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-   -   Elitism..sucks (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56395)

RedLeader 01-22-2014 09:54 PM

Elitism..sucks
 
MCM posted this on their FB page, so I thought I'd share it here since this forum, like every other, has a problem with elitism.
Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyCarMods
There a culture that we often see in the modified car scene that maintains that unless you have <insert turbo car here> with <insert cool list of JDM mods here> that you are somewhat a second rate citizen. It's a culture that we believe is unhealthy and not serving anyone well, except for the egos of the elitist minority who feel that their way of modifying cars is the only way it should be done. And to further compound the elitist regime, to truly qualify yourself as being passionate about cars, you need to spend all your money on <insert cool expensive JDM product here>

The assertion made here is that someones depth of passion is directly related to the depth of their wallet. Not only is it an offensive and grotesque attitude, it couldn't be further from the truth. As we posted recently: Passion is not about brands and parts and money. These things distort passion. It's about a relationship, in this case with the car.

Over the years we've been fortunate enough to have the unique opportunity to meet tens of thousands of people from all over the world who are into cars. All different ages, cultures and styles of modification. From local meets in Australia, through to meeting up with people in developed countries as well as third world countries. During our explorations of car scenes in different cultures, we started seeing a pattern emerging that was global. An over arching expression of pride and passion, irrespective of what kind of car we were looking at. We saw it with beat up cars in Indonesia. We saw it in Fiji. Canada, UK, USA, New Zealand, Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, Singapore and while randomly meeting fans in rural parts of Australia while on road trips. It didn't matter what country we were in or what the age, sex or religion. It didn't matter what brand, year or budget was used because cars are the great equaliser. People just wanted to show us their car without prejudice or judgement because they were proud of it, and they knew that if they were proud of their car, we would be proud of them for building it. They were proud of it because it was theirs. It may not have been the car they lay in bed at night and dreamed about as a kid, but life, money, health and circumstance had led them down a different path. But there was still pride there and there was definitely passion.

We've met many parents who have brought their children to MCM meets. 8 year old kids who work on cars with their dad in the garage on the weekend. We've met quadriplegics who live and breathe for anything automotive. We have people travel from interstate on public transport to attend MCM meets. They literally walk from the closest bus stop because they don't own a car. We've had photos from fans in Afghanistan who have saved up to buy a MCM sticker and then many months later we receive an email with a picture of them with a huge beaming smile proudly sitting next to a rusted out ride with their new sticker attached. We've met people with a variety of disabilities whose carers bring them to meets and tell us that cars are the only thing that they seem to respond to. So are they somehow less passionate then the guys with the fat wallets? In our experience the most passionate people on the planet are often the ones that can't afford their dream cars and dream parts so they need to be resourceful. They are buying what they can afford and looking up to their community for advice and some guidance. At this point we just refer to them as "kids" and laugh at them. Are we going to tell them that unless they have stanced EVO, that they have no place being a car enthusiast? Are we going to laugh at them behind their back because they didn't save up and buy a $4000 JDM exhaust?

So what is a successful car in our opinion? Well it comes from creating something that serves its purpose. JET200 is an extreme Silvia built by our mate Andrew who helped us with our 180SX build. It's an iconic car which is an absolute monster. It's been on hundreds of magazine shoots and destroyed just as many super cars at the track. If we tallied the time, cost and parts of this Silvia, there would literally be enough money to buy a house. We are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars and the same amount of sweat and passion spent by Andrew and his mates. Is it better than our Turbo Daihatsu Cuore? As a Time Attack car sure it is. Is it better at getting the shopping? No because its not registrable. So we need to define what a car is designed for, before we decide how successful it's been at achieving that. "…if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” -Einstein

This culture of brand snobbery within the car scene exists on a scale similar to that of designer clothing. Sure its partly created by marketing and hype by the spinners of the agencies working for some of the big brands, but its mostly cultivated on forums and Facebook. If you post up your car and it has "fake wheels" or parts from China instead of Japan you are relegated to the second rate citizen without real passion, because "if you had real passion you'd work harder to buy better wheels". Really? What if I wanted to work harder to pay my mums medical bills? Or work harder to pay for my education, or my kids food? Or work harder just to survive? You work at the bank and I'm at high school so how am I meant to afford the same cars and parts as you? Why do I need $2000 rims on my $800 car? Am I not as passionate as you now? Just because my air filter is not a real brand?

