To Winterize or not to winterize....
 

Need some help from more experienced owners...I bought my car in July and plan on keeping it for a long time as a weekend driver once it's paid and I can afford a second car. It's getting to be the time where I either winterize it, or store it.
I'm willing to pay the $$ to get all the protection possible during the winter (undercoating, snow tires, etc.) but I want to hear from some owner's who kept it through the winter...Any issues? What tires did you use? Those kinds of things.

I'm also considering a beater for the winter months but I'd be pissed if I was paying monthly for a car that's sitting in storage while paying repair bills on a sh*tty car.

I'm so undecided as I see pros and cons to both. Help! :sigh:

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EDIT:
Post-winter Update
Figured I should resolve this thread with my experience...

WINTERIZE!

I'm really happy with the decision I made to keep it as my DD throughout the winter...I understand that some people won't want "their baby" to touch salt or snow - but I urge you to re-consider.

This car really thrives in the snow...You thought it was tail-happy in the rain? Try it with snow tires after a fresh powder drop and you won't be disappointed. I almost looked forward to a big dump of snow just so I could take it out for a guilt-free joyride (I say guilt free because far less wear on the tires when it's snowy) I honestly had troubles getting it to spin out with the traction control on, but with sport mode on it let me do my thing. Speaking off sport mode...

I never fully understood why there was a VSC/Traction Control but when you see it in action on some ice or snow...DAMN. I can whip the steering wheel around (which would result in a crash in my old Mazda3) but as soon as the tail gets loose, you hear the nannies kick in and it snaps you right back in line. Throw it the other way? Snaps you back. It was honestly an eye-opener for me as I've never seen these systems work so perfectly together.

In a 5+ month (still not over) winter here in Ontario, Canada - I got stuck once. So did the 4x4 pickup truck next door....If the snow is so deep I can't clear it with my hood...I'm expecting to get stuck. All other snow falls, I was powering through it. Passing F150s on the highway in a tiny RWD coupe is a pretty good feeling.

Yes my car did get absolutely raped with salt on certain weeks (my Raven could have passed for a Whiteout at times) but with weekly washes costing ~$5-6 it wasn't an issue. I neglected to get coated this year as I figured the factory rust proof should be good for at least 1 season. Will be getting it done next year though. Regardless, my car still looks mint when it's fully detailed so no harm done.

So like I said - no regrets here. Can't even imagine how unhappy I would have been buying a shitty beater (+ snow tires + repairs?) all while my new FRS sat in the garage and my bank account kept the monthly payments going. Paying for something I couldn't use just didn't sound right to me.

Hope this helps a few of you on the fence for next winter!
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Winter tires, assuming you live in a coldish area and you're good to go. Modern cars don't really need winterizing, as long as your fluids are healthy.

Maybe this will help give some perspective. Sorry, it's a little long winded.

I've been doing the "winter beater" for about 7 years and I just purchased my 2nd beater about a year ago for $1200.00 and I expect it to last at least three years, maybe more. I do expect to replace the AC compressor, and redo the valve cover gaskets, but I can do those myself, with a little help from friends.
They basically turned into my daily driver as I only have a 15 mile drive each way to work. This in turn, has fed my OCD about keeping my car clean and out of the elements as much as possible.
I think my age is trumping that this time around, as I'm now on my 4th new vehicle (FR-S) since this all began; while it's probably my favorite, I'm finding I just don't give a shit as much. The honeymoon is basically over after a year with this car. But, I still can't live without it being in the garage when there's crappy weather if I can avoid it.
I got to drive the FR-S all winter last year, at least once a week or so. That is, when all the snow melted, no salt puddles or salt dust were present. I think the longest it sat was about 10 days.

