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-   -   Track guys: What would you like to see CSG test? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57520)

CSG Mike 02-05-2014 05:53 PM

Track guys: What would you like to see CSG test?
 
Open ended question.

I'll take the popular submissions up with the boss.

buddy32 02-06-2014 08:28 AM

Seems like not a whole lot of people turbo-ing at the track. I know you guys are testing the JR supercharger, but maybe a turbo as well?

kster1 02-06-2014 08:38 AM

I'd be interested in seeing aerodynamic parts on the front and rear of the car and their impact on lap times. The Voltex rear wing would be a good start to see what it does alone, and then again compared with some aero help in the front.

ja1217 02-06-2014 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kster1 (Post 1508361)
I'd be interested in seeing aerodynamic parts on the front and rear of the car and their impact on lap times. The Voltex rear wing would be a good start to see what it does alone, and then again compared with some aero help in the front.

Don't forget a proper diffuser as well!

7thgear 02-06-2014 09:08 AM

i'd like to see the car on a set of high end coilovers, tuned perfectly for the car, but at OEM ride height. No 3rd party aero.

I'm convinced that modiying the springrate slightly for balance, while maintaining a long damper travel with state of the art dampening will yield a grippy car (if driven right) assuming street tires and no aero.

DarkSunrise 02-06-2014 09:15 AM

Robispec front LCAs

smbstyle 02-06-2014 09:27 AM

second the turbo idea, just to see how it holds up compared to the JR kit, and then some real world aero testing.

I'd like a good track tire comparison with data (got an AIM solo or something?)

GTHachiRoku 02-06-2014 10:04 AM

I'd be interested as well in aero parts, specifically a rear diffuser and front air splitter.

Reaper 02-06-2014 10:20 AM

splitter and aero testing, whatever the most inexpensive BBK is right now and if a vented hood is better than a radiator and oil cooler

7thgear 02-06-2014 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper (Post 1508490)
whatever the most inexpensive BBK is right now

what does that even mean

do you have questions about caliper quality? brake pad quality? heat soak?

people say BBK like it's just that one thing that you do and everything becomes amazing, when there are tradeoffs and in some cases unneeded expenses if you figure out what you actually need to have done.

d.liang 02-06-2014 11:06 AM

second for the vented hood test. really interested in the new hood from rk sport.

ImperiousRex 02-06-2014 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddy32 (Post 1508348)
Seems like not a whole lot of people turbo-ing at the track. I know you guys are testing the JR supercharger, but maybe a turbo as well?

This is precisely why I went with a turbo in my car and in the past 4 months, it's been tested quite a bit on track (over 10 track events in that time). Mike has a good amount of seat time in my car both for development and competition (he finished 3rd in the Street RWD class in the last GTA/Super Lap Battle Finale using my car). If you have specific questions, I'm sure he can answer many of them.

Also now that the CSG car is running the JR SC kit, we should have many good days to compare SC vs. Turbo on the same tracks on the same days.

Anthonytpt 02-06-2014 01:49 PM

@ImperiousRex: I have passenger seat time in your car. :D

King Tut 02-06-2014 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImperiousRex (Post 1509003)
This is precisely why I went with a turbo in my car and in the past 4 months, it's been tested quite a bit on track (over 10 track events in that time). Mike has a good amount of seat time in my car both for development and competition (he finished 3rd in the Street RWD class in the last GTA/Super Lap Battle Finale using my car). If you have specific questions, I'm sure he can answer many of them.

Also now that the CSG car is running the JR SC kit, we should have many good days to compare SC vs. Turbo on the same tracks on the same days.

How much power would you say you lose from the start of the lap to the end of the lap with that turbo?

King Tut 02-06-2014 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 1506965)
Open ended question.

I'll take the popular submissions up with the boss.

I would like to see some laptimes, G force, and top speed numbers for functional downforce adders like a front splitter and a rear diffuser.

CSG Mike 02-06-2014 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kster1 (Post 1508361)
I'd be interested in seeing aerodynamic parts on the front and rear of the car and their impact on lap times. The Voltex rear wing would be a good start to see what it does alone, and then again compared with some aero help in the front.

Voltex wings without front aero will make the car push hardcore. We sell Voltex and it works, but it's out of our budget for the time being.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7thgear (Post 1508397)
i'd like to see the car on a set of high end coilovers, tuned perfectly for the car, but at OEM ride height. No 3rd party aero.

I'm convinced that modiying the springrate slightly for balance, while maintaining a long damper travel with state of the art dampening will yield a grippy car (if driven right) assuming street tires and no aero.