So lets look at authenticity for a minute. I think it would be a fair position to claim a holistic view of authenticity of everything you buy and consume, if you are growing your own food and making your own clothes from the wool of a sheep you have at your free-range bio-dynamic off the grid farm. Nearly everything we eat is fake. It's made more consumable, and cheaper by modification. Watermelons mixed with cucumbers so they have no seeds. Genetically modified foods. Packaged precooked meals and "fresh juice" in a carton that has a use by date of 2 years! It's all cheap, modified, carbon copies of the original. So we're fine to eat it? But put a "fake" wheel or filter on your car and you've got no passion apparently. This is preposterous. I'm not claiming that packaged food is better or worse then organic food because each is just serving its purpose. Send a fresh apple in the mail to Africa and it would never get there. Send a can of stewed apple and it can be eaten years later. Which is better? Neither. They are each perfectly doing what they were designed to do. Do you know how old the "fresh" apples are from the super market? Old. Really old! Sometimes up to a year old. But you have to wonder, next time someone posts a picture of their dinner on Facebook, should we ridicule them if the beetroot on their burger is from a can? Certainly to be a true and passionate member of society they should be eating the real thing as grown without fertiliser on an organic farm, not some fake and cheaper copy. Right?

So why is it that some people are projecting an elitist attitude because their way of modifying a car should be a blanket philosophy that everyone on the planet should follow? Because they are misguided, generally insecure and have somehow forgotten that cars are for EVERYBODY. I can tell you that it takes more courage to turn up to a car meet in your mums Yaris than it takes to turn up in <insert cool JDM ride here>

The problem with this "we are more passionate than you" attitude is that it expresses an element of exclusivity within the car scene. "You can be a respected part of this community if your car is modified like this". Its horribly derogatory and demonstrated a sad, close minded attitude. We believe the car scene should be the opposite and we should be promoting inclusivity. It's what MCM has been about since the beginning and its why we regularly return to cheap "consumer" cars.

There will always be rivalry of course and this is good. (My album title "The Sea Brings Rivalry" is literally about imported cars) Marty has his preferences and I have mine and we treat our differences like friendly rival sporting teams, rather than this dark, oppressive Orwellian regime of conforming to the internets standards of modifying your car.

So what is our personal attitude towards building cars? You buy and build what you can with the money you have. You do your best to make it serve its purpose. You buy a Haynes manual and learn everything you can. You become a member of forums and meets that promote a positive and diverse range of views. Make mistakes. They are yours for the taking. They are valuable. There's lot of them waiting for you. And they are necessary. Be prepared for people telling you that your car is crap and that you did it wrong. And then decide whether you should listen to them or not. Sometimes their advice will be sound. Other times you'll realise they are just incredibly insecure and conservative about the decisions that they themselves have made and if they can convince you that their way is the "right" way, they'll feel better about themselves.

Ultimately, you need to follow your own compass and respect that other people are at a different stage, and on a different path.

Learn. Do. Read. Break. Fix. Explore. Save. Repeat until upgrade.

Unlike lavish boats and mansions by the sea, cars and their modification are not for the wealthy minority, they're for everyone, and thats why we love them.


And for those of you that say "TL;DR", I'm not going to paraphrase. If you're too lazy to read, please be too lazy to post here.

1086 01-22-2014 10:01 PM

Very good read - glad they captured the essence of what car passion and enthusiast stands for.

<3

ZionsWrath 01-22-2014 10:42 PM

The number of "ZOMGPP Rotas?! I'd have bought the real Weds or rays" yet most of those people are stock. I think it is out of hand now and will perpetuate. The good thing about internet forums is you can just skip to the next post and ignore those who you don't like. I haven't been to meets so not sure how it translates in real life.

