Subaru BRZ and Toyota GT86 twins: not the drifter everyone says they are
 

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Communi...e-cars-of-now/

"Here’s the rub: the BRZ/GT86 isn’t very sideways. Yes, if you pull the handbrake or give it a big Scandinavian Flick on the track the thing will adopt the kind of angles usually fleetingly glimpsed by WRC spectators just before Jari-Matti Latvala plummets off a cliff face, but then so would a Kia Picanto.

The BRZ/GT86 is a brilliant thing to drive, but it has very little power, which means you need to drive it absolutely flat out and throw it around in a way that’s often impossible out on the road, simply because you can’t see what’s coming round the next bend and therefore can’t commit to the accelerator – just like that old AE86. Ironically, it actually takes a whole heap of skill and years of experience to unlock the potential of a car that we’ve been told is perfect for rear-drive novices.

So here’s what’s going to happen: said hot hatchers will pick the car up from the dealership, turn all the traction control off and go for a blast. They’ll drive it as hard as they dare, swinging it through corners and stamping on the gas, chucking it into hairpins and willfully trying to unsettle the rear, and all the while traction will be total. And you know what, not one of those drivers will say anything about it, because they’ll be too scared to be the limp-wristed bloke that can’t even drift what they’ve been told is the most driftable car in decades.

Great car, that BRZ/GT86, and it’s a safe way to learn the basics of rear-wheel drive, but be warned: it won’t turn you into an overnight drift sensation."

Now, I know some of you will say, "Nobody said this will be a good drift car as stock." But it has certainly been implied and desired to be by many. I don't really care but I do think that a little more torque would have made this car that much more popular and fun.

That is good news. It may save some crumpled fenders and maybe even a few lives.

Has Toyota or Subaru actually say that this car is the best drift car for decades and is perfect for novice drifters? Or was it just hype because of Toyota's use of the term 86 for marketing purposes?

If I remember correctly, Toyota and Subaru say that the main point of this car is to allow the driver to truly enjoy the excitement of driving without intervention from excessive weight or computers.

I don't remember anybody (Toyota/Subaru) saying it is a drift car. Even Chris Harris said it is not that easy, as say an M5 or M3. I on the contrary am glad, as I am more interested in grip than drift.

See this is what I am talking about. The media, not Toyota/Subaru said anything about it being a drift machine. The media overhype this car because it was something they haven't driven in a while since the 90's. And also I like how this guy addresses the issue of corners on the open road. I can see a lot of FRS/BRZ ending up in the junkyard for parts soon.

They don't come out and say it, but the front of their brochures show the car drifting. The three draft commercials that we saw at Scion HQ last weekend also show the car drifting.

Personally, I'm interested in staying planted on the road, so this is good news for me.

It's an interestingly written article, on the face of it seems quite negative but they're not really saying anything we didn't already know.

Toyota are not going to release a car in 2012 that goes sideways everywhere when Mr J. Average drives down to the shops.
If this is a shock to anyone then they've over-estimate the skill level of the general driving public by a large margin.

What the GT86 is (Judging by reviewers who I trust) is a well balanced, modestly powerful rear drive sports car that when provoked correctly will drift. That's also what the article says, but it doesn't really come across that way on first read.

I'm actually happy to read this article. I prefer grip driving so that's fine if it takes extra effort to get it sideways.

Every car commercial with any kind of sport car has drifting in it. You see it all the time. The gt86/brz/frs is no different. Why the hell complain about this now? Sounds like somebody is just looking for something to nit-pick.

Yep, I just saw an ad for the Caddy CTS-V Wagon where the entire add was talking about the fact that it had a G meter and the video of it was it drifting. I'm willing to bet the one used in the ad is the ONLY one that ever gets the least bit sideways on purpose.

When you watch the footage of journos driving the car around you can see they are able to break the rear end out a bit on a regular basis, and we are not always talking pro-level drivers with that crowd. But that action is not on the scale of drifting.

The AE86 was not a tail-happy chassis either. It took some skill and finesse to really drift it. That's one reason why it has such a reputation, not because just anyone could hop in and drive it slideways.

This. And hence why I have great respect for the men and women out there who drift the AE86; it ain't like getting in a Mustang and goin' at it sideways! It takes this thing called..... SKILL. :respekt:

Love the way this car has evolved.... Lets take you on a journey through time. Once upon a time...