That makes no sense. Keeping the car at stock height means you'll have no droop travel unless you're using REALLY low spring rates. Then you get terrible transition times from the roll travel. A way overdamped car will ride like crap, and still be faster around a track.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise (Post 1508403)
Robispec front LCAs

They reduce weight...

Quote:

Originally Posted by smbstyle (Post 1508411)
second the turbo idea, just to see how it holds up compared to the JR kit, and then some real world aero testing.

I'd like a good track tire comparison with data (got an AIM solo or something?)

Tire comparison... already been done.

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/8391...s-dunlop-z1ss/

7thgear 02-06-2014 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 1509694)
That makes no sense. Keeping the car at stock height means you'll have no droop travel unless you're using REALLY low spring rates. Then you get terrible transition times from the roll travel. A way overdamped car will ride like crap, and still be faster around a track.


so OEM car in it's stock form has no droop travel? How in the world did it get voted best driving car then :/


I don't mean to use short shocks for this, get something like B6's, valved to something from GC lets say, corner balanced and kept at around oem height.

ImperiousRex 02-06-2014 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tut (Post 1509660)
How much power would you say you lose from the start of the lap to the end of the lap with that turbo?

I'm going to be posting something very soon in my build journal that shows exactly what's going on with the heat soak. I meant to post it a few weeks ago but I've been working with Mike and Evasive on getting several solutions to keep the engine bay temps down and they just wrapped up yesterday and we'll be testing them on track this weekend. So keep an eye out for my journal update ;)

CSG Mike 02-06-2014 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImperiousRex (Post 1509772)
I'm going to be posting something very soon in my build journal that shows exactly what's going on with the heat soak. I meant to post it a few weeks ago but I've been working with Mike and Evasive on getting several solutions to keep the engine bay temps down and they just wrapped up yesterday and we'll be testing them on track this weekend. So keep an eye out for my journal update ;)

Shall I schedule some more dyno time? :D

CSG Mike 02-06-2014 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7thgear (Post 1509752)
so OEM car in it's stock form has no droop travel? How in the world did it get voted best driving car then :/


I don't mean to use short shocks for this, get something like B6's, valved to something from GC lets say, corner balanced and kept at around oem height.

I'm just saying with OEM height and near-oem spring rates, there's just no benefit. You'll gain a ton of ride quality, but minimal performance.

ImperiousRex 02-06-2014 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 1509795)
Shall I schedule some more dyno time? :D

Only if I can hit a 1:26 at streets - otherwise it's back to the drawing board! ;)

CSG Mike 02-06-2014 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImperiousRex (Post 1509812)
Only if I can hit a 1:26 at streets - otherwise it's back to the drawing board! ;)

Fresh tire time?

smbstyle 02-06-2014 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 1509694)
Tire comparison... already been done.

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/8391...s-dunlop-z1ss/


I wanna see NT01 vs Hankook TD!

CSG Mike 02-06-2014 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smbstyle (Post 1509851)
I wanna see NT01 vs Hankook TD!

TD's are faster... and drop off faster, and overheat faster.

No way I can justify $1600 in consumables to the boss strictly to see which is faster, when we already know the answer

smbstyle 02-06-2014 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 1509855)
TD's are faster... and drop off faster, and overheat faster.

No way I can justify $1600 in consumables to the boss strictly to see which is faster, when we already know the answer

Don't let him know you already know........ :D

I'm out of ideas. lol

CSG Mike 02-06-2014 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smbstyle (Post 1509876)
Don't let him know you already know........ :D

I'm out of ideas. lol

Boss already knows that too... I dare say he probably knows most of what I know. Difference is I put down faster lap times.

mav1178 02-06-2014 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper (Post 1508490)
splitter and aero testing, whatever the most inexpensive BBK is right now and if a vented hood is better than a radiator and oil cooler

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7thgear (Post 1508495)
what does that even mean

To @Reaper:

The money spent on a BBK is better spent if one were to purchase high quality brake fluid and pads (for track purposes), as well as investment in better tires.

That would make a much larger difference, even if you went with a $1k brake kit.

-alex

Reaper 02-06-2014 06:57 PM

Yes i understand that. I was reffering to ap vs stoptech vs oem sti brembos.