For me I don't understand stance movement and some of the cars I see make me think they are borderline unsafe. But I say, just about anything that gets people buying parts and growing the aftermarket is a good thing.

Rayme 01-22-2014 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLeader (Post 1472393)
MCM posted this on their FB page, so I thought I'd share it here since this forum, like every other, has a problem with elitism.


And for those of you that say "TL;DR", I'm not going to paraphrase. If you're too lazy to read, please be too lazy to post here.

I've been in agreement of this "mantra" for a while, it's fun to get together and talk about cars, alienating a certain group because they don't own imports or stanced cars sucks for everyone. There is alot of people who enjoy their cars mostly stock and have more interesting things to say than other people who bought a cars and slapped on whatever trendy wheel exists and go on about bashing civic, prius, scion, muscle owners.

Unless you come on as an asshole to a meet bragging/lying about your car, you're golden.

Taro 01-22-2014 11:07 PM

Do we really have wheel elitists on here? I bought super cheap aftermarkets for my winter tires because I hate steelies...and I keep getting complimented on them. I don't even like them that much, but other 86 owners love them.

pche 01-22-2014 11:22 PM

Nothing I enjoy more than beating those so called elitist at AutoX with their fancy BBS wheels, Brembo brakes, Recaro seats, top dollar coils, etc, etc. while I'm rocking RPF1s and stock brakes, lowering springs, factory seats lol

Not saying I'm a pro or anything. Just that practice shave more time off the clock than 1000 dollar wheels.

Dimman 01-22-2014 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taro (Post 1472553)
Do we really have wheel elitists on here? I bought super cheap aftermarkets for my winter tires because I hate steelies...and I keep getting complimented on them. I don't even like them that much, but other 86 owners love them.

I am.

I hate all knock offs.

In the wheels example something like a TE37 isn't popular because the style is fantastic, it's popular because it is a functional piece of engineering and as a result is expensive. That is why it became popular, because it is an exceptional wheel.

But it is knocked off so people can imitate the look, but not the function. There is no in depth appreciation or understanding of what makes the TE37 so exceptional. And because of that people who buy knock offs will almost always be looked down upon by elitists as ignorant poseurs who have no respect for the leading innovators that created the style they copy.

People may not like hearing this put that's the way it is. Knock offs aren't price limited passion, they are disrespectful to the industry leaders and innovators.


Flame suit on...

Frost 01-22-2014 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimman (Post 1472598)
I am.

I hate all knock offs.

In the wheels example something like a TE37 isn't popular because the style is fantastic, it's popular because it is a functional piece of engineering and as a result is expensive. That is why it became popular, because it is an exceptional wheel.

But it is knocked off so people can imitate the look, but not the function. There is no in depth appreciation or understanding of what makes the TE37 so exceptional. And because of that people who buy knock offs will almost always be looked down upon by elitists as ignorant poseurs who have no respect for the leading innovators that created the style they copy.

People may not like hearing this put that's the way it is. Knock offs aren't price limited passion, they are disrespectful to the industry leaders and innovators.

Flame suit on...

I know where you come from but the real people who purchase for function over form will continue to buy it. Would you really rather have them buy the real deal and drive up prices even more or drive down availability?

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything. If I decide to get RPF1 knockoffs, I know they are knockoffs and are most likely not doing anything other than blinging. On the other hand, if I do actually race / track, I know I need a wheel that won't warp or crack under stress and since money doesn't come easy, I will realize the knock off wheels won't live up to the standard and get a good wheel.

Gen 01-23-2014 01:25 AM

I find the worst to be track snobs, to be honest. If you don't track your car, well you should have just bought a minivan then.

fatoni 01-23-2014 02:33 AM

haha brings up how much elitism sucks but then goes out of your to tell people how lazy they are.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimman (Post 1472598)
I am.

I hate all knock offs.

