Legality of Flashing 4th Brake Light (F1 style)
 

There is a 4th brake light kit being sold on the forums that puts an LED into the fog reflector. Also, when the brake pedal is pressed, a temporary flashing occurs.

See below:

http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/Ja..._2056.mp4.html

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this and the implications of the Highway Traffic Act in Ontario.

The only thing I could find is about flashing red lights on the front, not rear.

What do you think?

I think whether it's legal or not it's obnoxious.

Agreed.

+1 lol

Question, has anyone been pulled over for using white LED after installing clear side markers?

I've seen many motorcycles and this ridculously stanced NSX with these brake lights and wondered if that was even legal.

I've heard of a couple people getting tickets for white LEDs on clear markers, but mostly since their car attracted extra attention for being loud and hellaflush...

i think as long as you're not using alternating flashing lights or lights of the colour of emergency vehicles (whatever those may be exactly.. i know blue is one, maybe green) then you should be okay.

if you install two of them you can take your car ice racing in Minden.. :)

Care to link said kit?

Did someone on here (in a different thread) say something like "If you think it might be illegal, it's illegal. If you don't think it's illegal, it's still illegal. If you're sure it's legal, it's probably still illegal"

I think that applies here. Do something noticeable to the functionality of your car, and you'll probably get pulled over for it.

Don't some higher end cars have flashing brake lights during panic stopping?

Probably not what you're looking for, but in BC the side makers can only be amber or white for the front:

http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bcl...eside/26_58_01

Search for "Side-marker lamps"

More cars in Europe have been adopting the flashing red light, maybe it's a requirement there now but definitely not a requirement here.

According to the Ontario Highway Traffic Act (and should be similar possibly with other provinces, and by the way, it's a good to peruse through if you're curious about whether you can do this or that)....

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sta...8_e.htm#s142s8

Signal for stop (8) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before stopping or suddenly decreasing the speed of the vehicle, if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by such stopping or decreasing of speed, shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to stop or decrease speed,
manually
(a) by means of the hand and arm extended downward beyond the left side of the vehicle; or
signalling device
(b) by means of a stop lamp or lamps on the rear of the vehicle which shall emit a red or amber light and which shall be actuated upon application of the service or foot brake and which may or may not be incorporated with one or more rear lamps. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (8).

So note the "stop lamp or lamps".... it's probably okay to use a third (actually a fourth) light, no different than the existing third lamp mounted behind the rear window.

The flashing red light, I'm with others.... probably a annoying to drivers behind you and get some unwanted attention by the cops.

I would tend to agree it is annoying...but hey guess what, you have to notice before it can annoy you, and getting noticed is the point of brake lights.

For years people have been installing modules to make their motorcycle's brake light flash to ensure people see them and don't hit them.

I have never seen any lighting regulations dictating that brake lights cannot flash. In fact I think we will probably start seeing this more and more from the manufacturers.

Exactly. The point is to catch your attention. If it's annoying you, it's got your attention.

Mine is set to quickly flash five times and then go solid the first time I hit the brakes. Hit the brakes again within 45 seconds and it'll just go solid with no flash. Seems to catch people's attention without annoying them to badly.

i have said f1 styled brake light and i agree with SkullWorks & Onefitz with the visibility thing. i use engine breaks a fair bit so i don't tend to use the breaks unless i HAVE to stop so it's not as bad as one might think.

I also have "dark tint" white led side markers that are hella bright. I've looked into the whole legality thing in ontario (specifically Markham) and have found nothing about them both. i've had both installed for @ least 5-6 months and have received no tickets directly for said items (i have been pulled over for other things tho... speeding 12 over.....) The only thing i saw was in regards to the colors you have on at any given time. like blue, red, green stuff like that.

i also have front switch backs installed aswell type 2 to be exact and haven't had any issue with them either... from a legal standpoint at least.

I wouldn't say that unless you've actually had that vetted by a lawyer and proven in court.

