Car Advice: 'Toyota 86 to undercut VW Golf GTI'
 

From http://www.caradvice.com.au/167653/t...t-vw-golf-gti/

Took me a minute to realize you were talking about Aus prices. In the US the GTI starts at about $24k but can quickly rise above the price of an 86 with a few options. Similar horsepower but more torque thanks to the turbo. You're still driving a FWD econobox though. Probably a more usable rear seat and you can definitely carry more around in it.

As someone who owns a "hot hatch" I don't really see why these cars are being compared. A Golf GTI or WRX are definitely more practical, they're bigger, weight more, and are just modified economy cars. Don't get me wrong, I love my WRX but it is what it is. I love that I can carry large amounts of stuff and accelerates well. It is still just an Impreza with a turbo though.

I haven't driven the FRS/BRZ/86 yet but my hope is that it'll be sportier feeling and more driving focused. Maybe I'll be disappointed and I'll go elsewhere. I'm looking for a little sports car though and not another hatchback.

So that would make it around 41-42k drive away, which is about right for the lower spec.

Sounds like pretty disappointing news for those who were hoping to get one on the road for low to mid 30s.

Mmmmm interesting. A little on the high side but not a deal breaker. Maybe wait a few months to for discount.

Would be interesting to see when they start discounting. When the Golf GTI's came out and were is low supply, dealers were flogging them off at full retail whereas now 8-15% discount is the norm.

This is actually a few grand cheaper than I expected. ;)

What happened to the idea that Subaru was only bringing a fully-specced model???

More importantly, how is the 86 a competitor to the GTI? One is a geniune four(kinda 5) seat FWD turbo hatchback and the other is a 2(not really 4) seat RWD non-turbo sports car.

Different markets if you ask me.

Subaru's top spec (S) in Japan is actually mid spec for JDM 86 (GT).

Subaru has 3 spec while Toyota has 4. U need to option up the BRZ spec S to get 86 GT Limited spec.

Apparently our top spec 86 is similar to GT Limited so the top spec BRZ here might be below that if Subaru Aus follows Japan.

Probably the reason they're looking at the GTI is to hopefully open the market a bit. There isn't a huge number of people specifically looking for a sporty RWD coupe, so if they want to move a bit more volume they need to look at people who would look at cars in slightly different segments.

They're not going to convince a soccer mum to buy the 86, but for the young professions who'd otherwise buy a relatively cheap Euro... maybe the 86 is something they'd consider. The Golf probably aligns with the markets that Toyota thinks they could steal a few sales from, especially given the infamous waiting period that they've amassed.

Remember that the majority of new car buyers generally don't care that much for cars beyond how they look. They don't care too much for driveline or method of induction, as long as driving it will make them look good. In some cases technical terms (turbo, AWD, symmetry, etc) are used as marketing stimuli without the buyer fully knowing what they mean. A salesman can say "turbo will give you power" or "all wheel drive makes your car safer in x condition", but do they explain how? Rarely. You can bet that these are the features they point out to friends they want to impress that have a similar level of knowledge in cars.

Still, looking good. Whatever helps bring the price down is cool with me.

Usually when they talk car prices are manual low spec car only price, right?

Yeah they will always be talking the bare bones price before any onroads in press material.

Let's hope it's not like a Golf, where you're spending more like $50k drive away to get it with some decent options on it...

Interesting that this article says Subaru are going to focus on a light weight version not one full of features... Perhaps they couldn't get it to the price they wanted or decided they would get slaughtered if it if was higher priced than the Toyota?

Hi guys, word around the dealership at the moment is the 86 pricing should be released around the 20th of June, 2012 with the top spec at around $50k drive away and the standard spec around $40k drive away so that article doesn't seem too far off the mark.

Yea man I have a gut feeling that this may be accurate. If this turns out to be true, for 50k, I would rather buy a 1-2 year old 370z.

Could you please link to the spec sheets or tell me the differences between the top spec Subaru and Toyota?

HOLY! :eyebulge:

high spec is 10k more then low spec? I'd thought it would be at least 3 or 5k more not 10k. dayam! LOL!

you are aware i was referring to JDM spec for both 86 and BRZ?

JDM 86 spec (difference between RC to GT Limited in pic):
http://toyota.jp/86/001_p_001/spec/e...oto/index.html

JDM 86 full spec in Japanese:
http://toyota.jp/86/001_p_001/spec/e...ist/index.html

JDM BRZ full spec in Japanese:
http://www.subaru.jp/brz/brz/spec/

basically BRZ Spec S is very similar to the JDM 86 GT spec. You can add the leather/suede interior and aero pack on the BRZ Spec S to get 86 GT Limited spec.

my whole point is that when Subaru refers to "top spec" (ie. Spec S), it might be different to Toyota's "top spec" (ie. GT Limited). So if this is followed to our spec, then Subaru will bring in a spec between the 86 low and high spec and might be priced accordingly.

With you on that one.. lets just see how that pans out!

Is the $50k for top spec auto?

frankly $10k is too much for the extra features.

All this talk of pricing is really putting me of an 86. Especially the fact that Australia is getting slugged so much more.

I've decided to go with a wrx (Maybe gti golf if I can get over FWD), Im going to wait for the pricing to be announced before I buy. If the 86 is not starting at 35 then wrx it is for me.