In the wheels example something like a TE37 isn't popular because the style is fantastic, it's popular because it is a functional piece of engineering and as a result is expensive. That is why it became popular, because it is an exceptional wheel.

But it is knocked off so people can imitate the look, but not the function. There is no in depth appreciation or understanding of what makes the TE37 so exceptional. And because of that people who buy knock offs will almost always be looked down upon by elitists as ignorant poseurs who have no respect for the leading innovators that created the style they copy.

People may not like hearing this put that's the way it is. Knock offs aren't price limited passion, they are disrespectful to the industry leaders and innovators.


Flame suit on...

while im not particularly fond of blatant copies, im more confused when people buy things like the te37. there is a whole world of cheap rims that arent knockoffs like many enkei, team dynamic, or kosei offerings that are track proven while keeping my wallet fat.

ZionsWrath 01-23-2014 02:49 AM

What if the porsche guys come on here for buying a cheap knockoff cayman?

suaveflooder 01-23-2014 03:21 AM

AMEN!!!!! :party0030::party0030::party0030:

SCharged 01-23-2014 12:00 PM

BRZ>FR-S... more exclusive...
Twins>MS3, CSI, GTI, Genesis... because the twins are for connaisseurs, others don't know sh*t about car sh*t
2012-2013: EcuTek>Unichip
2014: OFT>EcuTek
2015: OEM Turbo>NA (just kiding... turbo won't happen)

7thgear 01-23-2014 12:07 PM

i'm da best

/thread

PoorMansRacing 01-23-2014 01:04 PM

@Gen, this!! I get a lot of crap from people for running a spring setup instead of coilovers for track, or running a high performance street tire instead of a stickier R-compound tire for autox.

Anytime I meet someone new, who does not track their twin, I get the "oh, it's not boosted" comment with rolled eyes or a grunt, when FI isn't my goal.

Show guys hate that I don't run expensive, over-the-top heavy stanced wheels.

Can't win with any group :p

ZetaVI 01-23-2014 02:07 PM

I love MCM.

SVTSHC 01-23-2014 03:08 PM

That was an incredibly good read. I agree wholeheartedly and thoroughly detest the level of elitism that has emerged in the enthusiast world.

Hats off to you MCM.

zenki_levin 01-23-2014 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayme (Post 1472549)
it's fun to get together and talk about cars, alienating a certain group because they don't own imports or stanced cars sucks for everyone. There is alot of people who enjoy their cars mostly stock and have more interesting things to say than other people who bought a cars and slapped on whatever trendy wheel exists and go on about bashing civic, prius, scion, muscle owners.

Yea but it's also the other way around in some cases. People with mostly stock cars who look down on people with 'stanced' cars.

DarkSunrise 01-23-2014 03:56 PM

Well at the end of the day, people are going to have their preferences, and that applies to all choices:

- stock vs. stance
- track vs. show
- power vs. handling
- FR-S vs. Focus ST
- BRZ vs. Camry/minivan
- FR-S vs. BRZ
- etc.

Personally I think it's great that people have their opinions, and it's even fine if they want to explain why they think a particular option is better than the other. Debate is good -- it's interesting, it can sway people's opinions, and it can broaden everyone's perspectives on a subject.

The important thing is to present your opinions with an open mind, respecting other people's choices and preferences.

FiRStsc10n 01-23-2014 04:04 PM

I agree that me being pretty much stock (except for a few cosmetic enhancements) makes me feel judged at the car meets I have been too (with other very heavily modified vehicles). Especially when I get comments like "oh your car is automatic, why would you do that".

King Tut 01-23-2014 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 1472968)
while im not particularly fond of blatant copies, im more confused when people buy things like the te37. there is a whole world of cheap rims that arent knockoffs like many enkei, team dynamic, or kosei offerings that are track proven while keeping my wallet fat.

