Roll cage for a DD?
 

Hey guys,

Today while going to work I saw an 86 that has went through a street lamp on a highway and the car is literally shaped like a basketball and got scared like hell. Thinking of the sides of the car, there's nothing that would protect you from a car hitting you on a high speed on either sides of the car, I mean if it's the front then you have the engine to reduce the force of that damage so let's say that you are a bit more safe, and if it's from the rear then you have the rear including the trunk bla bla to reduce the force too, but when I imagined it from the sides, there's nothing to protect you. Thought about investing into getting a roll cage but I do not want to take out any thing from the interior like the rear seats and so on. I'm not that well experienced in roll cages but I'm looking for something that would firstly protect the sides of the cars, and then the rest. I know that roll cages were designed to protect cars when rolling over or something but a collision can be a car rolling over too so I'm not taking any chances as from what I've seen today I'm even scared to drive it tomorrow and the day after and the day after that. I know it's up to fate to decide whether I'm gonna be hit by a car or going to roll over or not at all and so on but, better safe than sorry.

Hope you guys can chime in and help me with choosing a good roll cage, I don't mind having the cross at the back and putting harness belts on.

For safety, don't you have you wear a helmet at all times when a roll cage is installed?

That's a good question but I've seen roll cages that are protected with foam like things for that.

Go hard or go home, I say full football uniform. ;)

Roll cage in a street DD, that's ballin man. :)

Trollin :lol:?

No, just seems to be abit of paranoid cause you see one wrecked car and don't know all the circumstances dont ya think? Seriously, how fast was the car going to be balled up, the angle of impact etc...? Don't own a car and take the bus, buy yourself some retro rollerskates if you are that worried that you need a roll cage. Is this your first vehicle???

Well I've seen other cars in the same situation but you do know the differences in the safety features of a japanese car and a german car. Therefore all I can do is provide myself the safety I'm able to afford at least. Not really but my other cars are German and I know I can rely on their safety at most for such situations car seemed like it was hit by another car which caused the driver to lose control and go straight through it.

i think your thought process is a little bit backwards. in a wreck the forces generated arent going to change. if the car crumples that means there is less of that force impacting the driver. with a roll cage, its simply transferring all that force to things like your skull.

a roll cage is part of a safety system so unless youre implementing the whole system, i would recommend you dont get a roll cage.

^^^^This....

The skull point is something I've missed. Thank you for bringing that up.

I realize some vehicles are "made" safer. However there is no telling what kind of accident you or anyone can be in, far too many variables to be worried over. All you can do is assure yourself that you are the best driver you can be. Perhaps if you wish invest in some defensive driver training, perhaps some auto cross and track time, things like this. Not only would you enjoy it, you would improve your driving and your reaction to situations at least 2 fold. IMO that would be money WAY better spent over a (roll cage).
BTW I average @ least 60-70K miles a year for last 20++ years on some of the worst roads you could imagine for my work and I can tell you a roll cage is not on my list.

You feel I'm trolling ok..?.. but I am being honest actually. Worst thing to do is over react to something you see or feel, no need to knee jerk here hard at all IMO. Others can chime in but training pays off in boat loads, for this car I have had little training, I have however owned many sports cars, drive a ton of bad roads fast in a 4x4 truck, and have taken many many driver training courses over the years and every time I did I learned something new and improved my driving and my reaction time and I fully believe that alone has saved my life and others a few times.

True that. I've been driving for the past 12 years, have been drag and drift racing a lot and I've only been in one accident where a woman came face-to-face to me out of nowhere and I ended up breaking my whole right leg, back and neck. So I guess my paranoia is coming from that. I've heard about the streets in the states and how scary they are compared to ours but the highway I use has a speed limit of 87 miles and people usually cruise at 85 miles so yeah... kinda hard to control a car at that speed when the situations were like some of the ones I mentioned above.

If you're really that scared to drive it you may as well sell the 86 and get the biggest, heaviest, truck/jeep/suv/military surplus vehicle you can find and drive that instead.

T-bone any passenger car at high speed and it probably won't be pretty, are you planning to put a roll cage in every car you own from this point forward? You just have to accept the fact that anytime you're on the road you're at risk, being paranoid about it isn't going to help things and will just ruin the driving experience for you. All you can really do is be as safe and careful as you can and hope for the best.

Hummer H1 comes into mind :lol:.

Thanks for the input, I think I'm convinced that a roll cage won't be needed but just thought it would be a good thing to have on such a small car excluding the fact that I can crush my skull because of not wearing a helmet.

Nah, this is what you need
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic"]The Marauder - South Africa's Ten Ton Military Vehicle - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

Believe it or not a Sheikh in here was asking about this car and was willing to buy it at any cost. :lol:

You don't need a cage for the street. The car is about as safe as it can be on the street.

You'd get a cage for safety, if you're taking a corner on a race track at 160km/h, because the stock car isn't designed to take those types of forces that would result from a roll over at that speed.