40k is still to much, seeing as the 200sx came out cheaper than a 86. 50k for top of the range? really?:bonk:

Think about it, 45-50k for a BRZ or 40k for a WRX? I know which one id rather be in at the set of lights. My suspicion is Subaru knows there is an error here and hence why 200 are being realised to justify the "exclusiveness" (Only for the Australian Market of course)

IMO the enthusiasts will be buying this car, someone with 40k in there pocket and wants a sports car will stay clear of the 86 for obvious reasons (hopefully I'm wrong as I want the car to be a success)

or?

http://www.caradvice.com.au/167003/n...ke-a-comeback/

Nissan will fill the gap better than Toyota and Subaru attempted to do. It really not that hard RWD, lightweight, 4 cylinders, turbo and will easily squeeze in under 35k

not sure if you meant 40k as base or drive away.
Just checked the price for WRX in Sydney on the net, its $44,144 RDP. Not sure how much you could neg with the dealer to get it to 40k. but that's the internet may not be correct or up to date with the pricing.

Quite frankly, this is too much for the high spec. If it does indeed turn out to cost $50k, I simply won't be able to afford it. =(

w0w 50k for top model screw that shit!!!

I wont pay more then 45k drive away for top spec!

Sorry should have mentioned 40k drive away for the base.

I got quoted 42 drive away for the wrx - That was for base model, no leather, sunroof or sat nav. or 46 for the premium

well 46k for prem wrx i wont pay more then 41k for the top spec 86.

Guys this is still a guess, a better one but a guess none the less. There are a few holes in the story ;)

IF you know something we don't I think you should share :D

x 2!!

the wait is killing!!

x3

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...43358843_n.jpg

i really think they are just playing game with Subaru.

spread rumour of highish price then when Subaru announces the price, they undercut them substaintially.

or so i wish lol

That would be lovely.

Also asked them that on twitter but no answer :'(

Dimik - i know which I'd rather be in at a set of lights too, and it isn't a WRX. Each to their own.
While I agree that $50k is too much for a high spec, it isn't "unreasonable" to ask it when MX5 is over $50k for a top spec....
Apparently a WRX Premium is just over $48k drive away.... Interesting. That has navi and sunroof, but from what I can tell it doesn't have push button start or HIDs. In all honesty, the 86 top spec shouldn't be as expensive as a WRX top spec, but it's a more niche market than the WRX.
The regular WRX is just over $44k.
I would still prefer the 86 to the wrx though. STI would be sick, but they start at $65k or $71k for the spec R

All WRX has factory HID, premium or not.

Definitely no push button start tho.

MX5 is way overpriced and top spec has power roof, Recaro seats and BBS wheels tho.

We need to stop comparing this car to a mx5, whose closest rival is a z4 in terms of class due to no roadsters here

Cool, I was just going by what the subaru website said. No mention of HID's on standard WRX :)

Definitely no push button start tho.
Yeah it does. I know all the specs of the MX5. But at the same time it doesn't have push button start or Navi either. Even the hard top wihtout BBS or recaros is over $50k.... And the "basic" softop, non leather manual is $48k
MX5 may be overpriced, but it is the only *similar* car from Japan. Small, light, rwd sports coupe. yes it's a convertible and yes it is a two seater, but it has the same basic principles behind it.
I am not marketing either car, but toyota will be targeting MX5 customers.

I don't think we do. As said above, yes MX5 is a 2 seat convertible, but it is the only similar car available. People looking at MX5's will now be looking at the 86, particularly if pricing is reasonable. That is a fact.
And likewise, alot of the older people considering 86 will already be looking at mx5. "Oh it is like an mx5 but more practical and more powerful"
You and I being enthusiasts may not think they are comparable, but in alot of ways they really are.

The mx5 is MUCH more comparable than alot of the other cars it gets compared too...

This is not true..

There is the 1 Series coupe'

More powerful (125i), better appointed, better build quality alas more expensive and higher kerb weight.. obviously would not have the same log CG as the 86 but all BMW's are 50:50 weight distribution which makes for a well handling drive.

This is my next option if I'm not happy with the 86 costing

The 1series is sporty, but it's not a sports car. Performance driving wasn't why it was designed. But truth be told, i had forgotten about it :P
I do quite like the 1 coupes though. They are a cute little car. Build quality is debatable. Check out the warranty claims for bmw vs toyota ;) Higher specification, yes, but warranty = faults = poorer build quality. I haven't personally looked at this for the 1series, but in the past, euro cars have always been way less reliable than Japanese cars. Maybe BMW have rectified this with the newer models.
And as for the Z4 series one, that's not a new car. I was talking about like for like new cars.
There is no z4 coupe anymore.

** and a new lower model Z4 is $80k plus. Double the cost!!

I don't think many manufacturers can hang with BMW's shit when it comes to building a solid well balanced and handling platform... I would not be writing the 1 series off as a sports car, the handling they offer is quite exceptional.

Without a doubt there is niggly little shit that DOES indeed go wrong with these BMW's that NORMALLY wouldn't on a Jap car, but its one of those take the good and the bad situations as far as I'm concerned a Lexus & BMW are just NOT the same car, I wouldn't be confusing reliability and durability however & I don't doubt for a moment most cases of catastrophic failures is attributed to poor owner maintenance.

Anyhow... all that bullshit aside its a pretty long way out of the "anticipated ballpark" of the 86. :)