Anyone experiencing 2nd gear problem?
 

I bought 14 BRZ (Canadian ver.) a week ago and has only 400km on it.

I know that gear should be move smoothly to one and the other. But when I push down from 1st to 2nd gear, I feel there is something stuck...

Does anyone has same issue as me?

yea it happens to me a couple of time on my 13 one but I think it's because I don't have the cluch in all the way pushed in or the RPM are to high and some safety thing prevents it from shifting in that gear.

Supposedly "they all do it". Still scares the willies out of me. 3rd gear does it on occasion, too. I've never owned a manual car before that had such a cantankerous gearbox, and most if not all had over 120,000 miles on them. The only exception was my RX-7 Turbo II with 200k on it; that had a sensitive 5th gear synchro.

Well, I tried to push the clutch all the way and it didn't work.
Also, I usually shift the gear high 2 to low 3....

Should I contact the dealer about this?

When I take my morning drive and I have backed out of my garage into the street and start up there will be a little hesitation going into second gear. After that it is fine. I've heard that changing out the transmission fluid can help but I don't feel the one time is worth the bother. I just shift it slowly the first time and the rest of the drive it's good.

First to second involves a big RPM gap, so I imagine that the gear shafts or whatever undergo similarly big transitions. Are you trying to shift very quickly? If so you might need to put more effort into the shift to get the synchros to do their thing rapidly. If you haven't already, I would try shifting slower. Try putting the clutch in > stick into neutral > gently hold the stick against the second gear gate and wait for engine RPMs to drop anyway. You may find that by the time engine RPMs drop down to where they should be for second that the stick will slot right into second with very little effort.

This transmission loves firmer shifts in 2nd and 3rd, don't be lazy and try to "feel" if it's going in gear correctly, one swift motion. It should get into 2nd gear firmly with a very audible clunk, it's how it works.

I had crunching going from 1st-2nd and 2nd-3rd. I changed my transmission fluid to a thinner Redline fluid and it helped but not enough. I changed it again to Motul and it helped a lot. Not completely gone but enough where I hardly notice it.

1st to 2nd on this car can be crunchy, but will improve as the car warms up. As others have said, it can be like this on the 2-3 shift occasionally as well. Do you plan on driving the car through winter? It gets worse as the outside temperature gets lower. If it is anything like my car, a different fluid will help.

When shifting from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd to 3rd, if you bring the RPMs up above 3000, the shift is much smoother.

This happens to lot of cars. There are few factors that can cause this. But mostly, cold weather and possibly the synchro.
During the cold weather, the tranny oil takes longer to heat up which makes it harder to change gears. And sometimes your synchro is not matching up with your rpm which can also cause it and you can "temporary" fix the problem with different tranny oil and synchro mesher. This is a mechanical problem, so you really cant fix it unless you change the synchro rings

Search.

Change fluid.

I just changed my transmission fluid last week (after 1300 miles), and let me tell you... there is a world of difference. It almost feels like I installed a short throw shifter with automatic gear finding. I slide the gears up to the next one, and it just slides right to where it's supposed to go with a nice "click" sound. Very smooth and very quick.

I didn't get to change the differential fluid yet, but I ordered some Motul Gear 300 yesterday and it should arrive before the weekend.

Should we be concerned about potential issues coming after our powertrain warranty? I dunno, having that on a brand new car is a little off-putting. I don't wanna make a stink about something normal but I also don't wanna be replacing a transmission after 60k.

^What they said.

2nd gear isn't that smooth for me, so I focus when shifting it, don't force it, and take it easy until the transmission fluid is warm.

I've read hundreds of posts in the Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) topic, and the resounding theme is the stock fluid sucks, especially when cold. Thus I plan to change mine to the below Red Line very soon.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-50204-Transmission-Transaxle/dp/B000CPCBEG"]Red Line (50204) MTL 70W-80 GL-4 Manual Transmission and Transaxle Lubricant - 1 Quart : Amazon.com : Automotive[/ame]



2nd gear synchro FIX- MT owners read this thread
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1129315

It does it for me only when it's super cold outside and it usually goes away once the car warms up. I thought they were normal to the twins.

This is normal. I found what works the best with this transmission, is not to simply ask the transmission if you can shift. No, you TELL it you are shifting it. Use some force. I find that when I use more force with the shifter it rarely crunches and grinds on me. Apparently she likes it rough.

All bets are off when it's cold. When the fluid is cold don't get forceful with it, just take whatever feedback it gives you until it's warm.

:thumbsup:

+1 Warm her up and toss her around.

This is always my thought when i see these threads. WEIGHT ROOM!

Aisin transmissions are famous for this. Uncle Scotty's "cocktail" from Nasioc is a good solution. Subaru's gear oil leaves a little to be desired.

