Starting in 2nd Gear?
 

So, as I'm learning stick, I'm still really jerky starting in 1st and shifting into 2nd. I'm curious about starting in 2nd gear instead because I feel a lot more competent shifting between 2nd and 3rd and so on.

I've tried to do some research on it, but I've read conflicting reports. Some say it will wear the clutch faster because you're slipping it a bit longer. Other's say they start in 2nd gear and see their clutch last 80-100k miles. What's more, I've seen others state that close-ratio transmissions can start in 2nd just fine.

Obviously, I will try to learn how to start in 1st properly, but I'm just wondering if starting in 2nd is a viable option for this car? I tried searching the forums for existing topics, but no dice.

I think first is there for a reason. Don't think second gear start off is a great idea...

Start in first and ur car will be happier, do will ur tires and gas tank. U start in second only 1 of 2 ways.

A) lots of wheel spin from dumping it. This burns tires and gas.
B) lots of bogging down from not enough gas. This will consume more gas to get up to speed.

Obviously neither are going to brake the car acceptionaly fast by any means. But the car wouldn't have a first gear if it didn't serve a purpose.

If ur having trouble, first get is always the trickiest. Do what I did, find a hill and practice start/stoping with out killing it. Once you learn to feather the clutch/gas you are golden.

Interesting. While I was out practicing tonight, I tried a couple starts from 2nd. Even with wet roads (rained a couple hours ago), I didn't have any wheel spin or engine lugging. I did admittedly slip the clutch longer than I would have in 1st, but only by a half second or so.

I'm not trying to defend starting in 2nd or anything like that, I understand that starting in 1st is better for the car and a better practice in general. I just want to see if anyone else here starts in 2nd and if so, what has their experience been.

I do appreciate the responses though, all input is useful! :D

Lol in all honesty I can start this car in third or even fourth. The gearing is so close. But I wouldn't recommend it.

What about handbrake hill starts or edging forward in a traffic jam?
First gear is there for good reason.

I don't see any issue with 2nd gear starts. No wheels spin whatsoever (doesn't make sense that you'd spin in 2nd but not in first) and no real engine lugging. With such a short 1rst gear, 2nd is almost perfect to start off in on flat ground or downhill. I wouldn't recommend it for hills though.

Figure it out.. 1st gear is there for a reason.. Learn how to drive a stick and use it. Takes practice to get it right.. Slipping 2nd gear is dumb.
By an automatic if you can't figure it out..

If I'm going downhill from a complete stop, I just ease into 2nd gear smoothly while the car rolls forward. Otherwise I use 1st gear to start. I just don't like the sound of engine bogging in 2nd gear on flat ground - besides, it requires extra energy and time to start movement from a higher gear.

Doing a clutch pedal adjustment (in the DIY section) is really gonna help you.

If you had really low gears, say a jeep rubicon. 1st gear in that goes to like 15 at redline,then you may consider starting in 2nd, but this 1st gear is not that short, 30+ mph in a gear is not short. But if u don't like shifting why not just start in 6th, I mean what could it hurt? You would just need to slip the clutch for like 30 seconds, take it to an extreme when you think about it, that will allow you to see the damage you are causing.

start in 1st, just practice more

Probably nothing wrong with starting in second but instead I suggest you work on polishing your skills. Try starting in first gear but not taking it up very high in the rpm range. Start slow and shift into second 'slowly'. Use first gear to do little more than get the car rolling. It takes a lot of practice to become good with a manual. Don't give up. Keep in mind that just because a person drives a car with a manual transmission doesn't mean they have to drive it hard. You can drive a manual as nice and easy as your neighbor can drive his automatic.

There is nothing wrong with starting in second as long as you are doing it in moderation. In fact, when there is snow/ice on the ground I recommend starting in second sometimes so you avoid wheel spin and getting stuck.

But you definitely want to continue practicing first gear. So much of this is muscle memory with the gas, clutch, and your foot. The more you do it, the easier it will get :)

This car has such a small engine I really recommend you not start off in second gear unless traction is very low. This is especially the case if you are just learning to shift manually. Your clutch just isn't intended for that level of wear.

The factory clutch pedal height is too high off the floor, everyone who drove my car for the first time stalled it, including me. Every one of those drivers had over 100,000 miles of experience shifting a manual, most had considerably more experience. The Subaru clutch engagement point is also too high off the floor.

Adjust both the pedal height and the clutch engagement (bite) point so that the bottom edge of the pedal is no more than 5 inches off the floor, measured at approximately 90 degrees from the the pedal to the carpet under the pedal, (meaning from the ideal to where it reaches the floor) and the pedal free play amount remains the same. Total Pedal stroke has to be between 4.25 inches and 4.5 inches to ensure clean shifting.

My dealer did this as a free warranty adjustment at the first oil change at 2,000 miles (6 months for me). I sent my dealership the the link to the excellent video and still photo clutch adjustment thread on this site to assist their mechanics after I was told the clutch bite point isn't adjustable, which is true. Actually you are just moving the clutch engagement point in the pedal travel. The actual clutch operation isn't changed and is not adjustable, only the pedal can be adjusted.

I have never stalled my car. I have found the manual and clutch in this car to be one of the smoothest I have ever owned. And I have owned lots.

Try to get the car going without any gas first. You need to find the 'catch' point of the clutch and once you get that position memorized, it makes getting the car rolling that much easier.

