Warning: Shoulder strap guide design weakness can tear seat
 

The Subaru District Sales rep warned me that the shoulder strap on one of the demo cars tore the seat when someone pulled it off without unbuttoning it first.

He said the guide design will probably be modified (not sure if that means the seat will be reinforced below the button or something else), but that won't happen in time for the first batch of FRSes and BRZs (obviously).

I'm unaware of any cases of it happening to JDM BRZs or 86s already on the road, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

It's simply a minor design weakness that can result in a torn seat if misused; just be mindful when tugging on the shoulder strap while it's in the guide.

(please pardon the cross post; I thought this was worth putting in both the FRS and BRZ forums)

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1335523152

Didn't realize this was in both forums. I guess I should've typed it here instead. Any word of problems with the leather/alcantara seats?

Imo that whole strap should go and be replaced by some sort of hard plastic bracket. It's too cheesy for words.

Easy solution, just unbutton it and leave it that way unless you need it.

Those straps are pure crap.

Enemies, the blue BRZ that's been making the rounds here (the one Deslock is referring to) had BOTH straps ripped off, buttons and all. It was a Limited with Alcantara seats. It's a terrible design and the straps themselves are flimsy pieces. I assume they rip off because people tug at them to move the seats back (instead of by the shoulder of the seat) or they try to unbutton them forcefully.

The best way is to get rid of that strap altogether and mount an arm on the interior B pillar, as mentioned by Breeze.

Des, did the rep mention anything regarding a possible TSB or recall for first-release cars?

Wouldn't these be covered under warranty? I know Ford replaced the driver's seat in my wife's Mustang under warranty because something like this broke on it. I'm thinking if they do redesign it, the warranty work would cover replacing one if it broke, and if its a completely different design they would have to replace both for the match.

I would think they try to sneak out of it on the basis of "wear and tear". Though, seeing as how it has to do with a safety feature, it would fall under a warranty/TSB/recall fix. It might come down to legal verbiage and/or the frequency of owner complaints.

This is interesting...

How hard do you have to pull it to tear it? I would imagine it would be a fair amount of effort... Maybe it was torn in dealer cars because rude people were pulling unnecessarily hard on it? Demo cars seem to see a lot of abuse in a short amount of time...

Like (K) said, the demo BRZ Limited that we saw had both straps ripped off. Not very comforting! I think it does come from people trying to move the seats forward without unstrapping the seatbelt. As I will likely never use my back seat for anything, hopefully they'll last on my car!

Yea, it can always be up to interpretation, but I don't really think they can argue that this is wear and not faulty design if they start ripping off.

I'd have to work this one all the way up the chain if it came to that. Honestly though, since I ride single about 90% of the time and will have someone in the back only about 3% I don't think this will be an issue for me.

The rep (probably the same one) told me that people commonly mistake it for a handle to pull the seat forward and that's why it tears. It will not just tear under normal operation so I don't think it's something anyone over the age of 7 will have a problem with.

When i saw 2 BRZs here in socal both cars never had their seatbelts going through this strap and they were still there, but i do remember the FRS had its passenger side ripped off. I wouldnt doubt it to be a problem for owners, so hopefully Toyobaru gets it fixed or removed under warranty.

I would expect the problem to be much more prominent in a demo car since they see a lot of people getting in and out compared to someones personal vehicle. If it becomes a big enough problem I'm sure there will be pressure put on Subaru/Toyota to get a fix.

I noticed this too when I sat in the BRZ in socal. The seatbelt was uncomfortably high, so I put the belt back into the strap. What a terrible design! I will worry about this when my strap keeps popping off or tears on my brz. But for now I'll just let it be.

I honestly think they should replace those with hard PLASTIC guilds,
and I think why so many was broke initially was because people were
pulling on them;thinking that is how you gain access to the back seats.

People always talking about the first change they plan on making to their car... For me it's unbuttoning that. :P

On a somewhat related note: how do you fold the front seat for rear access? I would guess there is a *quick release* switch somewhere that will fold the front seat quickly, as seen in most of the coupes. Since this strap is definitely not the quick release switch, where is the correct one?

