Replacing headers only
 

I'm thinking about replacing the headers only, seeing as header back exhausts are showing v.little gain (unless they're being tuned in which case you can't really say if the exhaust is the source of the gain, or the tune is)

Has anyone else thought about doing this?

Multiple people have. You need to search. Also, you say you won't have much gains with a headerback without a tune. I hope you plan on getting a tune with a header because it really won't do nearly as much without one, plus you'll get a CEL. I've heard a car with a Borla header and everything else stock. Sounds like a lawn mower.

I did plan on getting a tune, just was more commenting why I didn't see the need to replace any other part of the exhaust.

I've not yet seen someone do it with a header that is designed for this type of setup, only example of people using headers that are designed for 60mm or 65mm piping.

That's the first thing i've installed, the borla UEL and then got tuned right away. Everything else stock for the time being.

Something you'd recommend?

Honestly it's whatever you'd like,for me i saw that headers + tune did the most gains in terms of getting rid of the torque dip. it's the best you can do for a N/A set up unless you are looking into a supercharger or turbo kit? Let's just say my gas mileage isn't the best after getting this set up :thumbup: Ultimately it is up to you

I've been running the Borla UEL untuned with no other exhaust mods for a couple months and am mildly impressed. The sound changed slighty toward what I was hoping for but not enough and power wise only a slight increase in the old butt dyno. Would I have done it differently? Maybe if you had asked me 2 weeks ago before the Abu Dhabi police started cracking down on "modified" vehicles. Otherwise, looking forward to having the money for a tune after the holidays

That's exactly what I'd do, if I was on a budget. Borla UEL + OpenFlash.

Doing this currently: header, OP/FP, and tune to come.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51300
It seems stock muffler is not enough to keep rasp down with aftermarket header and/or FP?

I was considering it but decided to go all the way. At first I wanted just he header, then I found out that FA20Club was coming to Houston for a dyno day and decided that if I'm going to have them locally tune it I may as well get the full exhaust so the tune is dialed in perfectly for everything. Better to me than paying twice for a tune when I would inevitably get the rest of the exhaust later anyways. So I have revworks on the way, and now have perrin header-back.

What? Really? How did I miss this? They already did, or is this still happening?

November 30th they will be here.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49694

Those guys are supercharged. 50% more power means 50% more exhaust, which the muffler mustn't be able to handle.

That said, I had the same sc, but never had that problem.

Its not that bad, I actually kinda like it. Best way I can describe it is kinda like the stock E46 M3 but rumbly.

I have borla uel with catless front pipe and openflash stg2. Everything else is stock, I love the sound.

Somewhat raspy but no drone. Definitely noticeable but not super loud
Cold start is louder than I would like, it can be quieted down a bit with more tuning

We are not getting 50% more power/flow on cold start or throttle blip...

Rasp shouldn't be as bad as mine since you have the stock OP and DP. Tune also has something to do with it. If ya open the exhaust valve up sooner or if your ignition timing is more retarded then I think you'll get more combustion sound into the exhaust. I'll post a video later.

For anyone thinking of doing this, you want to be sure to get headers that are designed for this purpose.

You don't want to get headers that are made for a 60mm or 65mm system, because then they go into the stock 54mm oem exhaust, and you end up with a 3mm 'ring' that will cause turbulence.

I ordered the JDL UEL header a week ago. The rest of the exhaust and intake will stay stock. It will get a tune of course.

I just want to get rid of as much of the torque dip as possible. I don't really even care about any gains up top. I also want to keep things quiet

All the aftermarket header/stock everything else setups I hear are hella raspy


yo

Your wrong. Look at Perrins Blog with a header back system, tune and intake they got 31 whp. I would probably get a Header/front/over pipe/axle back or just a header back system as I dont like how loud n raspy headers make an exhaust.

I would like to see a 2.5 inch perrin exhaust w/ front/over pipe and a catted header to see how that sounds. The 3 inch system seems like it would be really loud with headers.

Did they try with header only, intake and tune?
Otherwise, putting the gain down to the header back is misguided.

You can see how little most header backs do for an NA build, by how little the gains are.

