My experiment with additional snorkel
 

Hello,

I've tried additional snorkel after removing main resonator. Also the sound generator has been removed.

Attachment 55856

The initial impression was very weak bottom torque. But engine sound was slightly increased like CAI.

As you know, main resonator contributes to low-end torque. So this is second trial with a plastic bottle. :D Don't worry, it is heat-resistant PET.

Attachment 55857

Low-end torque came back (but not 100%) and sound was kept. Drivability is much better than the first trial.

I remember that @Kodename47 would like to try this kind of thing in http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=295. I wonder he did it or not.

Regards,

Could you just be adding in turbulence to everything?

Is that really a gatorade bottle?

Holy shit that is a gatorade bottle, its clear some of the civic kids are buying 86s now.

Is this for real

wat

:suicide: really.

Dont be an ass.. He trying different things, using easy to find items that fit..
Would you rather spends hundreds of dollars on a nice looking plastic piece that didn't perform? I think many are interested in seeing the results of these homemade tests.
Kudos to the OP.. thanks for sharing..

I've had 3 Civics, two of which were stock looking and boosted - and the other bone stock, so you are like a car racist.

You forgot to post the before and after dyno sheets. Without them you really couldn't have any idea what effect (if any) these changes made to anything other than the intake sound.

I'm sure that you thought you felt real differences but it's actually just the placebo effect.

I see your point.

Surely full load output should be important to this kind of mod. The stock setup is just two rivet holes away, so I can easily restore to the stock state and have dyno sessions to make evidence for improvement. But you know that it takes some time and money. I could make some data log using Torque app rather than doing dyno tests.

Anyway, 3rd gear 80-120kph compared to the stock 86 was almost same. So at least rpm band used that test wasn't badly affected, maybe.

But the torque decrease in bottom-end could be felt easily when you just release a clutch pedal to launch a car. Another problem is that dyno tests cannot show part load outputs. Real life drivability is relied on the partial throttle region as I think.

I know the possible collision inside the dirty side of the air box.
I have thought adding an air guide to separate two inlets.
Currently air may collide freely. :D

The gatorade bottle mod reminds me of a 'water hammer arrestor' used in plumbing to smooth flow in relation to valves slamming open and shut. Considering that long-tube exhaust headers improve low end torque by smoothing air flow ... It's beyond my competence to speculate further.

What could be happening is that air is going in through the stock snorkel and out through your added snorkel. The air wants to go where there is the least resistance, so it might be easier to go down the piping than through the filter and into the throttle body.

I just feel like there's a reason why no one has done this before.

Maybe a vitamin water bottle will yield better results?! :lol:

I like Torque a lot but it's very inaccurate and unsuitable for such measurement, IMO. A dyno session isn't really warranted either since, as you pointed out, it doesn't measure part-throttle and it is also difficult to accurately measure minute differences on the order expected here.

When you were testing, did you reset the ECU between mods and then drive a sufficient distance to allow the ECU to adapt to the mod? I submit that the perceived loss of low end tq might well have been a slight change in measured load caused by a change in MAS signal slope. Perhaps the intake mod caused a lean spot?

I suppose my point here is that I believe it to be almost impossible to accurately measure and quantify the effects of such minor changes solely by "feel". A flow bench would be ideal. Still, it is fun to experiment and if it feels better to you, than why not? Good luck with it.

dude that gatorade bottle is gonna melt. i hope you only had it in there for testing purposes

I never did get around to doing it - I figured there was nothing to be gained. @Fast Freddie if you look at my post linked above, you'll see that it definitely leaned out at the bottom end.

The path of least resistance would be into the cylinder that's pulling a vacuum. The reason it hasn't been done is because the stock snorkel is perfectly adequate for the motor's level of horsepower, if not a little bit more. But people are convinced that the resonators somehow "choke" the motor...sometimes engineering solutions aren't "pretty", but they do the job.

I think it is awesome to do something like that. For instance, I'm pretty damn sure I lost power by removing that Sound Generator w/ the Perrin Intake. Had CELs, reset ECU, and the power isn't quite the same. Used to be able to hit 61MPH in 2nd before the limiter, and now I hit 60 as the limiter kicks in. Been quite a few miles since ECU reset, I'm just hoping it comes back.

I usually try not to criticise people, but those mods are hell ghetto and probably decrease performance by adding too much turbulence. Your better off using the Gatorade lid to block off the sound generator, and taping up the side of the airbox so there's less turbulence.

Also, a good engine clean wouldn't go astray

I give you a 7/10 for effort though.

Hey sometimes youve gotta use what you gotta use. I used a gatorade cap to temporarily block mine off so there's no need to knock the guy for wrenching around. If it works then try to make it look pretty later

Its all about the volume of that bottle, and the location/distance from the throttle body. The volume is meant to dampen shockwaves from the valves opening and closing. Doing so aligns the waves to be more in sync with the rpm's at a certain range. Changing the volume of that tank basically changes what rpm the torque hits

Its basically the same theory behind the design of the intake manifold plenum and runners. You have a ton of different variations in runner length and plenum size depending on the build of the engine, way its driven, etc.

Please dyno this

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Please tell me you necroed this just for fun.

Is that hose pulling warm/hot engine bay air into the air box?

I just wanted to see if it gave actual results

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They have these plugs that expand you can get at AutoZone. There is a whole thread about it somewhere. It'll make it look cleaner. But I'm down with the "you gotta do what you gotta do" life lol

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Ummmm... power doesn't determine what speed you hit in a given gear at a given rpm. That's the gear ratio and nothing else.

At that time I've just pushed the hose into the space after passenger side fig lamp. It could be better to open up the fog lamp and connect the hose to it directly.

Apexi did it.

https://www.apexi-usa.com/products/a...ubaru-brz-2022

this

Holy necro batman!

I prefer the ram air snorkle from Greddy.

Nowadays I use this printed snorkel that is similar to the HKS one. But snorkels are before the resonator in the intake path.
Attachment 218029

I just would like to emphasize that a major tuning parts company like Apexi did try the same thing.

https://www.apexi-usa.com/products/i...-86-subaru-brz

I agree with the opinion that this is a ghetto-mod. I am in the camp that says that what makes it sound louder or cooler does not always add to real performance which should be the priority. On my 2017 BRZ I very quickly tired of the noise piped into the the car, so I first put the power outlet cap on the hose inside the car. Then I removed the 'Toyobaru Kazoo' completely and plugged the inlet. Something was not quite right after that. I put the sound creator back on the car and plugged the hose the way it was the first time. My take on this is that along with the other resonators, the tube that runs from the intake to the sound creator diaphragm must have been worked into the equation. If I kept the 2017, I most certainly would have not tried to modify the existing intake, but I would go with one of the aftermarket options. Makes for a cleaner mod anyway. On my 2022 BRZ, two days after I got it home, I unplugged the stupid electronic sound creator. Funny thing: the car did not slow down one bit.

Where i can find that one?

Which one? The printed snorkel or the Apexi Intake-D?

For the snorkel it is not public atm.

I like this one cause it's black.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/..._AC_SX679_.jpg

I saw your post in the other forum where you were seeing increased load from midrange RPMs onwards without any loss on the low end; that technically proves the snorkels can present gains without any drawbacks. Was that graph before or after AVCS tuning?

I have someone who is also trying out a new snorkel - similar to the HKS intake duct V2 to test as a prototype.

It's after AVCS tuning for the non-bellmouth snorkel. But it is not the stock vs short one comparison.