Harry's Lap Timer for Android: Now Available
 

Edit: apparently nobody here uses it :)

Really nobody?

I just used it this weekend.

Great app when mounted to the dash in a Nexus 7 or similar device. only gripe is that it's the Rookie version so you can't do the video overlays and you don't get the detailed lap analytics like you do on the iOS version.

I've seen lots of people use it. Harrys lap timer is a popular app for track guys but alas, it's not the only one and if you don't drink the Koolaid (iOS) you might be looking for something else.

Another really good one is Track Attack.
http://trackattackapp.com/

I'm partial to Track Attack because they also made it available for Windows Phone along with Android and iOS.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcSLRBrDOQ4"]Introducing Track Attack! iPhone + GPS Lap Timer + Video + Social. Get it Now on App Store! - YouTube[/ame]

How accurate do you guys think is is? Also, what are you using for mounting points and sensors?

I thought I had read that the Professional version of HLT is coming in the spring of 2014 ... If so, it will be a nice addition to the Android community.

It's just fine for funsies and youtubin' but if you want proper accuracy via GPS you're going to go buy an AIM SOLO DL.

I use my AIM Solo but I do like how the phone apps also overlay the data onto the video, which is highly desirable.

im using Qstarz and the price is very reasonable!

Qstarz pales in comparison to an AIM. It has the same functionality as Harry's with an external GPS, but at a far higher cost.

I've played around with the free version and paid version and I like it - saves a TON of time editing video to synch up data with the video since it will overlay the video with the data AND give you ability to select what you want to see.

Has anyone tried to run this simultaneously with the OBDII bluetooth apps? I am wondering if it is possible to gather all that data AND get video at the same time.

Don't need or expect it to be as good as an AIM system or an AMB transponder but I'm wondering how you guys find Harry's performs compared to those higher end systems and whether the HLT data is good enough to be reliable and actionable.

I'm tryong to find out how device placement, GPS reception and device sensors affect HLT's data quality. For example I got much better reception and accuracy with it on my iPhone 5 suction mounted to the windshield versus on my Nexus 7 mounted to (but not inside) the dash in front of the AC vents.

The GPS fixes were supposedly good enough from the Nexus 7 mounted on the dash that all the status indicators at the top of the HLT app flagged as green / good to run before I started my session. After the session though when I look at the 'lap list' section on the Nexus 7, most of my laps times in the lap list on the Nexus don't have the 'star' icons next to them and I can't see the split data or map overlays like I can for the laps I logged on the iPhone 5, even though I'm using the same circuit/POI data on both devices.

In fact only a few of my laps I timed on my Nexus 7 this past weekend were good enough quality for the app to 'allow' me to use the 'upload them to Hall of Fame' option which I hope doesn't mean that all the data is gargbage.

Had no reception issues when using the iPhone 5 suction mounted to the windshield though. I might try timing on both the Nexus 7 and iPhone 5 simultaneously next time around just for kicks even though I find that mounting stuff on my windshield or anywhere in my line of view is a bit annoying.

It might not be an absolutely perfect solution but I love the ease of use and for 15-20 bucks it's awesome, assuming that the data is somewhat accurate.

Will be great to get the Petrolhead and GP versions on Android too.

Has anyone here tried playing with different munting locations or external attachments like GPS antennas and GoPros?

I know that you can run Torque and HLT at the same time with Torque pulling live OBD2 data while HLT runs but I haven't gotten OBD2 data working in HLT yet, or through both Torque and HLT at the same time, although the official HLT web page says that the app does have OBD2 support in there.

I'd give it a +- 0.75 second window (although it can be +-1), from my observations, comparing it to a Racepak and AIM unit, as well as AMB and Westhold timers.

interesting. I supoose it's good enough as a basic ballpark lap timer then, but probably not accurate enough to tell you whether X clicks on the suspension or Y adjustments to tire pressures gained you a few tenths or not.
:)

I just picked up a Dual XGPS160 bluetooth GPS receiver to enhance the accuracy a bit. Will report back later on.

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=151198332735

i'll try logging side by side with both the iPhone 5. running HLT Grand Prix and the Nexus 7 running HLT Rookie to see the differences as well.

Next step after that will be to try and hook up a GoPro Hero 3 Black editon and see if i can use that for overlays.

It's better with external GPS, but I don't have enough experience to say how much better. Theoretically it should be +- 0.2s with it.

Question : is Harrys lap timer for android as good as for ios.

Does Harrys lap timer for android allow video recording and overlay of data on the phone at the same time?

Thanks

Yes, the android version supports video recording and overlay of data. The overlay is a post processing function, but I believe that is the same as in iOS.