Sure, there's always good gains when there is a custom tune applied, the same applies to an full stock exhaust with a tune.

31 whp is little gain? That is a good amount for just a header back/intake/tune. More than enough for many people who plan to stay NA or just want to do bolt ons.

If you get all the bolt ons and dont get a tune your doing it wrong. A tune is the best mod you can do that gives you the best gains. It should be the first mod you do IMO. It helps with gas and will pay for it self over time. So the earlier you do it the better. If I had to spend 1000 dollars on anything it would be a tune and probably an intake duct/drop in filter if theres enough left over.

Re-read my post, specifically the first and second sentences.

Then, before you post, re-read them again.

I'm running a Borla UEL catless header, OFT tune, drop in filter and a modified intake snorkel. This combo will reduce the torque dip and provide close to the maximum horsepower you can expect to achive out of this motor unless you go FI. I could spend twice the $1100 amount to replace the remaining exhaust components which would likely produce negligible performance gains. Doing so would also have the potential of creating additional problems such as fitment issues, drone and rasp depending on the exhaust components chosen.

I actually enjoy the sound of this header only setup. It's fairly quiet, not raspy and has a little boxer rumble under heavy acceleration. The wife and neighbors approve and it doesn't attract unwanted attention from police. However, I'm old and this is my commuter car. Maybe someday I'll install an axle back for a little more rumble and weight loss but for now I just slapped on a couple of Vibrant exhaust tips and called it a day.

OP, I feel a catless header only is a great upgrade path providing you combine a tune with it. The performance bang for your buck ratio is pretty good.

At least do this - Header + Overpipe + Front Pipe with HFC or without

Have you abandoned the light weight goals?

If your gonna say headerback with no tune I could understand but you dont even mention that. Anyone who has a header back and basic bolt ons I would assume already has a tune. Almost everyone who has a header back has a tune.

Nope. Sometimes I just ask questions about stuff.
Took my seat out and weighed it today, 19.7kg. Bride is only 5.5kg.

Enjoying that scale you bought?

I dunno... from all the reading I have done on exhausts headers + A tune is by far the best way to net some gains and help with that dreadful tq dip. WIth a tune being the most important add on.

But, I just feel like you are going to be robbing yourself of some power and breathe-ability if you open up the headers with a mod and leave the rest of the exhaust (all 80% of it) stock with its stock size diameter and such. I feel this is especially true with respect to the OP/DP. Air is going to come sailing out of that engine through the headers and then come to a slow down right from its exit. Not to mention the stock muffler likely acts as a bottleneck.
I dont have any proof or dyno's to support this.. just my thoughts. I would be willing to bet the stock exhaust (except for headers) will sound more quiet than with an after market stock which is good.

Different people have different ideas of "raspy".. I still have a stock exhaust, and I don't think my headers & over/front pipe (with hi-flo cat) is raspy at all.. Maybe people who eliminate the cat get a raspier noise, but I love how mines sound. Sounds like a quiet aftermarket exhaust.

Sigh.

I'm NOT saying anything about a tune not being worth it.

I said two things
1. Most of the gains I have seen that can be attributed to an exhaust component are from the header.
2. Header back systems that show a gain, that have had a tune; you cannot put that gain down to the headerback, unless you have performed the tune before and after the headerback was installed.

Saying that x car gained 31whp from a headerback only, intake, and tune, and implying that the headerback is therefore good, is misguided. You might have gained 30whp with just the intake and tune.

If the stock headerback was indeed so bad, you'd see immediate gains by replacing them, even untuned, the fact is you don't.

Yea'p. I thought it was stuffed actually, because it wouldn't hold a solid reading. Turns out it was because I had it near a window and the wind hitting what I was weighing was being registered by the scale.

Dat accuracy.

Nice. What scale did you buy? I may get the same one if it's that good.

I just got some chingwai one. Seems to do the job. Was about $150. Can do upto 50kg, 1 gram resolution.

Damn. I was going to just get two. One for small weights, and one for larger ones. But if they make them to go up that heavy and still be accurate down low and up high... I might just get that instead.