The first one was a 95 Corolla which I got rid of after 6 years (paid 1700). Picked it up with 80,000 miles and All I had to do was some exhaust work, brakes all around over a few years and a new set of tires. Not bad. It actually got rear ended and I got a check for $2600.00, kept the car, paid 400 to a body shop to pull the trunk out and mount the bumper again. Good as new! LOL. I sold it last year for $800.00
My latest, a 2002 Sonata V6 GLS, had 180,000 on the odo, but the entire front subframe and supporting suspension was just replaced under a recall right before I got it from a coworker for 1200. Almost drives like new, runs great, looks respectable.
That said, depending on your situation, if you want to go that route, it's not horrible if you know how to choose a car. Certainly there can be some surprises, and you'll have to plate and insure a 2nd car, but it's really all relative.
I like my toys clean and free of corrosion, and if I decide to keep it, all the better.
Some might consider that a little OCD. I used to lose sleep if I knew my toy was out in the elements...LOL I think I still might. My garage is being gutted and redone from some storm damage so my car will be outside for a week :/

The con here is an expenditure, and as you mentioned, you'll likely have some repair bills in that price range. But I guess, like I said, it's all relative.
What's more important to you is what you have to ask yourself. And, are you willing to shell out anywhere from 2500-5000 initially with insurance, plating, and routine maintenance to follow. Including the feared 'unknown' repairs.
You could spend that money on more mods for the toy and do the things you mention like undercoating, rust prevention, snow tires, etc.

The pros are that the car is going to stay cleaner longer and less exposure to road salt which means working on the car will mostly remain a pleasure for you, and your mechanic as long as you own it.

A lot of people will tell you this is a cheap sports car, etc and they DD it in any conditions.

But step back and look at it for yourself. Is this your dream car? Will you enjoy it more not having driven it through shit winter roads? For a lot of people their car involves their emotions. If that is the case for you I think it would make more sense to store and drive something you don't care about.

For me I borrow another car if is actually snowing or there is ice on the roads, not because I'm attached to my car but because it doesn't have snow tires and the other car does. The rest of the time I drive it daily. If I couldn't borrow a car I'd have bought snow tires.

I think a bigger factor isn't the purchase price but insuring and maintaining 2 cars.

I am in the same boat. New England winters can suck. I was going to get a very cheap old SUV for the snow months. Buy a nice all weather cover for the frs and make sure to mice proof it. I will take the SUV off the road for the remaining 5-6 months to save some money.

Indeed. But it doesn't cost much to insure the beater for liability only and there's a small discount for each additional car insured. If that's any consolation...LOL

EDIT: Plus, if you do store it, Insurance on the FR-S goes down to less than $12.00 a month.

I did the beater car thing for years.. I always had a nice car I kept pristine and a beater car
for those trips uptown, Walmart and those bad weather days..
What a pain in the ass.. I always had one car that needed gas or an oil change, registration, inspection.. SOMETHING !!
I created garage queens.. usually ended up driving the beater most of the time.. and leaving the clean fun car home..
My previous car was an 08 vette.. I sold the beater car and just drove the vette all the time..
rain or shine, walmart... whatever.. I finally realized its just a car made to be driven..
Why drive some POS .. so I can save the fun one for someone else? Suddenly made sense to me and I enjoyed that vette like most vette owners don't do !
Life is too short to drive a POS.. The money you save will more than pay for some car washes and wax.. The low cost of the FRS makes it easier to drive daily..

Almost there; it can be a pain in the ass.

Just plan brilliance. Sounds like the words of a wise man.

To me its more of a safety thing, my second car is a 2006 Cobolt LS with high mileage. It is constantly in need of some attention, but its paid off. I am not really worried about snow or salt getting on my FR-S, but I am more worried about driving a rear wheel drive, lightweight, manual car in 2 feet of snow, which can regularly happen during the winter months. Plus my FR-S is lowered 1". I am fairly certain the FR-S would not bode too well in more than 6 inches of snow. I have had my FR-S for a month, and we are heading into the fall here in Indiana. I am thinking of picking up some winter tires on craigslist.com and doing some snow driving with the FR-S as a "just to see" measure. From my research, it seems Bridgestone and Dunlop make good winter tires.

