FI or Tune and Header?
 

Just joined but have been lurking for several months. My 14 BRZ 6MT will be here in a week or so. Going to get rid of the 911 and go back to my roots. Those include my first four cars being a 60' Austin Healey, 63' XKE, 65' 356 and a 69' 911. That should tell you I'm no spring chicken but I can still get in and out of a car like this.

I won't miss the $800 tires required to make it drive like a sports car or the ponies and top end. But I think I will miss the torque.

The reason I have held off is the overall torque and especially the infamous dip. This will not be a DD and my track days are in the past.

So my question is as the title. Can I make it pull out of a corner decent enough with just a tune and header or should I just skip that and go straight to the supercharger? I am not looking for 250+ HP, just some nice pull.

Edit: I posted this here because I know what the FI thread would suggest.

Have you driven the car yet? If you aren't tracking it or using it as a DD, it may just be spirited enough as is. It's a REALLY fun car even stock.

That being said, header, exhaust, tune will definitely make it more lively. Really depends on what you define as slow.

Test drive only but I've read everything there is. It may well be, had a lot of fun in that 356 at 2200 lbs and 96 CHP.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised the more you drive the car (especially once it's yours and you can push it a bit more).

I've owned cars with a lot more power, but this is still the most fun I've had driving...pure and simple driving.

dance around the dip

tune and header.. keep it NA

Get an innovate sc kit. I completely plan to down the road. Tame enough for both street and track. 250whp is the best of both worlds in this car.

I'm stuck in the same predicament... Not sure what I want. It's my DD, but I had nothing but mustangs before so I do miss the power. That being said, this car is a blast and only gets better the longer you have it.

Going FI will without a doubt be the most fun, but comes with much more work and fine tuning... Can't count how many times I've added the AVO Turbo kit to my shopping cart along with all the fuel and cooling goodies, only to puss out and obsess about it more...

I'm loving the car in the meantime... But man, it is a tough decision.

Yeah, I need to get it drive it I guess before I work myself into a frenzy. Can't do much with a car with 26 miles on it and a salesman riding shotgun.

I was thinking SC as torque is all I want. I have a car that will do 180 and no where within 200 miles where a sane person would dream of going that fast. But 20 miles away are the Blue Ridge mountains where fun can be had at 15 over the speed limit.

I'm leaning toward trying the openflash tablet and the base tune and after a couple thousand miles I'll know whether that and adding a header is good enough or not. Then if I decide to go SC there will probably be base maps for it by then.

I plan on keeping it NA. Considering doing the e85 kit an tune.

Those are some fine cars from your past! I think you'll find the BRZ has everything to make it a proper sports car.

You can get good gains while keeping it N/A -- With the right header + full exhaust + tune on 92 or 93 octane, you can get +20-25whp gain over stock with solid torque gains throughout the rev range AND eliminate the torque dip. That would put you very close to 200whp.

You can easily pass the 200whp mark on E85, if you have that available in your area.

Drive the car stock for a bit to get a feel for it, then you'll have an idea on how much more power you feel you need. You can always upgrade in stages with stock, stock + tune (+10-17whp), then maybe header + exhaust + tune. Maybe consider E85 or a flex-fuel setup.

You will know when you've reached that balance of power + handling for the kind of driving you do with your BRZ.

Enjoy it! It's a really fun car!

-- Bob

You can do full N/A upgrade like pulleys, tune, CF DS, intake, headers, full exhaust, drivetrain. If youre still not happy just bolt on a innovate SC and keep all those parts that you already have, this is my plan when i start making money :( this won't really work if you want a lot of power and need to upgrade with a turbo kit, but you can always try to sell all your bolt on mods.

One thing I've noticed about this car as opposed to other cars I've driven, is that while this car may not be as fast (stock), it feels just as fast because the car is so small, low to the ground, and has a very short front end. So if "feel" is what you're looking for, you may find yourself pleasantly surprised.

