Why does cold air on my TOYOTA 86 come off as hot ? Without AC on.
 

Hi guys I'm new to the forum and a couple strange things have been happening with my new toyota 86 FT . I live in argentina, and bought the car a couple weeks ago. Strange and odd things started happening from High fuel consumption , when I talk about high fuel consumption I mean average of 18Litres for 100km which is totally unacceptable.
Then something which called my attention was, that as soon as someone got inside the car, the windshield and all the windows started to slowly get damp and steamy. I don't know why. If water came inside the car by some reason. I checked and the rubber grummets from the rearside of the car which the dealer had to put in place at the pre inspection weren't settled in place. So this week I'm going for those 2 rubber grummets to be placed in the rear end of the car. Maybe some water vapor came inside. But don't think so.
I just want to know if any of you are going through this . FInally whenever I shift the knob on the HVAC system without air conditioning on instead of COLD air getting inside the cabin I feel the air getting inside is totally warm like if I was using the knob for heating. Like the only way for cold air to get inside is turning on AC totally odd.
Is this a factory issue ? what should I do

The issue with your vents/A/C not being on is normal. I have that same issue in my FR-S (Chicago). I am not sure if there is a fix for it, but it's most likely the engine heating up the air prior to it being funneled into the cabin.

As for high fuel consumption, as the engine breaks in, that should get better. However, to get the best gas mileage, you are going to have to keep your RPMs under 3K or at the very least under 4K. I am averaging 23.7 MPGS since September, 2013. I sit in traffic, etc. an awful lot and otherwise am not trying to hyper-mile or try to get the best mileage.

Hi So many thanks !!!. So what's happening in your case. you're having warm air blowed in , instead of cold air. I don't think this is normal. Like the only way for cold air to get inside the cabin is using AC, this is crazy.
Then about the windows getting steamy as soon as someone gets in or you start breathing, does this happen to you as well ?. Thanks adam

I'm not an expert in HVAC so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If you don't have the AC then the system isn't cooling the air. It's just pushing air into the car, so you're pulling in warm air. This is how it is with every car. You can make it warmer, but only as cold as it can pull in.

Your windows getting steamy are another side effect of not using the AC. The AC actually dries the air out. What you're seeing is the moisture in the air settling on your windows because of the difference in temperature outside versus inside. Kinda like how a glass will sweat if you leave ice water in it, I suppose. The same thing can happen when it's cold outside and you have the AC off, blowing hot air.

I know what you're saying but take this into account, my previous car which a super ancient toyota celica liftback GT 1979 , when I set the air to cold air to be blown , it does blow cold air, it's not getting in as hot air.
This is what drove me mad. Cause even if I push the button to recirculate air shifting the knob to blue air is getting in warm not even cold. I want to know if this is happening to me only or anyone with the FRS / TOO 86.
Now on the other hand about the windows starting to get steamy , what really worries me is if water has gotten inside the car by some reason.
If you have read my initial statement , the rubber grummets from the rear of the car weren't placed by my deale those rubber grummets are removed for carrying the car and afterwards they need to be placed for odors not to get inside the cabin. Im worried water might have settled in already and the steam i'm starting to see slowly is a product of that.
Any ideas? I don't know if came across the thread of a guy saying the rear suspension strust don't have the rubber plugs placed and some water came up from there, producing condensation. So I'm getting really worried.
Thanks anways.

Yep, I agree with Adam Anthony, the "vent air" is ducted through a series of channels that are (unfortunatly) heated by the engines heat.

So, @dssence, you can either open the window, turn on the A/C or ..... punch the recirc button, to shut off the vent (which helps somewhat).


humfrz

Yea seems like all new cars you have to push that recirc button.

At least the brz it stays pushed when you shut the engine on/off. My speed3 I had to push it every sngle time I started the car.

So all of you guys either BRZ owners or scion go through this whenever you shift the knob for cold air to get in the vents, if you don't push the recircle button air comes in heated instead of cold ? . only solution is to turn on AC?

The A/C is unfortunately normal.

What's happening is that when recirc is off, it draws fresh air from under the hood on the passenger side. Depending on what's going on, it may be getting hot air. When your engine is cold it's fine, and there's certain speeds where there is sufficient airflow, but normally the hot air from the engine bay is just going into the intake. Some members have had some amount of success by putting additional weatherstrip seals in front of the HVAC intake to isolate it from the engine bay.

There's also a claim going around that the HVAC 'remembers' the temperature it was on when you turn it off, so if you have the heat on, no recirc, and turn it off, it will continue to allow hot air in. But I haven't verified that.

Fogging up is pretty normal when you're blowing in some warm air.

That could be contributed to the R12 freon used then vs the R134A used now.

Yes, the only solution to keep the inside from fogging up is to have the AC on.

I know for the FR-S if the AC is off the air coming out of the vents is not cooled or dried even if the temperature knob is set to cold/blue (cold/blue just means not heated). This reduces load on the engine and helps fuel economy.