What is your profession if you have to drive in 2 feet of snow?

My job they can place weather mandates so technically I would have to, but realistically if that happens I leave early before there is significant accumulation.

Wise from doing it wrong for so many years !! better late than never..

I am sure NY gets slammed with snow worse than we do in the IN, but I live out in the country about 30 miles from the city where I work. I actually work as an industrial sales rep for wire and cable products. We supply products globally. Snow emergencies work on levels in Indiana. Level 1 is the lowest level while level 3 being the highest. Level 3 means only emergency personal can be on the roads and if you are caught on the roads you can be fined/ticketed. So, work for me is only cancelled if there is a Level 3. The state road crews do an okay job at keeping the city streets pretty clean, but the country roads definitely seem to get "less love" when it comes to plowing.

Get some decent snow tires, wax it before it snows, and clean it frequently if there's salt on the road.

This car was a blast to drive in snow! With some Blizzaks, I was able to conquer ~2-4 inches of snow easily. I'm in the "it's a cheap sports car, not a Ferrari" crowd. Don't deny yourself all the winter fun to be had. I haven't driven many cars, but I feel safer in this car compared to the Honda Pilot because i'm more confident in how the car handles and reacts (but you can't beat physics)

I would say just alternate between beater and FR-S. Drive the FR-S on light snow days or dry days. Drive the beater on heavy snow days or when there is constant snow and salt. You can minimize salt contact with weekly washing at a local car wash and you can still enjoy the occasional parking lot snow drifting.

First off thanks for everyones input! Huge help...

I love drifting so the snow drifting is a huge pro for me and I don't think I would insure 2 cars if I were to do the beater - I would probably take it off the road as I don't really want to pay car payments AND insurance on a car that sits in the garage.
I like the idea of a decent beater that will actually last a bit instead of a POS that will last 4 months although a good point is made about always having soooomething to do (oil change, etc. etc.)

I'm thinking the only way I'll go the beater route is if I find a really good deal for one that comes with snow tires so that I can afford to either keep the FR-S through the winter for the fun days or if it's cheaper than winterizing.

Anyone who's used snow tires have a recommended brand/tire? I've heard Blizzaks are good but I'm not sure of any of the others

I DD drive mine because it's a company car, but I would highly suggest the following if you really plan on keeping the car around for the long haul:

-Winter tires (a given)
-Undercoating, and not the traditional kind. If you're close to the Canadian border, drive up and go to a Krown location. If you're not, order some fluid film for the boxed sections (rocker, inside the cross member, etc.) and AMSOIL HDMP for everything else that gets hit with salt spray.

I've been undercoating my cars religiously, and have always had great results. Also, as a chassis engineer, let me assure you that anyone who tells you modern cars have enough undercoating to keep them rust free is completely, and utterly wrong. I won't go into the details..but let's just say you should consider aftermarket, oil based (the traditional tar and heavy undercoating you buy in stores hardens and seperates from the base metal, can trap moisture and actually cause rust- We see this in Canadian vehicles a lot) undercoating and good snow tires to be safe.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Aaaand now the windshield on the beater is going to need replacement before winter.
+1 for the beater!

I have never understood the argument of "get a winter beater!" The only thing that does is beat money out of your wallet, unless of course you have the money that doesn't bother you. For me, I am always a 1 car owner because the cons always outweigh the convenience and use of the beater.

- buying the beater
- paying insurance on 2 vehicles
-maintaining what is more than likely a high mileage car
-space for 2 vehicles
-dissatisfaction of driving an old run down car for the winter

OR

-buy winter tires and get several years of use out of them.