2 Years ago......
"The FT-86 will be priced a little over $20k, making it a very affordable new sports car"

Present Day
(Defenders of FR-S/BRZ)

"Oh well how could you expect the car to cost $22k? Economies, markets, demand, blah blah blah. That's why its $26k!"
_____________________________

Up until 1 month ago....
"This car should be fairly quick, likely in the 6.0 second range 0-60, and 14.5-14.8 quarter mile".

Present Day
(Defenders of the FR-S/BRZ)

"Oh well the car runs from 0-60 in a weak 7.3 seconds because of a bizarre 2nd gear shift at 59.3 MPH. Also the 1/4 mile time is irrelevant, this isn't a drag car!"
___________________________

The last 2 years.....
"The FT-86/FR-S/BRZ should be the next best drift car to hit the market since the 90's."

The start of this thread...
Highly credible folks test drifting capabilities of the FR-S and determine that it's a weak sauce drift car.

(Defenders of the FR-S/BRZ)
"Oh well this was never meant to be a drift car, dur!"
__________________________

So here is what we have determined this car is NOT...

This car is not "affordable" as it was once meant to be.
This car is not fast, and not considered a "drag car" so being slow is OK.
This is not a drift car, so let it go.
The back seat can fit toddlers at best.
The trunk can probably fit your backpack AND your duffle bag!
The car gets worse MPG than a 505hp Z06 Corvette that weighs 600 pounds more.


I'm not bashing the FR-S / BRZ at all. This is simply my identification of what this car is NOT, though I am trying to figure out just what this car IS.

like I said they got nothing to hype this car except omg the handling is awesome like porche. 0-60 is terrible, track got beat by 370z easily.

dont be surprised some of these hypers are hired by the car company to do the hyping on the forums. Viral marketing is very effective these days.

This car IS a spiritual successor to the AE86 and a new platform for the market. It's a fantastic car to drift since it requires skill instead of just mashing the pedal and doing power overs. You have to understand the weight and balance of the car, you have to know the torque band. I can't wait to get mine. I miss the ever living shit out of my AE86. That car was amazing to drive. Not super fast, not super drift happy. It was fun. That's all that mattered. This new platform is about making the driver the focus.

Got your tinfoil hat on do ya? I want this car because I LOVED my AE86. This isn't about ZOMG HP for me. I have my WRX for that. This is about fun and getting into a new platform.

Is a Porsche Cayman a drift car? :thumbdown:

It is a modern sports car that offers better feel, utility and is lighter than the current Miata. It can hold a passenger, four spare tires, helmet and tools for a track day. Comes with a warranty. What else do you want?

Your last point is suspect: the current Z06 is rated at 15 MPG City/24 MPG Highway. The BRZ is currently listing 25 MPG City/34 MPG Highway. While you might be able to hit 30 MPG on the highway in an LS3 C6 (LS1's could), has anyone done that with an LS7? Color me skeptical. :bs:

Handjobs. The car isn't giving him any.

:lol:

Maybe you should read some of these

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2671

All I can say is this article is very disheartening... I mean, I was really looking forward to get my car to immediately ruin my tires sliding around curves on public roads screaming "POWER!" trying my best Jeremy Clarkson impression. Oh wait, no I wasn't buying this to drift! Silly me! :bonk:

There are only 2 kinds of people on this forum:
- those who like the car, and of course are hired by either Toyota/Subaru to promote it
- those who dislike the car, and of course they are hired by the competition
There are no regular users left on the Internet. :popcorn:

Or they work for Geely and are trying to figure out the best way to just copy things...

It's only Fanbois and Haters in here.

I beg to differ. There is also people who like the car but isn't necessarily a hater or fanboy. I love the idea and looks of this car but I am not a fan of the engine size choice when I think a FA25 would've been a perfect choice for me. I sit in the middle of the haters and fanboys. I really don't understand why someone would hate on the car overall.

shaX 07, you forgot turbo! How can you be objective and no has turbo? :bellyroll:

You's trolling!:dnftt:

I think you should also add that this car is NOT for you to the list. :D

The WRX promotional poster in the waiting room of the dealership also shows a WRX drifting. I've had mine for almost five years and I could count the times I've had the car doing anything like drifting on one hand. On dry pavement I don't know that it has ever happened.

I did. I read that the car handles really well, but that's about all it does.

Perfect? I don't know about that. Seems like placement would have been tough. Given the whole low and pushed back position they were shooting for the FA25 wouldn't have fit would it? Of course they could have organized it all totally differently but... well buy a WRX/STI then I guess.