I buy the TE37s, because they are worth every penny in my mind. Does my race car run $150/wheel cast wheels, yes. Does that not mean I can not run forged TE37s on my street car? I don't buy them to get street cred, heck most BMW owners hate JDM wheels on an M3. Buy the wheels that you can afford and want, but don't buy blatant copies when there are great original wheels in that same price bracket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath (Post 1472983)
What if the porsche guys come on here for buying a cheap knockoff cayman?

I bought the BRZ as a cheaper version of my Cayman R. :(

n2oinferno 01-24-2014 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiRStsc10n (Post 1474277)
Especially when I get comments like "oh your car is automatic, why would you do that".

Next time just say "Yeah I know, pulling that manual transmission out was kind of a bitch"

Watch their jaw drop.

Laugh.

:D

PoorMansRacing 01-24-2014 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiRStsc10n (Post 1474277)
I agree that me being pretty much stock (except for a few cosmetic enhancements) makes me feel judged at the car meets I have been too (with other very heavily modified vehicles).

That's why I hate the majority of car meets. Isn't the point to meet like-minded people, who love their cars and share the same passions? :iono: I also love how people feel a need to force their brand loyalties down everyone's throat just to prove why one car is better than another.

ftc~brz 01-24-2014 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRZTimeTrials (Post 1477340)
That's why I hate the majority of car meets. Isn't the point to meet like-minded people, who love their cars and share the same passions? :iono: I also love how people feel a need to force their brand loyalties down everyone's throat just to prove why one car is better than another.

this is why I don't go to many and the ones I do focus on enthusiasts.

Nothing like rolling into (insert fast food place) parking lot and having a high schooler tell you whats wrong with your choice of (mods/car) when all you wanted was a sweat tea. ;)

Ammonia 01-24-2014 06:01 PM

FIGURES THAT AN FRS OWNER POSTED THIS

HUE HUE HUE

1086 01-24-2014 06:18 PM

Haha wtfffffffffffffff

PoorMansRacing 01-24-2014 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftc~brz (Post 1477363)
Nothing like rolling into (insert fast food place) parking lot and having a high schooler tell you whats wrong with your choice of (mods/car) when all you wanted was a sweat tea. ;)

LOL for some reason, every time I'm washing my car at Flagship in Gaithersburg, which is rare, it's always right before those dumb Moco Meets. I either get the "my boy's [insert twin] does 500WHP, yours sucks" or "why'd you bring a stock car here?" (not stock, just no cosmetic crap) I just wanna wash mah car!

That sweet tea definitely holds more weight than those meets. :thumbup:

chrisl 01-24-2014 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftc~brz (Post 1477363)
...when all you wanted was a sweat tea. ;)

Sweat tea?

:barf:

ftc~brz 01-24-2014 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRZTimeTrials (Post 1477423)
LOL for some reason, every time I'm washing my car at Flagship in Gaithersburg, which is rare, it's always right before those dumb Moco Meets. I either get the "my boy's [insert twin] does 500WHP, yours sucks" or "why'd you bring a stock car here?" (not stock, just no cosmetic crap) I just wanna wash mah car!

That sweet tea definitely holds more weight than those meets. :thumbup:

we are gonna have good times when we finally meet...yay!

PoorMansRacing 01-25-2014 10:44 AM

I can't wait to meet you, @ftc~brz! Will you be at the next Fairfax meet?

SubaSteve 01-25-2014 11:16 AM

This is exactly why I choose not to go to mixed car meets. I know that when going to car meets solely with just frs/brzs I won't have to deal with non-like minded people.

fatoni 01-25-2014 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRZTimeTrials (Post 1477340)
That's why I hate the majority of car meets. Isn't the point to meet like-minded people, who love their cars and share the same passions? :iono: I also love how people feel a need to force their brand loyalties down everyone's throat just to prove why one car is better than another.

And now car meets sound like klan rallies

Frost 01-25-2014 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 1478762)
And now car meets sound like klan rallies

As per the Regular Car Review of the FRS/BRZ: "One of us. ONE of US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!!!"