In fact, if you use the rear seat most of the time, this strap will be torn fairly quickly since it is easy to pull this strap to move the seat back.

It's a minor design flaw and I'd expect them to do away with the fabric button strap and use a better belt guide. :popcorn:

I grabbed the Recline lever at the bottom of the seat. This also allowed me to push the forward. However I think you need to adjust the seat first, or else when the seat returns to it's upright "lock" position, you could potentially crush the unfortunate soul in the rear seat.

If I can recall, the layer of material on the shoulder that the button is attached to is very thin. I can see how people can easily tear these buttons off just from yanking on it or unbuttoning it incorrectly (as if there were a "wrong" way to unbutton). It's definitely a cost saving design over the plastic arms we see on typical cars.

this was just like my 08 Evo 10 the passenger Recaro seat would be tearing off from the shoulder strap holes...didnt know if dealer would repair it from the warrenty...so sold the seats to get Bride...would probably do the same with these seats and get Bride

So it seems that the quick-release mechanism is at the *Recline lever*. Need to see how this is done in person to get a better feel.

Of course, in order to let people into the back you must make sure you have the space in the back to begin with. With many tall drivers (>= 6') on this forum, I am a bit skeptical about how much clearance there would be for my driving position.

Can the thing just be unbuttoned entirely? I don't see anyone sitting in the back seats every so I probably will never need it. If it can be removed I'd rather just do that.

Looking at the buttons and how one is folded inward, it looks like only 1 is a button and the bottom is sewn in; I could be wrong though. I think over time, the constant rubbing will wear down the seat material.

I like how they took the design from the FT86 and half-assed it! :thumbdown:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1335523152
http://autoblogcar.com/wp-content/up...at-500x332.jpg

http://revocars.com/1225/toyota-ft-8...ts-car-concept

+1 That's about it guys.

When I went to my dealer to preorder he asked if I saw the BRZ at a recent nearby car show and asked if I got to sit in it. When I went the car was locked up. He mentioned it was because someone managed to tear the seat.

Wouldn't surprise me if this is what happened.

Looked weak to begin with. Now we have confirmation. Wonder where in production the design change will occur. Anyway to get an effective date?

I bet this is not the last thing that we find where an designer/engineer or bean counter decided on and said "ehhh... they won't notice..."

Wonder if there could be a design change to go with the design like the new Chevy Camaros? My roommate has one and it looks similar, but instead of snaps they are magnets.

I have a Evo X and it didn't have shoulder strap holes. Which part are you talking about?

Actually, that's a good idea. I'm assuming the snaps are metallic. If they are you could use a couple of small rare-earth button magnets "stuck" to the snaps. Potentially, problem averted.

Love that idea!

They maybe could have used some hard plastic thingy that is mounted to the headerest guides like in the Cavalier/Sunfires. The way the seat is shaped doesnt seem like this would work.

Or they could have made it retractable like in a BMW 3 series coupe/convertible....

Cuz frankly i dont see where they could have put an actual plastic seatbelt strap guide on the seat itself, since its leather/cloth with no real reinforcement for a plastic piece.

You bet he's right. One of the three pre-prod cars I've seen already lost its strap, but not torn apart as he mentioned.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7225/6...005e1ac3_b.jpg

That belongs to this:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7137/7...c638c5b7_c.jpg

Just unbutton it and leave it unbuttoned.

Or just deal with it ripping off every 6 months and get new seats until they fix the design issue.

Yea, I think I'll try the magnets first and then when they fix it have the seats replaced if still under warranty.

I just need to remind my passengers not to use that strap to move the seat.

Magnets are a great idea! I think this will be my first mod when I get my BRZ.

If the shipped production cars do have this and warranty would allow for replacing with a revised seat later, I would call to tell my dealer that they ripped and need to be replaced. If they honor warranty, then I'll rip them out. :confused0068: Preventative maintenance.