One caveat on the video/overlay function is that it can only handle a 2G file. So, if you record video for multiple laps in HD you may end up with a file greater than 2G. It's easy enough to reduce the file size before you run the overlay process, but I thought I'd point that out.

Oh, and if you are recording video your phone will get hotter than fuck and it's a very big battery drain so make sure you bring a charger with you.

I dont know if you guys know this or not, but the new sony has a built in gps overlay (and image stabilization)

D

sony? sony what

I tried Harry's Lap Timer when they first released the Android version but it didn't really impress me since I don't like the cell phone video quality (shaky and poor quality) ..I've been using RaceChrono and recently upgraded to the Pro version.. RaceChrono is free and with an external GPS (Qstarz BT-Q818XT) and RaceRender 3 it's pretty easy to make a video with telemetry .. External GPS is a lot better option who looks for a more accurate data sampling

This guy here:
http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/q...magejpg1-1.jpg

Any one have android phone instead iPhone that can connect Harry's lap timer with gopro? I've been searching but can't find any, it's sucks when they can't do it like iphone

I know you're referring to using HLT without an external timer, but your numbers seem high. I run it with an external GPS, and my experience has been extremely positive. My lap times according to HLT, are always within 1/100th of a second to the transponder SpeedVentures or Extreme Speed provides.

I always compare each lap time with the transponder printouts, and have found HLT to be surprisingly accurate. Would I prefer an AIM? Absolutely. But for the price of HLT and an external GPS, it does very well.

HLT without external GPS is a 1hz unit, which gives it a +- 1S range.

Although the lap times are often close, watch the "speedometer" and you'll realize how lacking 1hz really is.

That's the reason I purchased an external GPS. They're very cheap, and have proven to be pretty accurate for me. I only track once a month, so HLT with an external GPS does a tremendous job *for me*.

I know you guys sell the AIM, so it's easy to say "HLT just isn't accurate". I just can't justify $700 for something that may be 1/100th of a second more accurate. I realize you use it for much more than a timer. If I wanted to go deep into analyzing my laps, I'd certainly pay the $700. But, I'm at a point where I just go to the events to have fun. Nothing more. At some point, it's easy to lose the fun factor at the track. I have a feeling, that for the majority of drivers at these events, HLT is perfectly suitable and sufficient.

This is not the way GPS based lap timers work. They use the last position received before, and the first position behind start / finish and interpolate the time and position the line has been crossed using "interpolation". For cars crossing a typical start / finish at around 200 km/h, this interpolation introduces a very small error. This in turn means the receiver update rate has a pretty small influence on timing accuracy, while *position accuracy* has a strong effect. Or in other words: a 1 Hz device delivering 2 meter accuracy will generate a higher timing accuracy than a 5 Hz device at 10 meter position accuracy for most cases.

High update rates are good to get a better understanding of line driven, breaking points etc, and is better in catching speed peaks. The influence on timing accuracy is small but increases for low speed vehicles (e.g. karts).

In case Harry's LapTimer delivers accuracy below 0.05 seconds mostly, this is due to bad accuracy and can be improved by choosing a better mounting position for the smartphone. The most frequent problem is when the smartphone is placed in your cloth, a glove box, or on the co-driver's seat (or in his/her hands). So please always mount your smartphone on the center of your windscreen.

I do not want to post external links in my first post. In case you want further details, please ask.

This is a general limitation when watching GPS data in real time. GPS speed delivered is outdated when calculated in the sensor already. This is due to signal transmission times as well as processing time. This is typically around 1 second. In addition, a latency is introduced by the update rate (0.5 seconds in average for a 1 Hz device and e.g. 0.025 seconds for a 20 Hz GPS). Finally, low position accuracy will result in stronger smoothing of data (to receive noise), so additional latency is often a signal for bad accuracy too.

The latency in this real time scenario has no influence on recording accuracy! It is always performed on complete information somewhat in the past. You will see this when a lap timer starts a lap late and stops it late again.

I hope that helps,

Harry

AIMs (and any other dedicated data recording system) are not more accurate than a professional track app. Instead they suffer from hardware limitations (Google, Samsung, Apple can invest a lot more in hardware development than a small niche company can do) to provide sophisticated analytics and graphics. Smartphone apps can suffer from a consumer GPS, but can be improved using an external GPS. Today, this is mainly a question of taste and personal priorities. :-)

- Harry

@HarryS -
I'm glad you found this thread, and took the time to respond. I have always been impressed with your app. You have done a tremendous job with it.

I still highly recommend HLT to everyone I meet. Price wise, accuracy, video overlay, controlling my GoPro, etc... it's hard to beat.

Keep up the great work! We really do appreciate it.

