Vs bmw 2 series
 

Brz -> RWD $31k, 200hp, 7s to 60, crickets, AHA head unit
BMW 2 series -> RWD $33k, 240hp, 5.5s to 60, turbo, iDrive and arm rest

Love the BRZ/FRS styling, but Tada, you gotta bring it, man.
Hopefully the general outcry about your engine choice will finally hit home for you and we will see the larger displacement in mid 2014 calendar year.
I'm rooting for you, but when Subaru and these forums told you moar power at the very beginning, I think you should have moved off of your minivan mindset and listened. It's not too late; make us proud!

:thanks:

Ps. Please also consider a 300+hp version. That market does exist!

I do agree that more HP would be nice but as far as the price goes I am getting a White BRZ Limited for few thousand dollars below what you have listed even after shipping, tax, title, and tag. The BMW would cost more IMHO. It is a great looking car and like most BMWs I am sure it is a great drivers car with a nice interior...

:cheers:

-Nate

Well the 2 series look like they could be fun to drive but seriously these luxury brands have styling issue's they all look freaking the same nowadays... you really have to do it for the "performance" and luxuries, because nobody will look twice at your car...

1) You're comparing out the door price for a (limited?) BRZ with MSRP with a good-luck-finding-one-on-the-dealers-lot base 228i.

2) 2800 to 3300 lbs (500lbs difference)

3) No LSD on the 2 series (not even standard on the $44K M235i)

GTFO...



( That said, if I wanted a BMW I'd buy a used E46 M3 )

Clint sells the BRZ Limited for $25-26K. That gives you $7-8k to put in a turbo/supercharger and other upgrades and push the BRZ to 300-400whp (not crank horsepower) and embarrass that BMW. It would not even be close.

Thx
 

I wish I knew Clint, and that I could be certain that such mods wouldn't void the warranty. I live in ATL and my visits to the local dealers have yielded price points at $29.9k for 2013's. The BRZ Limited lists for $31k for my zip code on the Subaru website.

Who's "us"? Do you even own one of these cars?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33553
Clint ships cars all over the country. Someone just posted they picked up a Limited from him for $25,100 (not including shipping, taxes, fees, etc).

When you say $29K are you talking out the door price? Because a BMW 2 series is going to be a lot more than that out the door. With options that are typical of BMW I doubt you will be out the door for under $37K.

The 2 Series is going to be a nice car but there is no LSD on the standard 2 Series. You have to step up to the M2 series which is going to cost close to $50K. You can't just look at specs (horespower and torque) and draw conclusions as to how well the 2 Series would handle vs a BRZ. Go look at the 1 Series vs BRZ threads. There are folks that gave up a 1 Series for a BRZ/FR-S and will tell you there the twins handle much better. I am not even sure if I would classify a BMW 2 series in non M form as a sports coupe. The fact that you can only get a manual transmission in the M2 series (not the standard 2 series) is also a dealbreaker for me.

Yes adding a turbo or supercharger to a BRZ would pretty much ruin your warranty, but try adding LSD to a base model BMW 2 series...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=L8mF9vRsv7s"]Toyota 86 V/S BMW 120i, Mazda Roadster, VW Scirocco [OFFICIAL VIDEO] - YouTube[/ame]

FWIW, I did a market feedback survey on my BRZ the other day where they asked about engine upgrades. I want to say one was a 240-260 hp turbo. (I can't remember the exact hp number) Needless to say I said that I would definitely buy this car with that motor.

Also I think the OP brings up a good topic of conversation. No need to trash the guy...

There's a "Vs ..." subforum, dummy.
If you're gonna troll - go there. Ask mods to move this thread.

Look you have a right to your opinion and a right to express it. But you've chosen an open forum of enthusiasts of these cars to express an opinion that isn't going to be popular. Especially when it comes from a non-owner. On top of that you seem to know how these forums work. It looks like you set yourself up for the hostility. If you are not willing to deal with it, I suggest you find another avenue to express your opinion to Toyobaru.

Apples and Oranges.

There's a sub-forum for these.