SirBrass 01-25-2014 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRZTimeTrials (Post 1473676)
@Gen, this!! I get a lot of crap from people for running a spring setup instead of coilovers for track, or running a high performance street tire instead of a stickier R-compound tire for autox.

Anytime I meet someone new, who does not track their twin, I get the "oh, it's not boosted" comment with rolled eyes or a grunt, when FI isn't my goal.

Show guys hate that I don't run expensive, over-the-top heavy stanced wheels.

Can't win with any group :p

And the point at which you should care is the point when they start making your car payments.

Your car, not theirs. F*'em

When I ditched the STI for the BRZ, some of the snobbier STI guys looked at me like I'd stood up in church & invited everyone to a Black Mass & lemonade. They asked what the hell I was thinking & that I should 2JZ & turbo it. They were baffled when I told them "naaaw, I like the FA20".

Part of what got me into a brz (only part) was the community. Too many elitists in the STI community (granted, the ones who were decent anyways congratulated me on getting the right car for me & weren't at all elitist) being jerks, while the 86 community was really chill & welcoming to anyone.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

ftc~brz 01-25-2014 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRZTimeTrials (Post 1478695)
I can't wait to meet you, @ftc~brz! Will you be at the next Fairfax meet?

prob not. It's too far and I work weekends. :( Last time I was a pure I missed you by a day. I will be there monday getting my beater maintained.
I take off work for the Pure meets.

Frost 01-25-2014 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirBrass (Post 1478816)
Your car, not theirs. F*'em

When I ditched the STI for the BRZ, some of the snobbier STI guys looked at me like I'd stood up in church & invited everyone to a Black Mass & lemonade. They asked what the hell I was thinking & that I should 2JZ & turbo it. They were baffled when I told them "naaaw, I like the FA20".

Part of what got me into a brz (only part) was the community. Too many elitists in the STI community (granted, the ones who were decent anyways congratulated me on getting the right car for me & weren't at all elitist) being jerks, while the 86 community was really chill & welcoming to anyone.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Good on you. I've seen some STi and WRX guys look at the BRZ and treat it like a bastard child but other guys get it.

I am open to loving all cars the same: for their strengths and design... with the except of the Ford Pinto and very crappily built cars.

seaweasl 01-25-2014 06:40 PM

Great post; it definitely makes me feel less crappy about the bone-stock situation with my FRS. Mine was an unanticipated purchase, and with payments and a bump in insurance, my list of hopes and dreams for my car is long, but my means are small.
Doesn't mean I don't love a good mountain road though. 😝


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SirBrass 01-25-2014 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frost (Post 1478913)
Good on you. I've seen some STi and WRX guys look at the BRZ and treat it like a bastard child but other guys get it.

I am open to loving all cars the same: for their strengths and design... with the except of the Ford Pinto and very crappily built cars.

Yeah, the STI and WRX guys I already had decent respect for were pretty much all on the side of "Why'd you do it? Oh, okay. That makes sense. I'm glad you've got the car that you really love now. She looks great."

And the 86 community here is great. They don't care all that much about the car you drive, but do you love it, and do you love driving it (and are you smart enough to not be an idiot with it). I was hanging out with them mostly even during most of the time I had my STI. They were just more fun.

Wonderbar 01-28-2014 11:23 AM

I'll take my TenzoR wheels because when I wreck them on a curb or pothole, I'm not out 5 g's. I will always recognize custom, and home built before I get excited about a bunch of bolt ons.

I'm late to the game on here but I read and responded to the FB post, upon reading this I immediately and only thought about the "show" scene in the Pacnw, if you don't have the "cool" car with the popular brand names and air suspension, you won't get recognized for anything. Up there it's about big budget builds and nothing more.

DylanFRS 01-28-2014 11:42 AM

I have to say that there is some pretty awful RWD elitism on this forum. Any car that is FWD gets the automatic FWD=lame response. Oh... and Civic=gay/rice response.

Basically I feel like half of the people that read this post probably said "yeah, totally, we're all car enthusiasts!" and then in the back of their heads they said "except those civic owners..."


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