Shawn



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

Nononononononono!!!!!!!!!
Scotty's cocktail has no business in this box, this is not a "Subaru" box. Please don't use his cocktail in your BRZ/FRS transmission, you will ruin it.

Redline MT-85 75W-85 GL4. Spend the $45 on it and $25 on new crush washers and never look back.

Correct. Lazy shifts are hard on synchros. Think of synchros as smooth faced pure soft metal oil bath clutches. As for any clutch, slippage is bad and causes wear.

The synchros will be bronze and the shift lever pressure squeezes the smooth faces together overcoming the lubricant and forcing the synchros to stick together matching rpm for the dogs that are to be engaged. For upshifts the back of the second gear synchro must brake the front of the first gear synchro down to second gear rotational speed. This is counterintuitive. It is important to realize that all the gears in the transmission rotate at the speed of the engaged gear so shifting up requires that the higher gear rotational speed of the next gear desired be slowed to allow smooth engagement. The 1/2 shift involves the largest speed change in an upshift. Conversely, going down the box the synchros must speed up the lower gear dog which is how double clutching and rev matching works. The toughest downshift in the box, and the hardest for the synchros, is the 2/1 shift hardly anybody does. In fact, this shift is so hard on the synchros you really should double clutch it every time. There's nothing you can do to help the synchros in an upshift except to pause briefly in neutral during the upshift. Whatever method you try the movement into gear must be firm and quick to minimize loading on the synchros.

One crucial thing though is to pause during the shifts. Just very, very briefly. A proper shift involves a deliberate move out of gear, a deliberate hesitation in neutral (which is when the double clutch is used if downshifting) and a firm and deliberate movement into gear. Slurring this process or "speed shifting" will destroy the synchros eventually.

If the gearbox is cold second gear may crunch on an upshift.

Remember no gears are moved during a shift, these are constant mesh gearboxes. The crunch is the dogs clashing because the synchronizers haven't matched rotational speeds exactly. Ironically, the lubricant that protects the gearbox bearings and gear teeth isn't very friendly to synchronizers.

It takes a few miles, maybe as much as 20,000 miles on some transmissions, before the synchronizers are properly bedded in. Shifting carefully and correctly especially when the gearbox oil is cold, so as to minimize the dog clashing, will eventually produce a smooth shifting transmission.


Incidentally, if you skip shift up the box you should make that pause in neutral a significant and noticeable time period. The wider the dog speeds you try to synchronize the more loading the synchro takes.

Wrong oil spec.

If you're going to point them in the direction of redline, at least give them the right weight:

http://www.redlineoil.com/application.aspx

Recommends MT-90, which matches the Subaru recommendation.

$25 for new crush washers? No way. I bought both at the dealership already, and they weren't that much.

Aisin transmissions are quite durable. Please give your reasons for suggesting uncle Scotty's cocktail will ruin it. That is a very good cocktail of very durable GL-4 and brass compatible lubricants. One could very likely run 10w-30 motor oil in the box and get away with it for some time. But, I am interested in why you think else wise.

Shawn



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

What fluid did you swap to?

I've been thinking about changing the transmission oil for a few days because it's getting colder here and the 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd issues are getting worse.

Can someone verify how much and what weight we actually need (or that will help). I'm not interested in using a super heavy weight when a slightly lighter weight would probably protect better when it's -15 degree outside.

If you're going to give advice please know WTF you're talking about.

PER THE SHOP MANUAL! 75W-90 GL5 in the rear Diff; 75W-85 GL3 in the Transmission

I could give a flying fuck what Redline recommends, MT-85 matches the spec (75W-85 GL4 (GL3 being depreciated standard)) and that's what I'm using.

As for AISIN boxes being super durable and tolerant of all different oils, tell that to S2000 owners.

Just playing devils advocate here, but if the tranny wants 75W-85 GL3, then both 75W-90 GL3 and 75W-85 GL4 aren't an exact match. Personally, I feel that matching the GL is more important than matching the viscosity, but that's just me.

GL3 is deprecated standard that GL4 supercedes/replaces, much like DOT3 and DOT4 except that DOT3 isn't deprecated. I've done the research.

I do. The owners manual, page 6-1 states


• “MG Gear Oil special II”

• Other gear oil that meets API GL-3 and

SAE 75W-90 specifications

And that is what redline based their recommendation on.

The shop manual, which you have quoted incorrectly, shows a chart on page RM-3, giving a range, with the following notation below:
(1) 75W-85, 75W-90

Which shows that both weights are acceptable.

So, the owners manual clearly states 75W-90, and the shop manual gives both weights as acceptable.

