German Car Ownership
 

Trying to get all the info that I can before I decide whether to keep my car or foray into the world of German cars. I have a year and a half until my lease on my FRS is up, and I'll either finance the remaining 17K or move on.

The cars that get me most excited are all German. Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Audi. I'd cap my price range at around 40k, and that's at the most. I love coupes, so I'd be looking at something like a new 4 series/A5 or a used Cayman/E550/S5/6 series/etc.

I'm looking for input from people who have owned these types of cars in the past or do currently. Did you have a lot of problems? Were maitenance or repair costs so outrageous that you regretted buying the car? Ever made a decision similar to mine as far as buying your leased car or getting a new one? Just any input is appreciated.

never owned a German car, but never buy a used BMW

7-9 quarts of synthetic oil isn't cheap.

Overnighting parts from Germany isn't cheap, either.

Fixt.

Coil Packs, Coil Packs everywhere

Because obligatory:

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4686025287732598&pid=1.7

No shit an acquaintances brand new Audi came from PDI with a CEL.

I'm in the exact same boat. Finance this asap or get a used Cayman at the end...hmmm. I've owned 2 VWs (still have my 10' Golf TDI) and I must say they are worth every penny.

Fully direct injected cars = massive carbon deposit build. Audi/VW 2.0TFSI "cough cough"

I used to drive 2006 A4 2.0T. It was a great car. Quality, performance, looks were all plus. Major issues I had was fuel pump malfunctioning, coilpacks and torque converter. There were lots of stuff that were on recall and dealer replaced it. Fuel pump was out of pocket.. $930 for replacing fuel pump.. The reason I took it in dealer is due to computer programming after replacing the pump. Whatever. Some misc. check engine light, but I wasn't really worried. Coilpack was replaced under recall, but it decided to go bad again. Dealer only covers once -_-... Torque converter... that's the major reason why I sold the car. Not sure if it was resolved, but quattro automatics were equipped with torque converters and many had the same issue. RPM will fluctuate on cruising speed. talked to local vw/audi shop and they quoted $2500 (Parts itself were around 1800). So imagine what the dealer will charge.

I would've kept the car if it was a manual. Engine was still strong at 138k miles.

German cars has quality, aesthetic and performance.. it will at some point hunt you down with expensive maintenance, but it'll perform strong once it is resolved.

Although my experience was not on the level of German cars you are looking at, I traded in a 2011 GTI for the BRZ.

LOVED the solid build quality of the German car, and really thought the whole check engine light had to be a myth in the modern day...I was wrong. 1 week into owning the car...CEL. 1 month into owning the car...another CEL. 4 or 5 CEL's later and I got the picture.

I haven't had any major problems with my 2011 GTI which I still own. One of the windows used to squeel on the way down (fixed) and the rear washer nozzle leaks (I don't use it anymore), but that's not too different from the issues I've had with my FR-S.

My parents have also owned a C-class for the past 5 years. As long as you find a cheap mechanic or do it yourself, routine maintenance is only slightly more than with Japanese cars. Be warned though - major repairs will cost you an arm and a leg.

I've had pretty good luck with my Cayman - so far, I've put about 10k miles on it (bought it with a bit over 40k), and I've only had 1 problem (broken shift linkage, which wasn't too expensive to fix). Brakes are expensive though (I had to do the front brakes/rotors not too long ago), and they wear faster than they do on most other cars, and oil changes are expensive too (but the interval is pretty long). Overall, I think it's well worth it, but if something significant does go wrong, it'll be expensive.

Just wait until you put another 40K on it :D

I'm not concerned - Porsches do prety well in that regard (especially compared to older BMWs/VWs/Audis).

Porsche reliability? Check every model other than the 911. :bellyroll:

Even the 911's, at least the water cooled ones. I miss my old 73 911, back in the simple days. Not to bad mouth them - every car, even the FR-S/BRZ/GT86 has its QC issues - it's just that Porsche failures cost an order of magnitude more than these cars. I'd rather spend my money on track days :party0030:

I have a 1996 Porsche 911 c2 with roughly 100k miles on it currently, and it was a very reliable daily driver.

