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Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1
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I noticed that there are a few of us learning/relearning to drive manual, I was hoping we could share some advice and ask for help in this thread. The amount of information online is overwhelming for beginners with "advanced" topics ranging from heel and toe, double clutching, and rev matching. I would like to focus on the basics of driving the car safely and with minimal wear and tear. I found this video how a clutch works to be pretty helpful for trying to understand what is actually happening when you press the clutch.
These two introductory videos on driving manual that I thought were also pretty good.
Useful Threads I was hoping the more experienced members could help put together a list of bad habits, that we should avoid. Bad Habits to Avoid:
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And one "myth" is that you cannot skip gears going up or down. That is not true. You may select any gear at any time if you know what you are doing. It will not hurt anything, but you need to learn proper rev matching techniques or you will prematurely wear out your synchros. |
You've covered the bad habits.
The questions are answered as follows: 1. Neutral, foot on the service brake. In the UK you must also set your handbrake or you fail the driving test. This is not done in North America. 2. No, but I find myself doing it all the time. This forbidden technique dates back to days when you could miss a shift. Modern gearboxes are pretty much foolproof. 3. Always select the gear appropriate for the task you anticipate. If you are returning to cruise and the engine will pull fifth then re-select fifth. Coasting is not advised if only because the engine uses no fuel on overrun but does when idling. Coasting in gear is a better idea. I coast up to a stop though precisely for the reason underlying your question: if in neutral you're ready to select the gear you need if the light turns green or traffic starts to move. Coasting in neutral is now officially ok, it was frowned upon when gearboxes were trickier to use. Porsche now includes a freewheel in its PDK automatic, just like the old two stroke SAAB manual gearboxes. |
Bad Habits to Avoid:
-Riding the clutch- Putting enough pressure on the clutch pedal to partially engage the friction plate on the clutch, therefore he clutchplate will not grip the flywheel properly and will partially slip. Keep your foot on the dead pedal when you aren't using the clutch. This will prevent this bad habit -Resting your hand on the shifter? Yep, keep hand off the shifter. It supposedly causes excess stress on the trans. This was more prevalent in older cars with older transmissions, but it has become a habit for me to not do so. Resting your hand on the e-brake feels very natural on this car. You can do that if you wish. ??? Questions: -What should I be doing while waiting at a traffic light(assume no incline)? Neutral? 1st with the clutch completely pressed?Full stop should always be back to netural. -If am making a left turn at intersection from a complete stop should I be shifting from 1st into 2nd while turning? Whatever you are comfortable with. I normally shift mid turn. -If I come out of 5th gear and I am coasting, then when I am ready to accelerate again, what gear should I put the car into? General rule of thumb is that you should never coast. This is due to the fact that if something out of the ordinary happens, you will not be able to maneuver out of the way due to the fact that you have no power. Good luck in your learning! :thumbsup: |
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When its a stop sign or a changed light. You should have the clutch pressed & the car in 1st (or 2nd if snow), other foot on the break obviously. Helpful tip: If you're on an incline you can use the e-break if the idiot behind you is up you're ass. Eventually you'll get to a point where you know the release point & can quickly catch the car from moving back too much. Quote:
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Coasting tends to be a bad idea, I find myself only doing this when I'm coming to a red light, I might just put in neutral and coast to stop (note if you do this during test you will fail, you have to downshift+rev match to pass).
But if the light turns green and you are coasting, say you are going around 40Km/h you will need to blip/rev match into 4th gear. If you need to slow down to the traffic in front of you that's still moving, rev match and downshift. I would also avoid any downshifting to 1st gear, just put it in 1st when taking off from complete stop or <5-7km/h, you'll need to get a feel for this, it might be really weird at first. |
Useful article
These might also help if you're just starting to learn.
Liked this article, a must read if you're just starting to learn. http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/how...ion-1466331076 Once we you get the basics down then you need to start practicing on dealing with hills / inclines. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh5BW-XwtM"]How to Drive a Stick Shift: Dealing with Hills - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ0-dGwpPMs"]Tutorial: How to drive a stick uphill on a 2006 Subaru WRX STi - YouTube[/ame] Basic rev matching. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5TEUv__2m4"]How To Downshift and Rev Match in a Manual Car Driving in a 2011 Subaru WRX - YouTube[/ame] This one is more advanced. But once you're proficient enough on the over all basics then you can try this. Heel / Toe lesson: fast forward @ 13:37 on the video [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqYeusE8ksk"]Porsche 911 GT3 with Hurley Haywood - Heel/Toe Shift Lesson - YouTube[/ame] |
Ok next question: When should I be coasting in gear(not touching any pedals) vs downshifting + rev matching?
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Edit: For me, I usually down shift because I anticipate the light changing soon if traffic isn't bad. With the exception of first, I never down shift to that. The only time I ever really put it in neutral and cruise is when I say go into my driveway. It's a habit I'm trying to get out of cruising in neutral. I did it more when I was learning. |
I've instructed a couple of people on driving stick and the one common question they ask me is: "How do you know where your stick is (which row of gears)?"