There are some performance gains from a cage typically, as it really stiffens the car. However, this isn't an ae86 (which is comparitively a very loose car) the gt86 is a very stiff car from factory, and while it would get stiffer with a cage, you're also adding weight.

I track mine with semi slicks, and I don't feel the need for a cage. And I've had an off at 150km/h. (Semis + standing water = adjust lines/speed LOL)

I would only cage mine if I went to slicks on the track, or the type of championship I was entering it specficially required it.

A cage isn't going to protect you in a head on, if anything it prevents the car from absorbing the impact, that it would have otherwise. When you see a crumpled car after an accident, thats a GOOD thing, it shows it absorbed the energy.

Roll cages are for roll over protection. And, I would say multiple roll over protection. The local demo here was rolled on a test drive, rolled two or three times. A, B, C, pillars proved to be quite strong, and car held its shape exceptionally well.

Sell your car and go buy a Saab or Volvo.

Hell, i think you'll like this.

http://jalopnik.com/is-this-the-futu...way-1472152903

I thought our cars had one of the highest saftey rates with all those air bags to protect us from side impacts.

For a street car, don't get a cage.

I have a thing I usually post in threads like this...

It is usually longer but...

There are two safety systems you are talking about. 1 is for the track and expects the squishy human to be in a rigid seat with a helmet (and a HANS) and a cage. 2 is for the street and expects the squishy human to move around a bit in an accident. It has airbags and crumple zones and auto reel seat belts.

Mixing and matching these is a not a good idea. If you hit your head on a roll cage even with foam on it you will severely injure yourself. If you wear a helmet on the street you will not be able to see everything and you will hit something/somebody. And so forth and so on...

Even the safest roll cage still needs protection for the driver.

Imagine worst-case scenario:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZRDqIrUg18"]V8 Supercars 2013 Courtney Crash - YouTube[/ame]

Now imagine your head versus this crumpled space:
http://imgur.com/dPRwxTD

Keep in mind this is a properly tied-in, welded cage. If you are buying a bolt-in cage, you might as well leave your seatbelts off since it won't do jack squat for side impact protection.

Oh, and if you survive the wreck but are hurt? Good luck finding an EMT that can properly extract you out of a cage like this.

Race cars have certain designs built in to their cage/safety equipment (see: shoulder collars on racing suits), to help save a driver's life in an emergency. You have no such luxury in a street car..

Just... don't.

-alex

Its a vicious cycle, that roll cage.

Roll cage = harder structure = more force transferred to your body = you cracking your melon on said cage because normal 3 points won't hold you in securely.

To secure you from hitting said cage you'll need a harness, one that wraps around the crotch so you don't hang yourself by slipping underneath during a collision (imagine the lap belt portion as the noose.

If you secure yourself to a seat (pref. one that doesn't recline because that's a point of failure and if it fails you fly into roll cage or out of the car), the forces will transfer to your neck. This necessitates a HANS (sp?) device.

Lastly, if you have a closed helmet, the airbag will deploy with enough force, the visor may or may not shatter.

A roll cage is part of a safety system. Not to be used by itself as that would cause more harm to occupants inside the car.

Oh, the door actually has a side impact beam. It'll provide enough protection when combined with the airbags. "Enough" being survivable. Anything beyond the "rated" protection... you'll probably suffer internal injuries and whatnot.

Subscribe :)

Wow guys thanks for the responses, I didn't know it was this complicated and I'm convinced enough that a roll cage is more of an enemy rather than a friend sometimes.

Some good advice here, although I'd be tempted to pop over to a Porsche forum and ask some GT3 drivers with factory fit cages how they feel about road driving.

A GT3 does not have a roll cage configuration... it has a roll bar configuration which doesn't intrude into the drivers/passenger area being located entirely behind the seats. A roll bar is as far as you'd want to go for a street driven car if you also see track duty.

That said, have y'all not seen the impact tests for the GT86; it does pretty well stock with side impacts.... Only real danger as seen on the forums is flying off embankments and crashing into ravines...which you'd need an ejection seat with parachute to survive.

Thought I'd seen some 997 4.0s with full cages and some pre 997 gt3s too ; could be wrong.

Remember the jokes about the 4.0 having detachable sidebars for Ring TF days, lol.

Anyhows Subaru will sell you a road legal fully caged RA, notwithstanding the dangers.

Topical thread as I need to make my own decision on cage this year; car focused on track use but driven to events so am mindful of the safety considerations.


http://www.infinite-garage.com/wp-co...-ra-racing.jpg

Well yeah there is a GT3 R version with cage...but that's a factory race car. GT3 RS and below street cars do not have a cage from factory.