CEL light comes on every once in a while but I just ignore it and it goes away. It's an old Porsche thing.

The 987 Caymans do pretty well, actually (as do 987 Boxsters). 986 Boxsters had problems, as did 996 911s, but they mostly fixed those with the 987/997 generation. 981/991 hasn't been out long enough to decide how reliable they are yet. On the whole, Porsche sports cars are quite reliable though, if you avoid the 986 generation.

As for Panameras/Cayennes? I have no idea, but I don't particularly care either.

A friend of mine gave a me ride in his 2006 Cayenne.
All his instrument panel warning light up like a christmas tree. LOL.

Never had a German car before but I owned Alfa Romeo before so I decided my next car(s) should be with minimum computer interference, no semi automatic Selespeed, DSG, SMG or whatsoever. I'd rather stick with manual or just normal auto torque conv.

From what I can see in friends/family german cars, quality are great but if they breakdown they will cost arm and leg.
And they tend to breakdown after warranty is over.
So better buy used with some warranty left and ensure to check the service history.

IMS bearings, derptastic.

Good feedback so far guys. If I do go with a new German car chances are I will be keeping it for a long time.

I probably won't go with a Porsche just because I'm not sure whether I'll have kids any time soon or not, but I love the cars and I could get a nice Cayman in my price range.

I pretty much want my next car to be nice enough that it doesn't leave anything to be desired (within reason). I want it to have the power, luxury interior, and stunning looks. I love my FRS but it's still a Scion, it's still relatively slow, and the exclusivity factor is slowly fading. I can appreciate the interior for what it is, but it sure would be nice to cruise around with some more bells and whistles.

That was the problem in the 986, yes. In the 987/997, the IMS bearing still exists, but the failure rate is dramatically lower, and I believe the 987.2 got rid of it entirely. I really think it's nothing to worry about though, except on the 986 generation.

New engine architecture with the new 981 and 991 chassis, so I agree the IMS bearing shouldn't be a concern.

I would hope the IMS bearing shouldn't be a concern, since the engine doesn't have an IMS.


(It didn't have one in the 987.2 either - the 987.1 was the last engine in the Boxster/Cayman lineup to have an IMS)

You said that already...

I guess the point I was trying to make was that things like that exist. The IMS issue got a lot of press because it was catastrophic. Motor dead. Certainly we could find things like that on any new car, but given the choice (god forbid) I'll take a catastrophic (or otherwise) failure on my car vs. any Porsche. My wallet just ain't big enough. I used to own an old air cooled 911, loved it to death. It was terribly expensive to repair too, but the thing was simple and just built like a tank. Modern Porsches are fabulous, but they are built like bmws now - comfy, complex, crammed, and more stuff to go wrong. Not trying to preach here, as your wallet may be plenty big enough, but I keep reading equivalencies in price between a new frs and a used cayman, where it simply isn't true. Same goes for all the new bmws and audis, too complicated IMHO.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

I haven't read about Porsche engines that much, but BMW's engines are insanely complicated. The S65 and S85 have 5 oil pumps. Yes you read that correctly, FIVE.

The engine in the 987.2 Caymans has 5 as well, IIRC, which helps avoid the oil starvation problems that can occur on a 987.1 if you track it frequently on R-compound or slick tires.

I have owned a couple German cars and a car with a German engineered engine. Never, never, never again. What they say about perpetual check engine lights, cost of parts and not owning a German brand without a warranty is true. That is why most owners of German cars trade them in as soon as the warranty runs out. In my experience, they also tend to be fairly fragile too (Audi). The only German car that I ever owned that was bulletproof reliable was an Opel Kadet. That was in the early 70s and the body rusted off of it before the car was paid for. Best of luck to you if you decide to take the plunge!