However, if you enjoy fast cars, by all means mod her to your hearts content. I plan on doing the same thing eventually.

If you're planning on going with a supercharger, why not go with the n/a upgrades first? As far as I know, superchargers don't require special headers like turbos do, and you'll get more gains out of the supercharger later on.

For me personally, all I have right now is a K&N Air Filter. I think I'm going to get the Open Flash Tablet sometime this winter. Next spring, I'll probably look into lightweight wheels + better rubber. I eventually plan on going hardcore with a fully built motor + turbo, sometime within the next 2-3 years.

On the other hand, there are people who have gone into FI before they even hit 1,000 miles on the car. To each his own. I'm sure you'll figure out what you want to do after you get the car and break it in.

Judging by your past cars, I think you might actually regret it if you go FI.
The best part about driving a car like this is that you actually have to 'work hard at it' to get the best out of the car. Heel-toeing corners just to keep to the power band, keeping best lines on the road to keep your momentum, lol.

Anyway, in N/A mode, the car is no slouch. Can get low 6's or even a flat 6 for 0-60mph/0-100km/hr with some work and a good launch.

Contemplate a full exhaust(EL headers,o-pipe/frontpipe,CBE) with a good cold air feed(HKS :P ) and K&N panel filter and a GOOD TUNE and you should be good to go.

I'm personally going to keep N/A as long as I can(hopefully there will more *more* N/A parts developed SOON). Nothing better than being able to beat on your car for a whole day at the track and not really worrying if the engine is going to CEL or grenade

Is your car new? If so break it in first, it picks up some pep in the first few thousand miles. In those few thousand miles learn the car and get comfortable with how it behaves. Then go ahead and get your car tuned - OpenFlash, EcuTek, BRZEdit, or the new ECUFlash software coming out soon. Won't provide massive gains but will make your car feel more responsive overall, and will be necessary down the road if you go further with the mods.

Regarding the 'torque dip', just learn to drive around it - I drive in two 'modes'. One is just driving around mode where I upshift around 3500, which drops revs revs right back into the nice lower torque 'bump'. Mode 2 is 'fun' mode, I don't upshift before 5500, which would drop your revs to right at the upper edge of the torque dip.

BTW I used to own a 1973 911 S, still hate myself for selling it! Once you get comfortable with tossing it around, the FR-S is likely quicker than your 1969 (unless it's hot rodded) and definitely faster around the bends (especially with good performance tires instead of the factory rubber). Enjoy!

I guess you need to ask yourself is if ~185WHP is enough with full bolt on going N/A.

There is no denying going forced induction is going to be some good power.

At any rate a tune is necessary for whichever route you go and so is a header if you go with a supercharger.

If you go turbo you won't need the header by no accident.

Thanks, I agree completely, that's why I bought it. Those were my first four cars, none bought new and unfortunately each sold to buy the next one. If I hadn't been a teenager and could have salted them away I'd be retired now.

As much as I enjoyed them I have gotten somewhat spoiled in later years by the power of my M3's, my current 911, my 3rd gen RX7 twin turbo etc. Although I did retro when the Miata's first came out. I keep trying to remind myself that the 69' 911T had 125 HP and a 0-60 time of 9.6. Dang, it sure seemed faster than that. That's what a small light car will do for you.

Thanks for the advice, all good.

See above for my 911T, I looked up the specs. Maybe it seemed so fast because I was coming from the 96 HP 356.

why not go the headers and a header back with a flex fuel kit to run e85. There's been some really good looking torque output with these setups. Almost as good as some supercharges running 10 psi.

You may be right but the list only went through 1970 to 77. Had a bit more muscle since then.

But as you can see from the above post on my 69 911, it is all weight and size and that is precisely why I bought the BRZ. During my lifetime almost every great sports car introduced grew in weight, size and horsepower until it became almost unrecognizable. That is true of my current 911 and also of my E36 M3 compared to my E46 M3. In my view they were not improvements.