FR-S/BRZ vs...

Sorry OP. I DO like the 1M though. :-)

BMWs are sweet cars, but OP, this is 100% true.

I'm willing to deal with it
 

I'm responding to these guys in the most level headed way that I can. Look, I really like the brz and want to buy one. But if you guys really want to keep building and loving the rep of the twins, don't shoot the messenger for pointing out that Tadas team needs to work hard to raise the bar on performance and interior quality or the next round of reviews from Top Gear, Car and Driver, etc might not be as favorable as they were in 2012. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad about their car or investment or decision, I just want those who feel the same as me to be able to exhort Subaru and Toyota to focus on aspects of the car that are discussed in the open threads. Hats off to you guys and respect for being early adopters, but I hope that fundamentally none of us want to see BRZ stagnate in the face of rising competition or go off on a tangent like convertibles sedans etc when the chassis is so capable and close to smoking the German mfgs on all levels.

Another personal attack and name calling
 

Mods move the thread if you feel you have to but I'm not trying to troll. There are tons of threads about how people are dealing w crickets and hate the AHA system and are looking for performance. This was simply trying to build in those sentiments from the perspective of a prospective buyer, one that does not want a sedan, as is making the forum headlines right now.

The possibility of a power upgrade in 2014 is not likely considering the development timelines and Toyota has already stated that there would be no changes until 2015. Also I'm pretty sure Tada/Toyota has market feedback from the last 2+ years and know that upgrades are wanted. I doubt they need to monitor these forums to gain market insights when there are numerous methods of getting more reliable customer feedback directly.

The only reason I bring it up
 

The only reason why I bring it up is bc of the recent 2 series reveal.
The hostility isn't just to me it's to every person who's said a sideways word about the car. If the mods are truly committed to a forum w open and friendly discussions, they shouldn't hang back on standing against personal attacks.
If there were a section for owners only or positive love fest only, I'll be happy to stay out of those areas.

I love my little FR-S. It's an inexpensive car. I feel that when people compare my $25k car to nicer more expensive cars, it's sort of like the parent of a healthy child bragging to the parent of a special needs child. Show me a new car that costs the same as mine if you want to make comparisons. I'm sorry. I love the 1M and Z4 coupe, but frankly I couldn't afford the maintenance on them. OP, I don't know what you are looking to get out of this thread. There are very few of us who regret our purchase. There is a sub-forum specifically for comparing other cars, if you are on the fence, you will learn more there than from starting a new thread. Good luck. :-(

Wrong forum - check..
BRZ could use a bit more power - check..
New 2 series is a bomb - check..

I thought the guidance was vague
 

I thought that there was uncertainty over whether the boost would come w the 2015 model or the 2015 calendar year. If there's any chance of me or us influencing that, imma try! :)

:facepalm: There's no boost coming. You won't influence anything. You might be able to tell 2 series owners their cars can handle better than ours to make their egos grow even more (not like that is possible). Just stop.

I'm with you buddy
 

What I love is that Top Gear has compared the FR-S really favorably to both in the past, going so far as to basically call the Z4 overweight and horrible to drive in comparison. My goal was simply try to get others who feel the same as I do to tell tada together in a loud voice to focus his time and possible weight gains on sports performance and interior quality instead of sedans and convertibles and hatchbacks. Seriously, none of you agree? Someone please say hey Guy I feel you on that.

1-800-438-6334473425 is the direct line to Tada if you want.

That's 1-800-GET-OFFHIS****

I looked at your build thread. Looks like you're trying to do lots of upgrades on your own. Cool. Doesn't mean you have to try to shit on everyone who would like similar improvements from the start without voiding the warranty. The interwebz and forums like this are a perfectly legitimate way of discerning the voice of the customer. The phone number you gave is clearly not.

I would make upgrades regardless of any vehicle I purchased. The only warranty I may have voided were my struts. I haven't updated my build thread in decades anyways. And idk what you're talking about, that phone number takes me right to Tada.

You're an idiot if you believe your forum posts are going to influence anything.