I'm not sold on this car either. I want it to be fun but I certainly haven't driven it or even seen it in person. I won't have one for probably well over a year if ever. This article is a little silly to me though. I'd get arrested (not just ticketed) promptly if I were drifting all over the place.

Exactly

+1 Toyobaru said this car was fun for driving, and so is power sliding around corners, not really some crazy sideways action

Yep, the media actually says its fun for drifting.

Its like for example, the hair comb; its purpose is to comb my hair, but it can also be used to scratch my back or something lol

This car's purpose is to be fun to drive, it just happens to also get sideways easy but not too easy for much novices.

Uh huh...

Yes, and all the reviews also recommended anyone who could afford it should buy it. I think they did a pretty good job of explaining why as well, so if you didn't get it from them there's no use in trying to convince you.

:clap:

http://i.imgur.com/kvMpo.png

This car is affordable compared to similar sports cars out there. Honestly the economy wasn't the same in 07 when project was started nor in 09 when they made everything official.

Apparently all the reviewers are saying the faster you go is better, plus the temptation to get on the freeway faster than the next guy isn't really there. I mean, I wonder why so many people like the miata's, ITR's, 240's, etc and all those are < 200hp stock and if more - aftermarket (like this car is going to have)

Backseats are for insurance not humans lol

not sure why trunk matters if backseats fold down, and apparently you don't want them, so you can remove them completely lol

And sure okay MPG is average, but cars of this caliber i.e. - S2000, didn't really have good MPG's anyways. It could certainly be better. But if you want MPG you have other sport car options

my .02

Good day!

This car is not "affordable" as it was once meant to be.This car is 25k at least, and along with other people, I consider the car very affordable.

This car is not fast, and not considered a "drag car" so being slow is OK. Coming from a Toyota Corolla and a Scion xD, I consider this car "fast."

This is not a drift car, so let it go. Who says it's the car? Just because the driver has no skill regarding drifting, doesn't mean the car isn't a drift car? Why are they using it in drift competitions? How come Ken Gushi was able to drift it stock?

The back seat can fit toddlers at best. I have seen posts by people who are about 5'8-5'10 saying they fit alright despite smaller than usual legroom. They aren't toddlers.

The trunk can probably fit your backpack AND your duffle bag! Probably 2 of each. If not, that's why you put the rear seats down.

The car gets worse MPG than a 505hp Z06 Corvette that weighs 600 pounds more. I won't even argue this one.

How come in the beginning you started of with "we," yet in the end you stated your conclusion from your point of view solely...

Edit: sorry for the bold

I'm just going off of Autocar's comments. *shrug*

Haven't been on here for two years, so I can't speak to the earlier claims other than they don't seem to be any different than any other car you look at 2 or 3 years out. Price point is never reached, the car never performs exactly as the first goal, etc.

What I can tell you for me, the Car IS:

...Affordable. That's truly an individual decision. Some people think a ZR1 is affordable, or that anything over >$10K is not. It's subjective.

...Fast enough. I've driven it, maybe its only perception, but the car is satisfyingly fast for me. Again, a subjective point.

...a driver's car. Could I drift it? Probably. Will I? No. I can tell you from actually driving the car, even with TC on, I was able to push the rear end around enough to make it exciting and fun.

...a 2+2. Backseat is usable for 3 to 4 adults, for a short distance. No, I wouldn't want to ride in the back for hours, but I would for a short hop to the movies. Then again, I'm not 6'3" tall either. I saw four grown males in the car, they all survived. This is no different than any other 2+2.

...decent trunk space. Two people could travel in the car of a week, no issues. 3, probably a weekend. 4, you're not going to do that in this car anyway.

...MPG. Hit the numbers I was looking for, and since I'm OK with the WHP, its all good.

Add, looks. Love the way this car looks, again subjective. I also love the Camaro, the Caddy CTS series, and even the Kia Optima and the new VW Bug. Yes, I'm all over the place.

Again, YMMV and obviously yours does.

Hey guys. Trolls don't use logic and reason.

http://allch-chcar.com/saved/emma-watson-troll-face.gif

You have to use emotions and generalizations, trolls gloss over details.

Eg. (Not my opinion)

"This car is incredibly light weight and the HP is more than enough to make it faster than the average car. You will feel like a race car driver as you carve through the windiest of corners all the while keeping constant communication with the car's back end."

I doubt shax is as ignorant as he seems. He knows all the faults already and said the only advantage, which is handling. Now is the time to ask if serious.:D