to make it perfect. Luckily i've only seen one car with a MAF bad enough to impact drivability, and those kits have since been revised to fix the problem that was causing the issue.

it's just a time-consuming process to make it happen, and most aren't willing to put in that time (i spend an average of 4-8 hours just drivability tuning a car on the street before we ever get into boost). it's also not technically feasible to do via e-tuning without serious liability concerns for the tuner (it requires a certain level of restraint that most tuner's can't trust their customers to employ lol).

if you're car doesn't drive better than it did the day you bought it, and the car is mechanically sound, it's not the car's fault.

That's what I thought... but I just don't feel like pestering the tuner over and over and over to get it right when I think that it should have been right the second time.

you paid the money... it's his job to make it right. pester away lol.

My tuner was lazy and you can see where that got me...

@jamesm.. Tune us, Save us from all those before us who did our ECU wrong. Surely you are planning on selling your ECU services..

Eat your vegetables..

i can't comment on that at this time :). suffice to say i'm a licensed ecutek tuner already.

This.... I'll let you know how Tuesday goes Darren...

I heard eggs were good, I ordered them at Waffle House. They sucked, I did not like them. Therefor all eggs are crap and I'm switching to grits because my cook suggested it.

Sounds like what my car feels like, thus me taking it to Drift Office instead. Results on that decision hopefully later this week.

@vgi.. The reality is that I spent an assload of money (and time!) on Ecutek before BRZedit. Started with Toni. Bought two locked tunes, cable and license. Toni was not very responsive and his tunes were subpar. Switched to John and bought two tunes. John was not very responsive and his tunes were subpar. All the time, my local tuner warning me that e-tunes are not very good and that it is better to dyno tune locally. (This was before Ecutek opened it up for anybody to be able to tune themselves. How nice of them..) Local tuner uses BRZedit and I now know to use the tool that my tuner prefers. That's how I ended up with it. Although I don't have a problem with Ecutek (I was one of the first in my area to buy into it), I'm not going back now. Financially, it makes no sense. If I do change, I'm just going to spend extra and go Motec. @jamesm is not local, otherwise I would challenge him to build a better tune.

On a slightly related note: My experience on this platform, between all the shitty vendors and scam artists has been utter crap. If I knew it was going to be like this, I would have skipped on the platform and bought something better established. I had a lot of fun with my old f-body and none of these issues. To be honest, this will be my last import.

Eat your vegetables..