Many of us have no desire to see the twins push past the 30k price point. Yeah I'd love a bit more shove but if it happens it won't be for the '14 model. And as likely as a 2.5 motor is it's also very likely that with it will come fewer revs and a less focused character. It'd be a dman shame to lose that.

If they can deliver a 2.5l at the same weight, same revs or higher, more power, and the same price then I'm all for it.

You posted a flame bait thread and that is what I gave you.

Every single competitor to this car has more power, so posting a thread pointing out a car that has more power for a similar price is a waste of time and space. The fact that all you do is post power numbers and 0-60 proves you know little or nothing about what makes an owner of this car satisfied with their underpowered overpriced purchase.

Please go.

@guysmyley

Want to compare the FT86 to the new BMW 2 series, sounds great.

Problem is with your approach. Your MSRP and 0-60 time are way off (try $28k and 6.0sec). You try to make it sound as if the loaded FT86 (BRZ Limited) is similar to a base BMW 225i in amenities, and price...but are wrong.

Reality is the CLA250 and BMW 2 series are great cars in their segment. I just priced out a 125i with the same amenities (Leather, Navigation, Xenon HID, etc) as a BRZ Limited, and it came in at $39k, ~ 30% more.

I do have to say once the 235is comes out, I might be tempted to give it a test drive, but as of right now I'm looking at a ~300hp ($4k) turbo for my BRZ that will obliterate the non M 2 series, and still put me under 225i base MSRP.

Intersting video. Btw, F... street racers
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDksXTRVqu8"]GTR vs FRS - YouTube[/ame]

Exactly and I'm with you
 

Cool video! Thx for sharing. That's all I want Toyaburu to do. Hook it up for this refresh in mid 2014. How hard can that be!

It's a lot harder than you think. I know you want more power and so do others. But there cons to everything.

$45k wallet? Ok - get a BRZ Limited AND a used E46 M3, or E39 M5.

Option that 2 series out to the same specs as the BRZ Limited (leather, nav, XM, heated seats, fog lights, auto dual climate control, keyless start/entry, etc) and see where the prices end up. Now take that 40 extra hp and consider you've picked up 500 extra pounds of weight in the BMW. Now look at the aftermarket support on the BMW (use a 1 Series that's been out for 5 years already as a comparison if you want) - if you want to change anything, the BRZ aftermarket has everything from arm rests to spoilers, suspension, superchargers, engine management, full exhausts, wheels, etc. Don't expect the BMW to have a fraction of that stuff available, and the stuff that will be available (Dinan, etc) is going to cost 2-3x!!

So you've got a $28k car vs a $36k car - there's not much cross shopping going on there between a sporty tuner Subaru and a BMW coupe.

Yeah, when factories add power they almost always add weight and cost. I don't want either. There are a lot of us who don't think improving the car has to include factory added HP.

As someone said earlier you don't seem to have an appreciation for what this car is all about. May I suggest you just buy one, drive it for awhile, take to the track, and autoX, or a drift event. Really get a feeling for it then decide if you need more horsepower, or even like it all. If you like it that's great. If you like it but still think it needs more HP, drive it until the warranty is up and then go the aftermarket for more. If you don't like it all, sell it, you won't lose much and buy your BMW.

Right now all you're talking about is numbers. Numbers are not what this car is about.

lol at 1 year refresh. and that refresh giving increased power output. Now you confirm talking out of your ass

I don't see how this is even close to a valid comparison.

Lighten the ft86 up a little more on your own, do a full headerback exhaust and a tune. The car is now fun as hell to drive. Far more fun than my old 400whp STI or Camaro SS. I don't care what the numbers say.

Wrong Thread Thank you.....BTW, Buy an R8 if you want a dragster...

Funny OP joined before you did by months.....................And like other have said, 31,000 for a BRZ is the wrong price!!!!!

Join date is irrelevant, has a dozen posts every single one complaining about power.

There are plenty of cars already available with any amount of power you want

Hows about you just post your address so I can barge into your home and start commenting on how ugly and short your wife is and that I can't wait till you divorce her for a new upgraded model with longer legs and bigger tits.