Flex fuel and supercharger?
 

Just out of curiosity, could you run a flex fuel kit with a supercharger kit and still realize the benefits? Here in AZ, we have E85, but only in select areas so it would be nice to fill up with it when you can, but not be penalized when you cannot. I understand you can have 2 separate maps, but could you just let it run at whatever % ethanol you have on a single map? Thanks

They aren't mutually exclusive, you can have both in one map - just need a tuner that understands how to tune for both. I have a flex fuel setup, plan is this year to go supercharged - just evaluating options for who can provide what, tunewise. Hopefully some of the vendors can chime in on what they offer, otherwise you're best bet is to go ask them directly what they have experience with.

Yep, you can. @DeliciousTuning supports that setup.

This is something we're considering exploring in the future.

it sounds like in your case you'd able to use either of the two ways of going about using e85, multiple maps and flexfuel.

currently i use multiple maps because i'm using the ecu input where the eca would go for a wideband sensor. i do this with racerom, with maps 1 and 2 being pump gas, 3 and 4 being e85. it works fine, i just run as much gas out as i can (doesn't need to be super low but it helps), fill up with the new fuel, drive around until the trims go nuts and then switch the maps while driving. it's not bad at all, and i don't change back and forth often anyway.

for flexfuel you have a single map and an ethanol content analyzer wired to the ecu. the tuner then creates custom maps with ethanol content as an input which handle all of the compensations for fuel, timing etc. it's actually really easy to do once you look at it, certainly easier than maintaining multiple maps. to the end user, it's the 'set it and forget it' option once it's tuned properly.

if you can plan ahead to switch fuels then you can use multiple maps. if you want to switch 'on the fly', get flexfuel. that's really what it comes down to.

I am also in AZ and definitely run out of E85 options on trips.

The flexfuel + vortech sc setup I use works great.

I'm planning on doing the flex fuel setup as well. @DeliciousTuning will be doing my tuning as well. I'm running a Turbo setup, so while its not a supercharger it is forced induction. I like the idea as well that I can run any mixture between 91 and E85.

I was running flex fuel + vortech here locally in phoenix.

This is what I'm after. I like the set it and forget it style. One less thing to stress about. Thanks for all the input.

Seems like a few of you are already doing this, so that answers my questions. Any local (AZ) tuners do the flex fuel + FI for these cars?

I have flex fuel on my vortech supercharged brz. I can run any E-# content :)

Guy here locally is running it with his innovative supercharger.

I'm also looking to explore flex fuel on my Vortech. So Delicious Tuning is the way to go in SoCal huh?

I am running a @DeliciousTuning flex fuel Innovate set up.

Goodspeed in Scottsdale.

Thanks :thumbup:

Just a simple question, doesn't it take more E85 to equal straight gasoline?

Generally when the Porsche fellas convert to E85 they make it permanent. That usually requires a Larger Fuel Rail and higher input Injectors. So Gasoline has more of a stored power potential than the E85 brew.

Sorry for going too far off topic. Just trying to learn...

when I lived in the East Bay, San Pablo next to North Richmond - one of the Comptons of the East Bay since hou still have Parts of Oakland. That was fun I think I was the only whitey living withing 10 square miles. But you can't beat $300 rent for 1300 square foot studio on the second floor of some shops on Rumrill Blvd. Lucky my ex's uncle owned the entire building we lived in, in which he ran Car Garage out of the side where I would work a few hours of work each week.

But the ONLY place I saw selling E85 and also Bio-Diesel was on University as you were coming off or going back on the freeway, The 580/Eastshore Highway. As some of you may know that is the the street that goes directly up to the University of California or just CAL. Which many of us know as one of the RADICAL Schools in just about any subject in the US.

Further, a lot of people who live in the flatlands West of the school are pretty radical in conservatism and keeping the Earth alive and green.

Also, the Original version of the Prius, talking about the one Prius that shared the body style of another Toyota that evades my memory. I see sooooo many of the old Toyota Priuses there you would think there was some type of required quota. Toyota Echo is the name. If you see one in Berkeley its not an Echo, its a Prius.

Sorry for my ramblin' and TMI.

Tree.

you do have to inject more fuel for a given mass of air when using e85, about 30% or so more. luckily we can switch back and forth easily since we can run as big of injectors as we like without the dd consequences, thanks to DI. no worry about idle quality or low speed fueling issues that some other platforms deal with when they use huge injectors.

Lower energy density only means you get lower gas mileage. The power capability of running E-85 comes from two things:

1. Ethanol resists knock MUCH better than E-85s 104ish octane rating would suggest, meaning you can run more timing, more boost, etc.

2. You can burn more of it because you need a LOT less air for it to burn completely.

Nitromethane also has a lower energy density than gasoline. A lot lower, but you only need 1.7 lbs of air for a lb of nitro, compared with 14.7 lb of air for a lb of gasoline. So you can burn almost 9 times as much of it and that's where all the power comes from to run a quarter mile in 4 seconds :)

ethanol is oxygenated as well of course, so the more you stuff in there the more you can burn.... you don't have to bring your own oxygen to the party, or at least that's how it was explained to me a while back.

A lot of cars require larger injectors/fuel pumps/fuel rails to make E85 work in them because their stock fuel system aren't able to flow the additional 20-30% required to run E85.

However, the BRZ/FRS/GT86 has 8 injectors total (4 port injectors, and 4 direct injectors). Because of this, the FT86 can easily handle the extra flow required to run E85. At some point (depending on your tuner and their tuning strategy) you will need to upgrade your fuel pump and port injectors, but that's it. @DeliciousTuning has tuned a BRZ with stock fuel injectors on E85 to over 300WHP.

We've done this combo with no issues, and it works quite well. No different than for NA other than a bit less timing when on e85.

Actually getting close to 400whp on stock injectors, though still need to finalize that tune. :)

:bow:

Can't wait to get back to my stock injectors from these DW 700's to feel the differences in both drivability and power.