This was a bit of a paradigm shift for me when I was first learning a few months back:

1) learning clutch grab point is important but I would argue learning the feel of the accelerator to feather at ~800-1K RPM is just as if not more important for a beginner

2) clutch to the floor, feather to ~800RPM (you can pre-empt this when at intersections so that you don't have too slow of a start)

3) slowly release clutch until grab point while feathering, clutch will catch - hold it at catch point for half a second or so, then let out clutch all the way while adding gas above and beyond feather point of ~800 - I try to be around 1.5K RPM when foot is completely removed from clutch.

When transitioning from first to second:

1) foot off accelerator, clutch in to the floor
2) shift first to second
3) before easing clutch back out, add a bit of gas (same pressure as if you would while feathering ~800RPM) and hold briefly at catch point, as you release clutch, add gas as you would when going 0 --> 1st

I've started in 2nd on accident a couple of times. Don't think it'll hurt much as long as you're gentle.

there's only 2 ways to approach this problem!

1- take the pill and be a man and keep trying, if its not easy it means your still getting better at it (witch is a good thing)!
2- use second gear and put off learning until chicken have teeth !

Great input guys. I'll have to do the clutch adjustment when I get a chance because I tried driving a friends civic today, and I had a significantly easier time getting into first. I'm just dreading the job as I already have a bad back ; _ ;

Service manual says 4.125 to 4.25" iirc. There are also full instructions in it for adjusting the clutch so don't let dealers give you bull.

buy*

Think of 2nd gear starts as the manual transmission version of the "Snow mode".. and should only be used as such.

Thanks for that correction. I didn't have the exact numbers in front of me and I didn't want to err on the wrong side.

My dealer didn't bull me, the clutch bite point isn't adjustable at the clutch which, technically is where the bite point happens. Once the mechanic got the links he understood I meant only to adjust the pedal height and the pushrod length together. They did a great job for me.

Hey bro just wanted to let you know that we're in the same boat! I just got my BRZ Sun night and I stalled the shit out of it and couldn't even drive it that night, had to get my mom to drive it home LOL (got it from Clint, and the truck dropped it off @ a big parking lot).

Then on Mon I was a lot better - I think I stalled 3 times but had many successful starts, although I would say around half of them were a little rough and 10% of them were very rough.

Then today I was driving around my neighborhood again and I only stalled when I was practicing starting on a hill (on my driveway, which is pretty damn steep).

What I realized I was doing wrong, was not taking my time letting off the clutch. Coming from an automatic, the way I think of it is that instead of the gas controlling the gar, in a manual the clutch controls the car.

I'm still not confident enough to take it too far yet, I know my reaction time if I have to move out of the way quickly or whatever would be quite slow and I don't want to get into an accident xD

Definitely, I made the mistake of making a commute out to Temecula, (coming from my work, about 60 miles) during rush hour traffic. After having my car for one day. Ironically, I didn't stall on the freeway. It was only at the light on my exit where I had real issues.

I plan on doing that clutch adjustment everyone's been going on about, because apparently it drastically changes the feel of the clutch. I'd rather fix it and adjust to it now than to get comfortable with how it is, and then have to relearn it all over again.

Oh snap, I just noticed you're from the Inland Empire! I went to school at UCR lol.

Haha yea I'm over here in Claremont technically LA county but right on the edge. Right now I am going to citrus probably going to xfer to cal poly pomona. Hope you are enjoying the car as much as I am! I am really getting the hang of it now. This weekend I am probably going to drive all around lol

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Haha right on. I know there are socal drivers out there, just need to start meeting them. I'm starting to get a feel for my clutch (haven't done the adjusment yet). I think my issue is that I'm so used to my maxima with it's tall gearing and what not. I'm not used to getting into that 3k-4k rev range. Used to just idling around in 1k, 2k tops.

I don't get it:iono: The FR-S has the easiest clutch and gear box I've ever driven. I taught a sorority bimbo how to drive it in under 60 minutes. Man up!

Haha, I know I know. I'm starting to get the hang of it. Now I just need to find a place to practice hill starts.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting in 2nd. I often start 2nd shift 4th and 6th. Or start 1st shift 3rd and 6th. Tend to get better mpg this way.

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you're over working your synchros

Care to elaborate?

The bigger issue with starting in second is that you'll wear out the clutch faster. Yes, skip shifting works the synchros a bit harder, but I wouldn't worry about that as much as I'd worry about the clutch.

Yeah I don't see how your synchro would go though any additional wear and tear. IF anything you put a little more stress on the clutch. I've been doing this on my manual cars for years and have never had any issues with premature clutch wear.

This is not a complex concept. You skip shift down through the box frequently. Shift from fourth to second and you'll understand immediately, or should.

The gearbox is constant mesh. All the gears turn all the time. You don't shift the actual gears, you shift dogs that engage the gears to the gear shafts one set at a time.

The synchros have to slow down or speed up the desired gear set at the speed of the previously engaged gear set. This is a lot of work (physics).

The bigger the speed difference between the previously selected gear set and the desired gear set the harder the synchros work. The harder they work the more they wear.

If you skip shift up the box you should delay in neutral to allow the gearbox to spin down a bit. Otherwise you increase wear on the synchros unnecessarily.

Now the first owner of the car won't likely notice this wear but it will show up eventually. If you ever put 100,000 mikes on a manual transmission you will pay the price for incorrect skip shifting.

Some "performance" drivers still insist you must not skip shift up or down the box. This used to be true of crash gearboxes used in racing but not synchronized boxes.

This is just silly advice.