For what it's worth, I've owned a 2011 Audi A3 2.0T for the past year and half with no major issues. Granted, it is still under warranty with AudiCare service, but I've never had to bring my car in for anything other than free maintenance and a loose wheel bearing. I plan on DDing it for another 10k miles or so before I trade it in for something else. It currently has 23k.

On the other hand, my friend owns a 2009 BMW Z4 that had a passenger airbag sensor issue. Luckily it was still under warranty and was replaced for free, but the labor and parts (shipped from Germany) likely would have been very expensive, and it took around 2 weeks before it was fixed. Now that his warranty is up, we'll see how long it takes before something else needs fixing out of pocket.

My parents have owned used Mercedes for a long time. They had a 2002 S430 and currently have a 1998 ML320, 2010 S550, and a bought-new 2011 E350. The S430 had NOTHING but issues, including a self-lowering suspension. The ML320 had tons of problems too. The other 2 cars are still under warranty but I cringe thinking about what's going to happen when they expire.

In short, most German cars should be fine (if somewhat time-consuming) under warranty. Once the warranty is up, GTFO.

My '03 E46 that I bought with 105k miles cost me $5000 in the last 3 months I owned it. New air/oil seperator, new clutch, new gearbox, all sorts of random problems that I'd hardly consider routine replacements or maintenance. And they all cost an arm and a leg.

I bought a continental warranty from the dealer figuring it could easily pay for itself, and they fought tooth and nail not to pay **** because I did my own oil changes, even after I showed them all the receipts.

I'd buy one new. I'd even buy an expired lease from a dealer. But no way, no how will I ever buy another BMW/benz/ESPECIALLY Audi that I haven't owned and maintained from day one.

Audis are ridiculously overpriced for what you get, too. Must be the LEDs.

On the other hand, their diesels are freaking bullet-proof.

Really? I was under the impression that it has 3, 2 scavenge pumps and 1 pump to circulate the oil through the engine. The BMWs have as I recall, a separate pump for the valve timing actuator, and 2 separate pumps for oil circulation (forgot why).

We have a 2006 Audi A6 and a 2012 Audi A7, no problems on either of them. A6 is running fine. The most common problems with 2000+ Audi's is a that the alternator will have to be replaced sometime. Also transmission failures, but i read a recent article that most of the tranny problems could be blame on owners for when going to R to D of not waiting and simply putting the car in drive with the car not fully stopped.

As others have stated do NOT own a modern BMW out of factory warranty even if you perform your own repairs and maintainance. I've owned 5 and dumped my lastest, a 135i, just a few weeks after the warranty expired. I LOVED the car but unless you have deep pockets for repairs and a spare vehicle to drive, as it will be continually broken down, steer far far away from the BMW brand. If you want sticker shock set down in a BMW service department and listen to what their SA's quote victims for repairs. I've personally heard a quote for a routine brake job that was damn near what I can install a BBK on my BRZ for.

I thought it had 4 scavenge pumps, but I could be misremembering here - I haven't looked it up recently...

Ah okay. Well nevertheless, the BMW has 3 separate pumps for mission critical oil pumping (if you don't count the scavenge pumps), which is 3 times more than the Porsche lol.

Address the IMS asap or you're looking at $25k out of pocket when it pops, and that's when, not if. In the interim I'd run really short oil change intervals and cut open the filters every time.

Nope - not really an issue on the 987s. It's a 1 or 2 percent kind of thing (if even that), it requires pulling the engine to replace (so it's really expensive as a preventative item), and I have a 3 year warranty on that anyways (with something like 2.5 years remaining). I'm honestly more worried about low oil pressure when tracking the car than I am about the IMS. If I had a 986 Boxster on the other hand, I'd be concerned.

(Also more like $15k out of warranty, not 25k, but that's kind of irrelevant, since it's absurdly expensive either way)

Eh, I had a late friend who was service manager at the local porsche/audi dealer who liked to inform me of every failure when I was looking.

As I said, the engine is under warranty for the next couple years regardless, so until that runs out, I'm not going to loss sleep over it.