Some cars run the AC compressor on a low setting all the time, meaning the air is cooled and dried a very small amount even with AC in the off mode. Turning on the AC in these cars runs the AC compressor on full.

In the FR-S, AC off mean the compressor is not running at all. AC on means the compressor is running at full capacity.

I did talk about only the fan blowing cold air not AC on.

Yes that's why I said it's totally crazy , that my previous super ancient car toyota celica Liftback GT 1979 model , could blow cold AIR fine meaning the air coming into the cabin either recycled or from the outside is cold, by cold I mean no AC on at all. And in this new car if I shift the knob to cold blue the air keeps being hot, and besides that the windshields keep getting foggy easily by no apparent reason ( i'm at least ttrying to discard the rubber grummets not placed, being the culprit, or some water got inside the car)
This should be named as a design flaw. I don't think cars like ferraris or veryron if you let the air to be blown as cold gets in as hot from the engine bay?. Or is it like that
Talking about the AC my model has the normal HVAC system no automatic climate control . Does this mean the compressor runs on all the time ? and on the automatic climate control version of the tOYOTA 86 the compressor turns on and off to save fuel economy I never understood that.

Was it winter?


This is about the dumbest thread on the internet. If the vent is on and A/C is off, your "cold" will only be as cold as ambient temp. As you move towards hot, it will pass increasing amounts of air past the heater core.

This is how every car has been made since the beginning of time.

Correct, and that's not happening. COLD is not blowing as ambient temp but as ambient as you may name but coming from the engine bay itself which by the way it's not COLD. Like why the hell it's not taking the air from the outside instead of the inside of the engine bay.

Do you also expect your air intake temps to be the same as ambient? The pipe through which the air is traveling has been heated by the engine. When you first turn on your car, I guarantee it's damn near ambient coming out of your vents.

EDIT: To be clear - red is hot, blue is cold.

What is the ambient temp you experience this at?

Oh boy...we've had huge arguments on this forum about the "warm air from vents, even on full cold" issue.

Some of the lesser intelligent posters insisted all cars do this, while numerous others(myself included) have never owned a car that did this and we aren't retarded. Vent on full cold always equaled cool/cold air inside, as expected...not on this car.(OF COURSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COOL WEATHER!)

The only solution I have found is to tun the temperature setting all the way to hot, then turn the vent selector all the way over to one of the last 3 settings, any of the three that has the defog icon(the little windshield icon). Then turn the temp to cold and wait a few seconds, then return the vent selector back to the setting you want.

1) temp all the way hot
2) turn vent to 1 of the 3 defog settings(last 3)
3) temp back to cold, wait a few seconds
4) vent back to...


It usually works. This is the result of a cheaply designed A/C system. And when the people come in claiming all their previous cars did this too, my response is that those were also cheaply designed A/C systems. Hondas haven't done this in the 20+ years I've driven them, so obviously an A/C system CAN be built/designed where warm/hot air doesn't come in when on the full cold setting...unless of course it is hot outside, not the 60F degree or less outside air we are talking about.

You realize defrost runs the A/C compressor, right?

Of course, that's why it is important to use one of the last 3 vent settings to activate the process. Doing this somehow closes the "leak" that is allowing engine air instead of actual outside air into the vents and also obviously cools the air still inside the plumbing since the compressor has come on temporarily.

I've been doing it for the last 2 months, it does work and something is definitely happening in the process. However, sometimes it requires a couple attempts, but when it works the air has clearly gone from warm to cold, and yes, the vent is now on a setting that does not have the compressor running. I only use the first three(face, face/floor, floor).

In the other threads about this, the people that acknowledged the issue but didn't dismiss it like the foolish ones suggested a valve that isn't closing that is designed to prevent this. All that info coupled with my own experience since then suggests to me it's simply a shitty design in this vehicle and any vehicle that exhibits the same behavior. That and the simple fact that all my previous vehicles of the same make as well as all the other people who also never had this issue before on similar makes to my cars is all the evidence I need.

Some cars do it, some don't. Those that don't simply have a better design. It shouldn't be an argument. We aren't retards who forgot to move the temp dial or didn't know that red is hot and blue is cold. It's the design, period.

My 19 year old Honda does this too.

Thank you for saying this. I am so damn tired of hearing people say "that is how every car on the planet is made, and if you don't understand it, you're an idiot. BLUE MEANS COLD HAR HAR!!!"

No. That is not how EVERY CAR EVER is made, and I am not an idiot. My Ford Focus did not do this and that was a very cheaply made vehicle. This is one of the things that really bugs me about this car, because in the winter I like to get the cool fresh air from the outside without having to run the AC.

OP, ignore these people telling you that you are an idiot, and this is how all cars work. It might be normal for some cars, but not all cars. I hear you. It sucks - but unfortunately that's how the 86s are :(

I should add this: the trick isn't 100% effective during those few weeks/months we have in Texas where we used to drive with no compressor on because it was just barely cool enough to not need it. The solution unfortunately was to begin using the compressor sooner in the season than I'm used to(last 22 years).