CSG Mike 02-06-2014 06:59 PM

Well, testing reaper's request would be about... $9k in parts... plus consumables... and I'm not even sure what kind of results he's asking for or what metrics should be recorded

7thgear 02-06-2014 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 1509796)
I'm just saying with OEM height and near-oem spring rates, there's just no benefit. You'll gain a ton of ride quality, but minimal performance.



okay, I won't get into it but then how about just the new Bilstein HDs and OEM springs and see how that rides on a track vs lets say Konis and a normal coilover.


ie, how much is the lower cg and stiffer spring giving you vs a dampening benefit.

mav1178 02-06-2014 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper (Post 1509993)
Yes i understand that. I was reffering to ap vs stoptech vs oem sti brembos.

My statement still stands, your request is very vague and almost impossible to measure.

If all those brake kits ran the same compound pads from the same 3rd party manufacturer (say, Endless pads), then your braking performance will be identical.

The rest is a bunch of intangibles that are exceedingly hard to measure given Mike's limited resources.

-alex

CSG Mike 02-06-2014 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7thgear (Post 1510016)
okay, I won't get into it but then how about just the new Bilstein HDs and OEM springs and see how that rides on a track vs lets say Konis and a normal coilover.


ie, how much is the lower cg and stiffer spring giving you vs a dampening benefit.

I'd say not enough to be worth the money, without testing. Isnt the point to either a) substantially improve ride quality or b) substantially improve performance?

Both of your examples do neither since spring rates aren't really increasing, and the dampers are not matched to the OEM springs.

diss7 02-06-2014 08:01 PM

I'd like to second the request for aero parts testing.

How about setting yourself a challenge, to lower the car another inch, and maintain current lap times? May need to add some adjustable swaybars to counter the increased roll.

juliog 02-06-2014 11:08 PM

I'd love it if you guys wrote short reviews of other cars that you get to drive during HPDEs, using the FR-S as the baseline for comparisons —since it's what most of us know. Most interested in handling and track readiness (e.g. how do the turbo engines in the Focus/Fiesta ST hold up? do their electronic torque vectoring eat up break pads? etc..)

Pat 02-06-2014 11:50 PM

A very well done diffuser after removal of the spare wheel well, if beneficial. Creative exhaust routing encouraged.

dem00n 02-07-2014 12:21 AM

An automatic.

mtsui 02-07-2014 02:19 AM

final drive on NA set up

7thgear 02-07-2014 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 1510058)
Isnt the point to either a) substantially improve ride quality or b) substantially improve performance?

not to me
i always look at WRC cars and try to figure out what they do, because they drive on roads, and that's where i spend most of my time.

and from what i understand, their tarmac suspension isn't all that stiff and has gobs of movement

although they also have lots of geometry correction but still.

i'm looking for what is the best compromise at the moment... stock works pretty well, but i'm just curious if getting just dampers is going to be worth the hassle.

ATL BRZ 02-07-2014 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normancw (Post 1511098)
It would be great to test the effectiveness of brake ducts - maybe the APR brake duct kit ($600) with backing plates while you still have the stock calipers on the BRZ.

You could install, do some laps, measure temps, and record impressions. Then block them off and repeat.

Once you upgrade to the AP Endurance BBK, you can do the same test (connecting to the APR hose to the built in duct attachment in the Endurance caliper bracket). This would direct air to the center of the disc, vs the side for the APR backing plates.

Another alternative (with the stock calipers) is the TF brake duct kit with backing plates ($340) that direct air to the center of the discs (hub area). If you already have the APR inlet ducts and hose installed, you could reuse them to test with the TF backing plate.

I like these ideas

CSG Mike 02-07-2014 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normancw (Post 1511098)
It would be great to test the effectiveness of brake ducts - maybe the APR brake duct kit ($600) with backing plates while you still have the stock calipers on the BRZ.

You could install, do some laps, measure temps, and record impressions. Then block them off and repeat.

Once you upgrade to the AP Endurance BBK, you can do the same test (connecting to the APR hose to the built in duct attachment in the Endurance caliper bracket). This would direct air to the center of the disc, vs the side for the APR backing plates.

Another alternative (with the stock calipers) is the TF brake duct kit with backing plates ($340) that direct air to the center of the discs (hub area). If you already have the APR inlet ducts and hose installed, you could reuse them to test with the TF backing plate.

Now this is something we could probably do. I do know this. In 3 laps, we got the stock braking system so hot that a laser temp gauge was unable to read the temperature... after about 5 minutes of pure cooldown, the pads/rotors/hub/caliper were all over 350C, indicating severe overheating. You don't want the calipers to ever see more than 250C.

TBH, I'm not sure how the Torque RT700 we used even survived...


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