Fully built motor with a supercharger.
 

So I'm looking to go FI here verrrrry shortly. My question is could a fully built supercharged motor make around 400 hp? I know Hks has their drift car which is making around 500 Hp I think but im not sure exactly what all has been done to it.
I'd like to think the 250-300 hp will be enough from just running e85 and super charging it but... but u always want more power! I was just curious what other people think.

400 hp supercharged monster... /drool

I know big numbers are relatively easy to hit with turbo setups. I just love the sound of that innovate kit.

Good idea?
Bad idea?
Possible?
Impossible?

@evasivemotorsports already did this

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39242

It's completely possible, although you might need to use a more off the shelf SC than what is currently offered for pump gas.

There is already a forum member putting down upper 300's with 85 using the vortech on the stock block.

No kidding? He have a build thread?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLP-HCcX9as&feature=share"]The 450 HP Crawford Performance Turbo BRZ - /TUNED - YouTube[/ame]

Enjoy

Dear Ruckus,

It's completely possible. Now show me the money.

Yours faithfully,
Unicorn

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34171

There's also someone else who recently hit 360whp with the Vortech on e85 as well, that dyno and more info is in the Vortech questions thread.

I think you could go for one of the two newer superchargers, change the blower (as one of them is up-gradable...so is the vortech now that I remember) get some lower compression pistons and be on your way to 400 crank easy 400 whp with support mods to make sure your baby LIVES

Competely irrelevant to the thread. All that video shows is how bad Crawford is at tuning and that they have blown a motor up already. It is definitely possible to hit 400 whp with a supercharger and E85, and I don't think you need a built motor to do it either.

Plus that Crawford motor isn't supercharged. ;)

:lol:

if you're going to put all that money into building the engine, you probably wouldn't want to leave all that power on the table using an sc vs. an appropriately sized turbo. the kits available don't use a big enough blower to exploit it.

While I said you could get there with a supercharger. The Innovate kit with the blower it comes with is not one of those that will be able to do it.

don't think it will be able to hold up? I was curious about that also... seeing that it's the only twin screw for are car right now. I guess it makes sense. More moving parts means more places for catastrophic failure.

I'm excited to hear that people have made over 300 with the vortech kit. I've completely missed those threads. I did see the one with the hks blower a few months ago that someone linked here.

Not sure if you were only interested in Vortech or twin screw applications but KW will eventually offer a stage II which should place you within the numbers you're looking for.

Honestly if I were to do this, I wouldn't go with any of the current out of the box kits being offered. There's also the c38 rotrex (Kraftwerks says they have an upgrade path for this) which is a bigger unit than in the Jackson & KW kits. There's also an upgraded sprintex blower if you're looking for innovate route. And, there's the Vortech oil fed unit which is said to also have a higher redline.

There are Vortechs pushing 350-380whp on e85 (@charged86) but to my knowledge they are also all overspinning the blower which is likely to reduce its lifespan. If you're looking for reliably doing 400hp with a supercharger I'd go with an upgraded blower for this reason mainly. Also proper cams + higher redline (if possible) I would think would both greatly increase performance of a centrifugal.

I'd also love to see your build in action :). A S/C 400whp FRS would be killer. And I don't think its necessary to go turbo you just need a bigger blower.

I thought it ridiculous how Matt was also still getting driving problems with the car. Really? If a customer puts that much money into their car I would be pissed if I was getting driving problems like he was explaining.

It's more the size of the blower itself that is the limiting factor. It just can't breathe enough to support 400whp. I think the 300whp area will be close to the max you will see from the Innovate kit with the stock blower. Sprintex does make a larger blower that will bolt on to the manifold, but may or may not fit in the engine bay with the stock hood.

Thanks Ill do some more research!

Hopefully in the next month Ill be makeing some more purchases. ;)

If you want S/C for the sound your not going to find the whine one any non-root style blower. Pretty sure nobody has hit even 300whp with the innovate kit yet. (Probably wrong)

Why Crawford gets no love in this forum? :iono:

Because a turbo kit is not a supercharger?

Because I haven't seen a single member on here purchase the kit or show the dyno results or a build thread.

They aren't even selling their turbo kit yet either...
http://www.crawfordperformance.com/c...3-brzfrsgt-86/

And correct me if I'm wrong but most of their kit seems to be based on their low compression build/parts. A step most of us don't want to do until the stock block gives.

Looks like they have delivered 4 so far:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...020&type=1

In another post dated October 3, they said they're on the final leg of making 10 kits.

I think the full build is overpriced and the old videos showed what looked like a poorly tuned car. I think Crawford wasn't tuning it themselves. That being said, they also make some great stuff.

$$$

Only thing that got my attention from crawford was that they are selling a complete long block ( Built ) for about 7 grand which is think is not bad

Down there page they have another picture of the car. @APRil 28th.