The S2000 tranny is an old Aisin unit. It is well known to use, with good success, GM synchromesh, Redline, and Honda MTF - all very very different fluids. Yes. Very tolerant.

So, you're going to use a Redline product and ignore their own recommendation for application? That doesn't make any sense to me.

So, I do know WTF I'm talking about, and you can take your flying ****, and stuff it, obstinate snit.

Shawn

P.S. - if you paid $25 for your crush washers, you're a moron.

Or your Subaru dealer hates you. If you talk to them the way you do here, I understand.

Shawn

So don't accuse me of not knowing what I'm on about. I chose MT-85 based on what I saw in the shop manual and the results have been excellent. I ignored the shop manual when I put the amsoil in (went with amsoil's recommendation, a 75W-90) and it was completely terrible. I saw absolutely no reason to consider redline's recommendation.

Point is you cannot accuse me of recommending a "bad" spec and then turn around and admit that the oil I'm using is specc'd. You want to use MT-90? Go for it, I'm stick I with my MT-85 and will contuine to recommend it. If you want to fight with someone go fight with people who are rec'ing 75W-80, a completely out of spec oil.

Of course you also think uncle Scotty's cocktail is good.

P.s. His cocktail only works because of the shockproof, run straight shockproof and you get the exact same results, no need to do any asinine mixing. Scotty is a daft old man at best. More likely a half crazed idiot.

In general, if you choose a product line, it's good to choose that lines recommendations first.

That being said, Amsoil and RedLines product line are very different. You can't rely on the weight to predict the behavior. Being absolutely honest, the Amsoil product that is likely to give the best behavior is their synchromesh product, but no one can know for sure how the synchros will do with that fluid.

And, my advice is based on the owners manual, not the shop manual. The shop manual won't help if you have a warranty claim. The page in the shop manual is a little ambiguous.

I have no "fight" here, but all the aftermarket fluid makers are recommending 75w-90, and the owners manual says it clearly. The people using 75w-80 are just risking some gear wear. Not a huge amount, but some.

As for Scotty's cocktail, shockproof relies on solid phase boundary lubricants. Straight shockproof will be a very different fluid than what he recommends, and because shockproof isn't really made for transmissions, running it pure might not be a good idea. Slipping a little in there is something completely different, but the modern oil manufacturers tend to like molybdenum and boron, rather than visible solid phase. Redline themselves recommend shockproof for racing applications only.

Back on full topic, though. Shift quality and gear wear and synchro longevity are all independant. It is very likely that the components will last the longest with a 75w-90 GL-4. Shift quality may be better with a thinner fluid like you have chosen, or the pentosin that's been tried, but in general thinner fluids don't save gearsets as long as thicker ones do. The expected lifespan of a well driven manual trans is 200,000 miles, so a 85 vs. 90 may not make that big of a difference. We'll see.

Shawn



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

I cant believe you sent all that from an iphone....

There's a reason it's a very used item. It works very well.

Shawn



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

I agree completely on the shift quality =/= protection, which is my primary issue with people running 75w-80. Even the amsoil came out as clean and clear as when I put it in despite the crunchy shifts it provided. So it obviously was protecting everything. With winter basically upon us and having tried a 75W-90 with poor results I decided that 85 was the way to go. I might give redlines 90 a try come summer since I believe in changing fluids often, tbh I didn't even look at what they recommended for the car, I look at the shop manual and looked at what redline offered. I'm very happy with the result and I don't feel I'm running something too thin.

Okay, im experiencing the same problems and im at 1400 miles. I swapped fluids to motul and it got a little better but not by much. Sometimes on a cold start it is NEARLY impossible to shift into 2nd and I have to go into 3rd from 1st. Should I have this checked or is this normal?

I'm using Pennzoil Synchromesh and that stuff is just short of a miracle. The specs are a bit off, if not shady, but I can shift the transmission like it's warmed up even at -20 celcius. Use it at your own risk, but it fixed everything I hated about the stock transmission feel.

Third car I've owned and used this product, nothing bad I can say about it.

2nd GEAR PROBLEM. If 2nd gear is stuck and doesn't go in, here is the solution. Remove the console to expose the shift rod and also to get access to the HORSE SHOE type located around the shift stick. This Horse shoe has 4 bolts and may come loose and the most critical setting which is for 2nd gear, wont go in at all, because is misaligned. this is how to adjust it: With the engine off put the car on 2nd gear(try and try till you find it). loose up the 4 bolts holding the horse shoe, move the horse shoe until the right angle metal in the middle of the shoe touches the stick. tight the 4 bolts and try to see if all gear goes in without a problem. If not keep on playing with the Horse Shoe till works fine. My gearbox works perfect now. Hope this helps