Also, why do you use engine braking? That's very bad for anyone following you because:

1- They have to physically see your car slowing down to brake which means you add time to their reaction time already.
2- Engines are made to make your car go not stop

Just use your brakes?

I had the chance a few years back to do Mosport in a friends 911 with an instructor an was give a proper scolding for down shifting and using the engine to slow down. As he put it "it's cheaper to replace brake pads that rebuilding a motor that was damaged doing what it wasn't meant to do" Ever since I'm hard on the brakes and use the motor only to accelerate.

So I'm going to assume both of you are putting the car in neutral every time you let off the gas and apply the brakes right? Because leaving it in gear is engine braking too.

Braking means my right foot goes on the brakes. My brakes squeeze the rotors and the result is in a loss of speed (RPM of the engine correspondingly drops) and when RPMs drop enough for the gear down speeds, I downshift whilst staying on the brakes.

This order means I use the brakes to slow down the car wheel speed and engine speed and not gearing to force the engine into high revs and slow down. This doesn't give anyone behind you an indication you are slowing down until you actually do.

Also, a constantly flashing light in the back is highly distracting for street driving. I don't like this.

You can still rev match your down shifts and use the engine to slow the car while just barely pressing the brake pedal to have the brake lights come on. If you do it right you're not causing anymore wear and tear on the car and you're saving your brakes.

Engine braking isn't some crazy thing that's going to completely ruin your car if you do it unless you do it really wrong.

I rev match but not all the time for normal driving as I don't need to be raring to go hot hot hot the moment I let off the brakes.

Brake lights are very important and I find it very irresponsible when a fellow manual transmission driver relies solely on engine braking to slow down and gives less chance for the guy behind to realize what is going on.

To install a flashing red in the back in lieu of using one's brakes? Come on.

I didn't say that you should never use engine braking but keep the racing stuff to the racing areas. Drive your car as it was meant to on the street and do the track stuff on the track.

EDIT: The opposite is also true, people who ride the brakes for no reason are also being irresponsible as now no one can truly tell if you are going to brake or just crying wolf.

EDM cars have flashing break lights installed standard because it has been proven to reduce accidents.

But hey, flashing lights scare the hell out of American's so the public was confused when Mercedes tried selling it here on their cars. (if it does not sell in America, they do not bother with it in Canada, exception, Yaris)

Link plz?

You do realize that like 90% of drivers will hit their brakes when they see brake lights, whether they need to or not? Hitting the brakes when you could simply coast (in or out of gear) and not put yourself in danger just causes more of a back up with the traffic behind you.

Watch how people behave in traffic, they're total lemmings. Give the car in front of you a tiny bit more space and stay off your brakes and you'll use less gas, less wear on brake parts and if everyone can manage to do this, traffic will move faster.

These flashing brake lights don't constantly flash, they're normally off, but when you put on your brakes they flash a few times then go solid.

I have found that brakes last much longer for me on manual transmission vehicles. Never needed any clutch work or engine related work caused by this. I will always downshift when gradually decelerating by force of habit. Rarely, I dropped down from 6th to 3rd accidently and engaged the clutch immediately upon realization. When driving aggressively on a deserted road I always drop to 2nd going into a turn then hit the hammer at the apex. Lots fun with the nannies switched off. Don't try this at home kiddies LOL.

Ok, finally I get to what on earth you guys are talking about.

First off, the flashing red light on the F1 cars is NOT the brake light - it has NOTHING to do with the brakes at all:

SOURCE: http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/ru...ulations/8706/

This is why I was so annoyed and confused by the OP's post of "flashing 4th brake light".

As for the Benz report on a flashing brake lights WHEN pressed full tilt (ie: an emergency slam of the brakes), that I wholeheartedly go for. I've been saying for years that I absolutely hate how I can't tell if someone is riding their brakes OR actually braking. In the case of a 100% slam on the brakes situation, flashing brake lights would be EXTREMELY USEFUL.

Now that this is all clear - NO ALWAYS flashing brake lights please.