"Crawford Street Edition FRS #001 leaving the building! — in Oceanside, CA."

comments section they posted:
"The tire size is 245 and 265, wheels are 8.5 and 9.5, zero engine mods, Crawford AOS, K&N air filter, lowering springs, front and rear sway bars, Crawford Gymkhana axle back exhaust, graphics package and serialized billet Crawford Edition badge."

followed by...
"Thanks Walter... time will tell how the rest of the world reacts to our Crawford spec cars"

The 360WHP was me. And I did this with a factory exhaust, factory header, factory cat, and a slight pulley upgrade. I am not even running the smallest pulley i can. I still have another step up before i hit the limitation of my self oil-fed supercahrger. Vortech does however have a "race kit" that uses external oil supply that can spin at a 20-25% RPM.

^ This. Go with Vortech or KW. Both of these kits have "upgrades" that are direct bolt on to large blowers. The vortech is an oil fed unit that can rev higher. The KW is a larger rotrex unit that has a fairly high flow rate.

^this again. There are at least 2 vendors that tried to make power but were unable to produce more power after a certain point. The twin screw efficiency range is not like a turbo or the centrif superchargers. It just falls off at a certain point and over-reving will only get you so much. Which is quite unfortunate because damn... those inovate are a lot of fun! But even with their fun they have their own issues.

I am not over spinning my blower. IIRC i am spinning at roughly 40-42k and the bearing setup is rated for 50k.

If i were to put a full exhaust, high flow cat, and a proper header to rid of that wonderful cat up front and put on a 3.00" pulley with a stock redline... I am fairly certain I would be in the 400's. However keep in mind this is on E85, not pump gas.

You haven't seen my thread as I have kept quite while testing things. I had fair number of issues while testing my setup and making changes over the months. However all the manufactures I have worked with have all made changes and resolved the issues. I am switching back to pump gas for further testing here soon and once I am finished and finish with all of my dynos comparing boost levels, fuel types etc I will be posting my experiences & dynos with my car and other FI setups I have driven.

@nelsmar A header and a nice exhaust should really open it up for you.

Nelsmar, how quiet is your cabin with your set up? I'm interesting with a good system with pump gas and seeing that you're stock...I more into quiet cabin and enjoying music and exhaust tone... same as stock or much louder?

They stated in the video that "they" flash a new map to the car almost every day and had flashed it "over 300 times" if my memory serves me.

Header is on the list. Exhaust will stay nice and quiet. I have permanent hearing damage from extremes exhaust setups in my youth :(. I plan on a greddy sp elite just for the visual styling. Maybe it will make slight rumble with a nice header. I'll need to retune once I slap on a header. Currently I am planning on a JDL header here soon. Just need to catch up after spending money on axles and clutch :)
My car sounds dead stock except for a minor wine / intake sound. Basically it sounds like I have an intake in decibel levels. I had a test pipe on for a few days that actually wasn't terribly loud. The flow increase from the blower has apparently changed the exhaust velocity enough that it reduced the audible level but as of current I am back to stock. I get comments quite frequently by how surprised people are by how quickly car is since it is so horribly quiet. It just sounds like a vacuum leak (from my by pass valve) at over 4k if I am not on the throttle. :)
My build thread has not been pushed up yet. I am waiting until I fix a few things before throwing up an in depth thread. I plan on a thread likely next month. But if anyone has any questions please feel free to pm or post in one of the threads on the topic and I will gladly chime in.

And yes it's possible to have a dead silent "quick & fun" car. :)

Any thread or word on anyone using a vortec sc with V-3 SC running 12+ PSI?

I'm on 11.5psi and making more power than almost everyone over spinning their blower (I use 3.125" pulley. Some guys use 2.87 which over spins). I haven't seen anyone run the 3.00". I thought about trying it until my last dyno when we tapped 360. Changed my mind. Lol. Especially since I an on a header here soon.

Whats stopping you from running over 11.5?

I like my engines running. lol. I plan on a header to delete the front cat. So if I make more power from that I am above my comfort level already. 360HP on stock internals with how I drive and the mileage I put on my car... I don't expect it to last forever but I would like it to last a good year or two if possible :). The fact locally we were having to pull timing on pump with the stock innovate kits etc makes me not too comfortable breaking into 400+whp with 12.5:1 CR and non forged internals. As a reference I have had my car for roughly 7 months and have ~24k miles on it ATM. Over half were FI. Also I originally wanted to make 300-325whp for my daily but "accidentally" made more. The car is quite fun as is and traction in first is slowly fading as my car has been gaining power.

His car is hilariously quiet. It takes off like a rocket and doesn't make a noise.

I believe Crawford's motor is tuned by Delicious (Bill).

I saw you post that in the other thread, but in that video referenced he made it sound like they tuned it themselves as he mentions that he has flashed it a ton of times and flashes it nearly every day with a new tune.