If you are not racing wheel to wheel you really don't need a cage, a proper roll bar would suffice. That poor GT86 with a Cusco "cage" forced upon it....that "cage" needs to be taken out of its misery and crushed, which should be fairly easy to do... :lol:

That crash was bad, but the owner was not harmed as bad as you think. I'll try to pull a picture of the crash i have it somewhere

That cage above is not for a race car. I can't think of a sanctioning body that would like that cage. I wouldn't use that in a crap can/lemons car.

Toyota Racing NZ will sell you a proper cage. The same they have in the tr86 race cars. It was about $4500nzd from memory.

http://ft86speedfactory.com/cusco-4-...l-bar-244.html

I'm going to disagree with everyone here because when I was 17, and being a complete idiot, I ended up taking my miata off a clif (~15-20' drop). Car rolled in mid air and landed upside down.

I can tell you the sound of the soft top crumpling in and glass breaking was terrifying, truely thought that was it.

The aftermarket roll bar (wasn't a cage) saved my life. Changed my perspective on things.

With all the said, if you get a mild more 'roll bar' type cage, please, please please consider your (and especially your passenger's) potential for movement of their heads. The cage could end up being the lethal part of the equation. It would take careful planning, research, measuring clearances, and likely padding certain areas.

Just saying- it could save your life, but probably not so much for side impact, more roll.

That was a roadster. I would get a roll *bar* for a roadster also that didn't have OEM rollover protection.

Doing so for a street BRZ/FRS doesn't make much sense (limits the usability of the car and without harnesses and a fixed back seat is worse than stock). The majority of accidents will be more dangerous in these cars with a bar and stock seat/belts due to the designed function of those stock components (passenger movement down and center is allowed by design, seat backs break, etc). A roll bar with a fixed seat and 6 point harnesses is arguably as safe as stock and in some cases safer but not all that friendly. Race buckets also don't have much head protection (whiplash, etc) compared to the stock seats. I run a roll bar and seats/harnesses in my track car (and more in the race car of course) and stopped tracking the BRZ primarily because a roll bar wasn't able to be justified in my head for such a new car and I stopped being comfortable without the safety gear on track. On the street the BRZ is as at least as safe as any other small sports car like these.

A cage (for this conversation a 6 point or more with at least two of those points in front of the front seats with a halo above the driver) in any street car is simply a bad idea.

Many people have already mentioned that a rollcage on the street is a bad idea but I'll try to give you a more complete picture as to why.

Roll cage with stock seats and belts: you'll move around enough in a crash to crack your skull open like a melon. Not pretty and a pretty stupid idea.

Roll cage with stock seats, stock belts and a helmet: you'll still move around enough in a crash to crack both your helmet and skull open. Also, you'll see and hear less so your situational awareness would drop. Again, not a very smart idea.

Roll cage with stock seats and proper FIA 4 point harnesses plus a helmet: The harness will hold you in place a bit better but you'll still move around a bit too much with the stock seats. The stock seats are also mounted too high up so your helmeted head will still crunch on stuff.

Doing it right requires taking a 'full system' approach like somebody mentioned above. FIA spec Rollcage + FIA spec race seats + FIA spec seat rails + an FIA spec 6 pointed harness + an FIA spec helmet + a HANS device will keep you pretty nice and safe since you're sitting lower, you're held firmly in place by the seat and harness and your head is supported by the HANS device and protected by a proper helmet.

It's worth noting that a good cage will incorporate door bars in addition to at least around 6 mounting points so you'd get added side protection as well.

Could you daily drive a setup like this? Maybe but I wouldn't advise it. It's a real pain in the ass to climb through the cage, into the seats a clip up your 6 point harness each time you drive the car. Also, since you're body is bolted in tighter you'd get a whole lot more force directed at your neck in a crash if you didn't wear your helmet & HANS device.

TL;DR I prefer to focus on active safety and defensive driving in order to not get into a crash in the first place. If you're driving on the street the stock safety systems should be enough to protect you as well as anything possible.

Track safety systems only work on the track and mixing track and street systems won't save your bacon.

Also worth noting that any safety system will only work up to a certain point. Those supposedly 'invincible' German cars will crumple up into a tinfoil ball just like anything else under the wrong circumstances, or at higher speeds. Most safety systems are only tested up to the speed limit after all, and only under specific conditions.

Plenty of evidence of crumpled German luxobarges lying around Musafah and similar industrial areas in the UAE.

Stay sharp, stay smart and drive safe!

Thread hijack.
I appreciate that roll overs are rare but it intrigues me when i see soft tops with some sort of roll protection but the driver's head is above the level of the bar. When does the bar come into play? When the driver's head has been worn down to his shoulders?

High quality roll bars (Hard Dod and Boss Frog) - not to be confused with the nonfunctional 'style bars' you're referring to - are designed to protect above the driver's head level and have been proven to work countless times in the Miata world, but that's a very different car and a whole other topic.

what roll cage is that?
 

what roll cage is that in this picture?

The rollcage is from a Subaru BRZ RA. Its a track ready BRZ.

holy thread necro