This thread helped for sure. There's some valid points here I didn't even think about
I was on the fence about storing the car for the winter. I have no indoor storage. Outside w/ car cover isn't an option I would be tortured thinking about the paint all winter. Insurance/car cost for the beater... I'd rather wash it once a week and still drive it around.
Winterize it is. A garage is a requirement when I look to find a new place now haha

I have been using a "winter beater" for several years now and I'd like to give my opinion on this argument. First off, you can buy top tier winter tires for a car and still have issues with it because of ground clearance. My Jeep eliminates this problem. My Jeep allowed me to get home one day during a blizzard where a foot of snow fell within about an hour. A low to the ground car would not have been able to get through that. Another major factor to consider when you get a winter beater is what else you will use it for. My Jeep is not only useful in the winter, it's great for carrying large packages, having more than 1 person in the vehicle, and for going on roads that I wouldn't dare take my FR-S. You also get a vehicle that you can use if the other one is in the shop, since my last vehicle was frequently in the shop and they didn't offer loaner cars it saved me from dealing with a rental car.

Yes, it does have some extra costs to it, but at the end of the day you get a second vehicle which you can use for a variety of things.

I drove my car all last Winter. I didn't do anything special to it though:
Blizzaks + 16" wheels + underbody washed frequently (maybe once a week or every other week).

I'm sure everyone purchased this car for one reason or another. For me, this is my only car. This is my daily driver that gets me to and from work with an 80mile commute. This is a car I want to ENJOY and not garage it for most of it's life.

There is nothing wrong at all with storing it to keep it perfect. But honestly, I would rather drive and enjoy the car as much as I can while I have it.

The car still looks brand new. The snow driving isn't bad at all with TC on and the blizzaks. And I got to enjoy a little low speed snow drifts here and there.
:burnrubber:
Just make sure you keep her washed of salt! The winter tires are all you need. (unless you don't mind driving a beater, and insuring more cars. Each way has it's benifits.. and for me, driving the FRS worked just fine)

Over a ten year span, a winter beater will not pay for itself in the overall sceme of things. A 10 year old frs winter driven or not, is not going to have 5, 000 between the two. It will cost more to run any winter beater. The other thing to consider is that winter sucks enough, why make it worse by driving an unreliable POS.

Buy the frs and amortize the thing to zero over 10 years. Enjoy in the meantime.

You will have more fun in the winter in the FRS than a beater. Period. Drive it you won't die with this car anyway.

Get good winter tires and oil/lube rust proof all the underbody fasteners.

Okay it seems like winterizing is the way to go...With some Blizzaks on the stock 17"s for me. I am really like everyone's suggestions as they are all valid and all good points.

I think the best way to "get a beater" is not to actually get a true beater and get a decent car for purpose B. Like the Jeep, any car that fits more people and perhaps AWD will be better for the not so perfect conditions that the FR-S may (or may not) struggle in. I don't think I Have the $$ for a car like that right now, as much as I think a perfect combo would be the FR-S and the EVO for winter mode :bow:

So how much should an underbody coating cost? I just switched dealers and am really impressed with the one I'm going to now, but don't want to pay more than I have to so what's reasonable? Any additional options I can look into to make it even more protected?
:thanks:

+1. My '07 FJ Cruiser was paid off long ago so won't be a financial burden when the FR-S is in storage with comprehensive insurance only costing $15/month. Plus the FJC with it's BFG A/T's is nearly unstoppable in everything from deep snow to sandy beaches to mud. It's carried everything from bikes to dogs to fertilizer and could tow if needed. Just hose it out and go.

Obviously costs more than a typical beater but can sometimes be found for <$15K and have another 20+ years of reliable Toyota life left in them. Look for a December '06 production or later M/T, the only ones with full-time 4X4, Torsen and FF e-locker standard.

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Tru...FJ%2520Cruiser

underbody coating costs? Anyone?

Any other helpful tips for winterizing?