1st/2nd means your stick is to the left 3rd/4th means your stick is in the middle or neutral position 5th/6th (or reverse in all of my previous cars) means your stick is to the right Usually when I shift from say 2nd to 3rd, I simply push up on the stick to the neutral position and it will automatically slip into the middle row and then I simply push up into the third. Of course, IRL, this is MUCH faster than it sounds but it is something to look for. |
I've never had any issues from resting my hand lightly on the shifter. Generally in this car, though, with my shift knob, I just don't rest it on the shifter unless I'm going to be making multiple shifts in a short period of time (maneuvering in traffic or rapidly accelerating). In my STI, it was much more comfortable to rest my hand on the shifter. In the BRZ, it's more comfortable to have it resting on the wheel.
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And when you're shifting don't grip the gearstick like you're going to rip it off. That deathgrip on the stick will give you more chance to misshift/grind gears.
It all comes down to practise. You can read countless of books and articles and such but actually driving the car will learn you more. |
Another bad habit you should add is using the clutch to hold a car at an incline for long periods of time. Can't tell you how many manual drivers ive seen that rock their cars back and forth on inclines.
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Although a very small percentage of MT drivers use it to smooth shifts and reduce mechanical wear, the main purpose of blipping the throttle during a downshift is to not upset the balance of the vehicle when braking into a high-speed turn, and that's really only critical in a racing situation. I've been driving MT for ~15 years and racing open-wheel cars for 4 years; I rarely blip the throttle on the street, but I do it every lap on the track. It's awkward and unnecessary on the street. In my experience and opinion. And you're spot on with the bad habits. Hands on the wheel unless you're shifting -- you might need them in a hurry. And use the dead pedal when your left foot isn't working the clutch. (Of course, I'm totally guilty of doing both from time to time.) |
This will come to you as you drive the car. Every car Rev matching is different. People say "has it own personality"
There are only few basics that you need to learn. Clutch down...gear shift....clutch out...drive. When you are stopped at a Hill and the car may roll down, you can do Hand brake + Brake....then release brake pedal...clutch in...rev up....release brake + gas down together. Of course, when you get a grip of your own car, you dont need that hand brake unless very very steep hill |
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I read some where people say driving in neutral when preparing to stop in UK is against the law....you will always need to be in gears, correct gears. Well...I don't know. That will ruin the clutch and trans even worse, unless those Jerks were spouting Trolls.... |
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3) avoid shifting to 1st gear unless you're pretty much stationary. 2nd will suffice. 4) showing into gears is not good for your synchros. You shift very quickly even with finger pressure |
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Advice to new MT drivers: Use the dead pedal Be in the right gear for your speed Practice Don't be intimidated by passengers |
Thank you pete156 for the clarification.
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I was taught to never to down shift until first unless I was stationary and to make turns in second gear.
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What about shifting into first gear, while coming to a stop (say at a stop sign), but not disengaging the clutch until < 5MPH? Is that still putting wear on the synchros?
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Do not coast to a stop in neutral.
It forces your fuel injectors to send fuel to the engine to keep it from stalling, whereas leaving it in gear allows the wheels to keep the engine running (and thus saves you fuel). Moreover, if some sudden need to accelerate arises, being in gear would likely be safer. |
I agree this thread is almost entirely very useful information for anyone, not just novices.