We get 93 and I've always had premium fuel cars. I can't honestly say there is E85 around but there very well may be. I'll start looking.

i'd go fi. no need to piss around, just get it done. leaves more power on the table for when you inevitably get bored with it as is.

Drive it & enjoy it for at least 5-10k miles and then maybe make a choice? That'll give you plenty of time to get used to the car and figure out what you want out of it.

An innovate supercharger should fix all your torque needs, and at ~$3500 is a pretty good bargain. Only downside is I've heard lots of probs with people in high heat and/or 91 octane, because it doesn't have an intercooler.

Or you could do header + tune + drop in filter for ~$1500 and have a moderate boost in torque & power. This will also go well with the S/C.

Either way, this car is lots of fun and I'm sure you'll have a blast.

honestly, if i'm driving spiritedly i'm usually well above the dip in rpm's so the car has plenty to pull itself out of a corner.

you can always go header, and then ad FI down the line. there are a few good v-band headers on the market that make that possible. since you've driven cars with similar platforms i really don't suggest FI be your route to go, its plenty fun with suspension and a tune.

if you're local i'd be more then happy to meet up and show you what i'm on about.

I'm in NW South Carolina. Best i can tell i'm 10 hours from any of the vendors posting on this site.

well if you're ever in NJ shoot me a pm. i might be down that way come spring, but i'm not sure.

regardless if you're into driving this car with suspension and tires is a pure joy. can it use more power, sure...so can any other car. i love mine as is, idc that i can lose to everything in a straight line, it has plenty of power to over take people when needed and on track/auto-x/exit-entrance ramps/anything but a straight road not much will keep up.

the speed this car carries through turns will blow your mind. its a joy.

but honestly, everyone is different, buy it and drive it as is and see what you want to change.

FWIW from my N/A and Tuned build I managed 35+ rwhp

Base "STOCK" 86: ~132 hp
My Modified 86: 168.1 hp
DELTA: ~36.1 hp

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STOCK CAR DETAILS:
Toyota 86 GTS(Black) - NON MODIFIED
FUEL USED: Unknown

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MY MODIFIED 86 DETAILS
FUEL USED: United P100

Intake
- HKS Cold Air Feed(with 3x ducting holes cut out in front bumper)
- TRD USA Intake

Exhaust
- HKS 4-2-1 Equal Length Headers(NO CAT), has O2 Sensor bung to fool computer there is a CAT
- MOTIV Concepts Overpipe
- MOTIVE Concepts Front Pipe(with HFC)
- HKS Spec-L Cat Back Exhaust

MISC Mods
- The DriveShaftShop Carbon Fibre Drive Shaft

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I believe S/C will net you an easy 70 hp at least. Happy atm with my setup, will have to see how I go against the S/C guys on track day in the middle of summer in two months time ;)

Don't forget your fuel is a much higher grade than we have access to. But great numbers :thumbup:

I'm going header, full exhaust, intake and tune for a few years. Going to see how the turbo owners engines hold up then make my decision. I want this car to last so if I do go turbo, I won't be running higher than 7-10 PSI on 93 oct. Stage 1 most likely. Just need that extra boost of power but nothing insane.

I've ordered the Rev Works UEL, Works ABM and have the OFT in hand. I'm going to see how that does.

Now I just need my car to come in. They say October so I guess 8 days at the most.

Nice! You will be thrilled once you drive it. Just go easy on it the first 1k regardless of what anyone says about break in. You'll see how fast the first 1000 goes by too. Early congrats on being a new owner.

To avoid the CEL on the Revworks header, you may be able to do it with a spacer. Tune is the other option. With an aftermarket front pipe, you could have a shop weld a new bung behind the secondary cat, extend the secondary O2 sensor wires further and plug it in there to avoid it as well.

My header will be arriving soon and I'm already Ecutek tuned which disables the secondary O2 sensor with most base maps you get from a tuner. I found this out by trying to get my inspection sticker I never got at the Toyota dealership and forgot to flash the ECU back to stock. Oops...