I started a thread with the same dilemma a few weeks back. I also live in Southern Ontario and drive quite a bit but based on what I have learned so far I plan on "winterizing" and driving through winter. This car was made to be driven, other owners will have their own viewpoints but that's just mine. When I first got the car I avoided rain and anything that would get the car dirty but realized I was sad when I didn't drive it. I bought mine to drive it, which is what I plan on doing

i've heard of people disabling the window feature (window goes down a couple inches when you open door) because of the potential of the window freezing

Anyone with experience with this? Good idea or bad idea? I haven't really heard anything negative about it but I wanted to make sure before I go tampering with it
:thanks:

i keep hearing great things about the blizzaks

ws60 or ws70? i guess the 70 is just the new 60?

prob gonna run 16s too

Yeah 70 is what I keep hearing...That's most likely what I will go with on my stock 16s

When the snow melts...New 17 inch tires and rims :party0030:

my thoughts exactly!! :bellyroll:

I just made arrangements to drive my father's '02 Tundra for the "snow" months. I have a garage. As long as my wife tolerates the FR-S sitting idle in the garage while her car braves the elements it's a win. I doubt this will pan out exactly as I envision. But, either way the FR-S won't be subjected to salt/sand/ice brutality during snow periods.

I will still drive the FR-S, with OEM all seasons, when conditions are dry and clear during winter.

Post-winter Update
 

Figured I should resolve this thread with my experience...

WINTERIZE!

I'm really happy with the decision I made to keep it as my DD throughout the winter...I understand that some people won't want "their baby" to touch salt or snow - but I urge you to re-consider.

This car really thrives in the snow...You thought it was tail-happy in the rain? Try it with snow tires after a fresh powder drop and you won't be disappointed. I almost looked forward to a big dump of snow just so I could take it out for a guilt-free joyride (I say guilt free because far less wear on the tires when it's snowy) I honestly had troubles getting it to spin out with the traction control on, but with sport mode on it let me do my thing. Speaking off sport mode...

I never fully understood why there was a VSC/Traction Control but when you see it in action on some ice or snow...DAMN. I can whip the steering wheel around (which would result in a crash in my old Mazda3) but as soon as the tail gets loose, you hear the nannies kick in and it snaps you right back in line. Throw it the other way? Snaps you back. It was honestly an eye-opener for me as I've never seen these systems work so perfectly together.

In a 5+ month (still not over) winter here in Ontario, Canada - I got stuck once. So did the 4x4 pickup truck next door....If the snow is so deep I can't clear it with my hood...I'm expecting to get stuck. All other snow falls, I was powering through it. Passing F150s on the highway in a tiny RWD coupe is a pretty good feeling.

Yes my car did get absolutely raped with salt on certain weeks (my Raven could have passed for a Whiteout at times) but with weekly washes costing ~$5-6 it wasn't an issue. I neglected to get coated this year as I figured the factory rust proof should be good for at least 1 season. Will be getting it done next year though. Regardless, my car still looks mint when it's fully detailed so no harm done.

So like I said - no regrets here. Can't even imagine how unhappy I would have been buying a shitty beater (+ snow tires + repairs?) all while my new FRS sat in the garage and my bank account kept the monthly payments going. Paying for something I couldn't use just didn't sound right to me.

Hope this helps a few of you on the fence for next winter!

I took the leap of faith two winters ago. The only thing that sucks is the amount of rust on my exhaust. Oh well, now I will have an excuse to replace it with something better; although, just surface rust for now. Every other aspect, I wouldn't miss for the world.

Did you get underbody coating?


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I looked underneath yesterday, tr rear, and exhaust pipe immediately before the mufflers is corroded big time. I've noticed many many posts in this so I know it's not unusual. But, does this happen on other cars and other makes/models?


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I never have on any of the cars that I have owned.

Interesting responses, alternative question-

As somebody who already owns their winter beater (98 camry, family heirloom), would you guys still recommend keeping it and insuring it? The FRS/BRZ would be my DD during the calmer months and I would only drive the Camry during the winter (lets hope this year was an anomaly). I wouldn't be able to get very much out of it, and the utility option alone I think would pay for itself. Can I just insure the car during the winter or do I need to pay for both year round?