Although coasting is illegal that law is seriously out of date. It used to be thought the car needed to be in gear at all times in case the brakes didn't work. That risk hasn't been real for decades now. Dual circuit brakes, ABS pressure reservoirs and extremely reliable brake hydraulics make a prohibition against coasting stupid. Coasting doesn't save fuel though as another poster pointed out because all emission controlled engines shut off the fuel when on overrun, in gear. However, it is unclear whether engine braking while in gear slows the car by enough to negate the fuel savings from injector shut off. Nobody has actually studied the net effect on fuel consumption. As freewheel gets introduced into more transmissions to save fuel the same computer controlling this will also be able to shut off the fuel while also coasting, mostly. Modern hybrid drives are in the pipeline that will make this all academic. The current state of the art hybrid drives replace the torque converter with a powerful induction electric motor. Eventually, the engine will be shut down when on overrun, the car will coast and use no fuel doing so. The engine will restart using the hybrid drive as the starter motor. The hybrid drive will also recover energy KERS style if the driver uses the brakes. Finally, downshifting to first while moving is a useful high performance driving skill best learned after you can double clutch your downshift from third to second. Heel and toe is often required because even the best synchronizers have trouble speeding up the gearbox enough to allow a decent 2 to 1 downshift. I do it routinely to take very slow corners as quickly as possible especially sharp hairpins. If you can complete the 2 to 1 downshift then you have finally learned how to drive stick. Congratulations as this is likely the latest new car you'll own that will have a stock to shift with! |
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After over decades of this being the case, the FAA finally removed the prohibition against using electronic devices on take-off and landing, and stopped saying "Because it could interfere with the navigation devices of the aircraft." Engineers have been using the same if not more powerful electronic devices around unprotected aircraft electronics in lab and never saw interference for YEARS. Yet the FAA only recently recinded that reg. Imagine how long it'll take before the laws against coasting in a vehicle are rescinded. Even longer I bet. Quote:
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For my edification: when you guys say coasting are you referring to the following:
- pop gear in neutral - foot off clutch pedal When I slow down for a light/stop sign, I always clutch in and brake whilst gearing down depending on speed. This way if I suddenly have to get going again before coming to a complete stop, I am already in gear and can blip and go quite smoothly and as if nothing happened. If I come to a complete stop and if it's a fresh red, I pop in neutral and clutch out, put foot on dead pedal and wait. I purposely listed all obvious steps for those reading who are new to this. Been doing this for well over 11 years but never thought of what you guys are mentioning. |
Coasting to a stop in neutral is well: Neutral
If you are in Neutral, the transmission is neutralized of any torque from the engine, and vice versa. The engine will run Idling, and in modern engine, it does not waste fuel as you think. If you put the car in gear to slow the car down...this is big different. You see how the clutch work ? It is basically a disc brake (flywheel)with full surface Pad (clutch). Friction allows it to transfer Torque to your transmission and ....etc....moving your car. This same friction can also slow you down using the engine (engine brake.) This is possible because the gear you are in is too small, vs the engine rotational speed is too high, the clutch will have to slip greatly on the Flywheel to accommodate the gear rotational speed...basically it uses friction.....but slow your car down instead....this means you are braking VIA the Clutch + Flywheel rather than Discs brakes and pads By doing engine Brake, you put too much Torque Tensions onto the transmission through the gears...which it was never an intentional engineering. Transmission and gears were engineered to distribute the Torque from small to bigger via momentum....put it simple.....your Transmission was never designed to be driven from 6---to 1....you will burn your Clutch, and Crack the gears....slip the Synchros....whatever Conclusion.....Engine Brake kills your Drive train much faster than expected....that is Transmission (whole) + Clutch + Flywheel....some after market Aluminum flywheel will be easily warped. I do not know why coasting in gear...or engine brake is useful as people said. You may be coasting in the right gear...which will only slow you down a little bit...less stress on the Drive Train...but that is the same as Starting in 2nd gear....or 3rd gear (5-6 speeds) |
Engine braking always makes me cringe - even when trucks do it (I know I know they are designed or maintained for it but still).
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The number one reason to rev match on the street is because it is fun and sounds cool. Sure it is about 99% unnecessary but it helps combat the mundane commute :burnrubber:
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Scenario Time!
I am cursing along at 3000 RMP in 4th gear going 44 MPH, If I have 150 feet to come to a complete stop what should I do? |
brake, clutch in right before completing the stop?
amirite? wut do i win? |
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So don't bother down shifting when coming to a complete stop? |
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If you want to downshift to engine brake you must rev-match by blipping the throttle. This prevents the clutch wear because the two sides of the clutch will be spinning at very nearly the same speed. By your logic I will destroy my transmission if I'm in gear while not accelerating. That is completely absurd. I can rev to red line in a gear and coast down in that same gear and I will do no abnormal wear to the transmission. Quote:
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That is true. However if you are in gear have pedal input at high rev...you will be fine. Reason is because the car the trans, and everything else is in Harmony...the way it was designed....again, if you let off your pedal at high rev suddenly...engine brake happens...you are burning clutch. Put it simply...can you brake your car without burning your discs and pads ? If you can..you will be the second einstein..... Yeah...i didnt think so...therefore whenever you engine brake...you are burning the clutch and fly wheel as you do so.....and more on the gears...they were designed to be moving...not braking. |
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You are describing something I guess I'll call "clutch braking". That's driving like a moron. Engine braking does not involve any clutch wear whatsoever. Also I'm not Eintsein, nor did I claim to be. |
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However, your clutch may not burn....but i still would like to think that the transmission was designed to move...not to stop movements |
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Applying torque against the rotation of the gears isn't really that bad for them. I read a description of the effect that went something along the lines of this: When you use the gears to accelerate you wear down one "side" of the teeth. When you use the gears to decelerate you wear down the other "side". If you never engine brake you will end up throwing your transmission away without having applied that wear. I don't know how true that is, but I've never heard of a well-designed transmission having problems because of too many well-executed downshifts. |
Please try to match revs, and be in the correct gear for the speed.
I learned a long time ago (in the 60's) how to drive a manual. What I learned: Be patient, don't be intimidated or bullied by passengers or people behind you, and practice technique when you have free time. Be patient! It's what I said from the start! You can do it! |
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Yeah, me neither, but you cant never be too careful right ?:D |
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