...on a side note, I'm looking forward to your "OBD Wizard". I opened a thread on your forum, about logging our oil temps. It'll be nice to have the OBD Wizard, so we can take advantage of this.
http://www.gps-laptimer-forum.de/vie...hp?f=20&t=1364

Not using the Android version, but...iPhone + Harry's Laptimer for data and video mounted to windshield + Dual GPS (5Hz) + GoPro attached to the inside of the rear window pointing forward + DashWare to overlay HLT data and GoPro video. Have Kiwi WiFi for additional ODB2 data but rarely use it and only with DashCommand for diagnostics.

I purchased HLT over all of the other timing apps due to these posts exactly. Harry has TONS of support on his website for his app as well as super prompt and detailed responses when it comes to individual issues. Top notch customer support @HarryS

I feel the same way I think the mobile apps came a long way in terms of accuracy and interactivity with the third party video overlay softwares (Race Render, Dashware ..etc)

Only problem is that I need to collect the engine data via Torque App for datalogging purposes so any plan on adding engine data features via bluetooth OBD2 port?

LapTimer collects and merges data from GPS, acceleration, OBD and video. By the way and back to the above discussion, OBD helps a lot for instant speeds, latency is around 0.5 seconds only. Please note LapTimer is focussed on OBD data recording and supports racing relevant PIDs only. It is not a versatile OBD tool like Torque and all the others. Data collected and e.g. overlaid are RPM, speed, gear, throttle position, oil / coolant temperature, power / torque developed, boost (pressure).

Please do not use LapTimer's OBD data recording and Torque at the same time. This will drive the sensor crazy :-)

- Harry

I do it with two devices. Harry's on my cell phone with a suction mount to windshield, and torque on nexus 7 with a magnetic mount on dash.

I am only concerned with the oil/coolant temps and engine speed anyways :) I cannot use torque and other OBD data recording at the same time since my BT OBD2 adapter only allows me to use one device at a time (I use my NEX7 for data recording via OBD2 adapter)


I purchased the HLT like a year ago but haven't used it that often since I have been using my GoPro and RaceRender for telemetry but if it collects the above data I can start using it again :D
that's what I've been doing but I use my Nex7 with special mounts in the center console ;)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-J...-h399-no/3.jpg

I just looked at the data from my last time at the track and it had coolant temperature logged, but not oil temp.

Anything I should check to make sure it gets oil temps?

You can't get oil temps at the moment. Our cars don't use the standard oil temp PID. Harry is looking into an OBD wizard (distant future?), which will allow us to gather that info. See the link I posted above.

I've had students compare their 5hz HLT plots to the plot collected by an AIM or Racepak, and they're often shocked at the results.

Additionally, HLT unfortunately is often limited by the questionable quality of many GPS and OBD2 scanners out there.

Compared to a dedicated setup like the AIM, there is, unfortunately, no comparison. For instructional purposes, just standard PIDs are not enough, whereas with a car-specific data logger, I can use all of the OBD2 output to 1. show the student what they actually did (they can't deny the data), and 2. what the results were.

HLT is great for the price point, but keep in mind that if you add your own external GPS and OBD2 readers, you're already spending quite a bit of money. While the phone itself is a sunk cost, it's still an expense.

IMO, the single biggest strength of HLT is the built-in overlay feature, so that you can watch your own video n the fly.

If possible, please provide the recordings and the exact type of sensors and dedicated devices you quote. Please let me know how the sensors have been installed in addition (antenna placement etc). That would be pretty interesting to analyze as the GPS chip sets used by dedicated devices in the US$ 700 to US$ 1000 devices are usually not developed for the individual device but are one of the chips available in the market to all GPS mouse manufacturers. This is certainly different for RTK systems including ground based augmentation systems (GBAS)... But these systems are most probably beyond the scope of this discussion.

For OBD, the main difference will be whether standard OBD II PIDs are accessed or manufacturer specific codes are utilized (including CAN or other bus protocol level access). In case you think of custom channel / sensor connection, we are in the next category of pricing and effort for installation. I agree the value and quality range between a US$ 15 Chinese OBD dongle and a professional automotive data recording solution are big. But again, this is not the discussed price range.

Whenever new technologies appear and break existing business models, there is a believe it can't be as good as before. There are many samples for this. ;-)

- Harry

If HLT offered car-specific CANBUS logging as a DLC, I'd be first in line to purchase.

Typically, the GPS antennas I've seen are on the dashboard of the car, with a clear view of the sky through the windshield. The relatively location is identical (usually slightly better) than a windshield mounted AIM unit. However, it's not as good as an externally mounted GPS antenna like the one I used with my Racepak.

I do.