Where this trick comes in useful now that I've had the car almost 1 year, is when it is actually cold outside(60F and under is cold by Texas standards). Without this trick we would be using the compressor when it's 60F outside, which is absurd.

Shitty design overrides vent method during warm/hot climate.
Vent method overrides shitty design during cool/cold climate.

We win one, we lose one.

Ambient showed 27C outside , but the air coming in was far hotter than 27C , and the shift knob was in cold blue

Wow thanks GOD I finally come across someone who do understands I'm not crazy or dumb talking about this. To me it's plain not acceptable this is happening, my previous car an ancient toyota celica liftback GT 1979 year whenever I shift the knob to cold pumps cold air not Hot or warm. And I'll tell you even more the AC gets even more freezing than on this car.
By the way can you explain me more in detail the process. What should I do to get cold air blowing shifting the knob cold blue. And why is tihs going on. Didn't get it quite clear. Thanks !

THANK YOU ! TOO I'm not alone. Any fix to solve this? I'm waiting for the other guy to explain me the procedure to get PURE COLD AIR!

DANG, dssence ...... allow me to say again what I said in post #6.

"So, @dssence, you can either open the window, turn on the A/C or ..... punch the recirc button, to shut off the vent (which helps somewhat)".

I had a miata that did this same thing and in 88,000 miles, I couldn't get cool "fresh" air through the vents. I've driven my FR-S for about 8,000 miles and I can't figure out how to get cool "fresh" air through the vent system.

I suggest you quit beating this dead horse/vent thing and get on with enjoying your fine machine......:)


humfrz

He's not going to listen, no matter how many times anyone tells him. All he wants is the PURE COLD AIR! without running the AC

What Humfrz said. Just open the window. I personally don't trust the air coming into the cabin through the outside regardless of filtration. I feel like I'm inhaling the exhaust coming from the car in front of me. In the Phoenix summer .... recirc max A/C. In the winter .... open window. As for fogging .... correct me if I'm wrong, but it probably gets really humid in Argentina? Right? I'm sure that adds to the inside fogging. Again ... open the window and allow the humidity to escape.

Can we all get back to driving the car now?

On occasion that occurs, but it's definitely not something that is consistent enough for me to warrant any attention to. I am sure that has to do with the climate differences between where I am at and where you are though.

Mine does it too. Pretty much what others are describing. My previous cars would blow air that was at most a couple degrees warmer than outside, this thing is at least 5-10 degrees warmer when the engine is up to temp. Not a problem for temps below 70 degrees but rather annoying in that 70-90 degree range when on previous cars I could save some gas by not running the A/C. This is regardless of speed, it's always warmer after the first couple minutes. Like others have said, gotta bite the bullet and turn on the A/C or crack the window, which I kind of like, I didn't enjoy window down driving very much in my last car with hand crank windows.
:bonk:

Do you have to repeat the process after a certain amount of time or does it work for the remainder of your trip? It sounds like you could save yourself some time by just hitting the A/C button for a few minutes, it seems like it would accomplish the exact same thing.

I seem to remember anecdotally that a lot of 'high end' performance cars in the past had shitty HVAC because it wasn't a priority. But I can't back that up. I'm lumping it in with the crickets as a quirk.

:cheers:

Other cars don't necessary have a better design, they have different priorities. This car is designed to be lightweight, so they use less insulation and Little focus on placement and thermal isolation of the HVAC vents
I too noticed that this car blows a lot more heat than ambient outside air when the dials are all on cold and outside air. But only after its been sitting, after being run.
If you first start your car in the morning and turn the controls too cold and just vent, the cold air coming out of the vents will be blowing outside air very similar to ambient outside temperature. for as long as the car is moving. Get in traffic or turn the car off for a little while and it will blow hot air due to heat soak from the cowl and firewall.
So it appears that the system does close off the air properly and it is a heat soak issue because of the cars design and design priorities, not because it's necessarily a bad designed HVAC system.
As mentioned recirculate will stop the unwanted heat from coming in..

Well whatever the reasons for the design, it's what we got.

There is no "fix", only ways to deal with and reduce the occurrence. For the guy wanting pure cold fresh air...it's not gonna happen like the old car. The vent trick only "helps", it doesn't alleviate.

We have different weather systems between us, so my personal experience may differ. The average day here is humidity in the 80-90's without rain. With that said I must begin using the compressor about a month sooner than usual(which is already 8-9months a year!).

As long as the weather isn't horrible, it hasn't been too bad using the vent method, but not perfect like before and never will be. When you reach this weather point, turn on the A/C or open the window. :(

Not the end of the world, but still worth noting since it can be done by other car makers.

So for cold air to blow without AC this is the only solution ?

1) temp all the way hot
2) turn vent to 1 of the 3 defog settings(last 3)
3) temp back to cold, wait a few seconds
4) vent back to...

Thought I was going crazy, didn't know other people were having same issue. My dual climate system seems like it's hot on ever temperature setting beside "LO". It's winter out and I it'd be nice to not be on the lowest setting but not be sweating when I try to turn it on click.