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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
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-   -   Dealership and pricing question (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47498)

Prog 09-24-2013 11:45 AM
Dealership and pricing question
 
So I am getting a bad vibe from my dealer right now and I need some advice.

I went there a couple weeks ago looking for a 2013 BRZ limited 6 MT. All they had on the lot was a couple of 2013 6ATs, which I knew from their online inventory page, but I wanted to see if they could get me the car I wanted.

The manager of the dealership said they were only getting 1 allocation for 2014s and they had to sell their 2013s first. I know there's only the AHA radio difference and the knee pad option on the 14s, so I didn't care too much about getting a 2013 if the other option was waiting an extra 3 or 4 months for the 2014.

So they find a 2013 BRZ for me at port and are getting it shipped here as we speak. It's actually probably pretty close right now. MSRP is $28.8k (has one of the option packages). I got them down to $27,730, which seems like a lot considering this is probably one of the last 2013s, but I live in the south and Subaru dealerships are not easy to come by (4 total, 3 of which are an hour away), whereas there are 3 Chevy dealerships alone in my city. I don't know if this heavily affects pricing or not, but a 2013 limited with no extra packages is showing as $27.3k on Edmunds, and considering the $500 option, that's exactly what I'm at.

Fast forward to today and I'm seeing five 2014 BRZs on their inventory page marked as "in transit," and they still have their two 2013s. This flies in the face of what the manager said - that they were getting one 2014 allocation and that they had to sell their 2013s first. I've called to get an explanation, but the manager was in a meeting. I plan on calling back soon.

What do you guys think?

Zaku 09-24-2013 11:51 AM
Buy the one that you got the good price on, like you said there's no need to get a 2014.

strat61caster 09-24-2013 12:01 PM
Ever heard the phrase the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing? Dealerships are usually full of morons who don't have any other skills. He was doing his best to get the 2013's out before the '14s arrived, the sooner the less money he loses. Nothing more. Try and get down to that 27.3k price point, I would say "I don't really want those options, I'd rather wait for the car I want and find a dealer willing to sell me a car".

Prog 09-24-2013 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaku (Post 1230843)
Buy the one that you got the good price on, like you said there's no need to get a 2014.
Not that I'll want to sell it any time soon, but wouldn't a higher model year car have higher resale?

Edit: I got to thinking about this, and maybe I'm both right and wrong. The 2014 would have a higher resale value, but I'd probably have to pay $400-500 more for it too, so it would probably even out.

Prog 09-24-2013 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 1230861)
Ever heard the phrase the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing? Dealerships are usually full of morons who don't have any other skills. He was doing his best to get the 2013's out before the '14s arrived, the sooner the less money he loses. Nothing more. Try and get down to that 27.3k price point, I would say "I don't really want those options, I'd rather wait for the car I want and find a dealer willing to sell me a car".
Yeah, if it were a salesman, I'd agree, but it was the manager of the dealership. And that doesn't excuse lying.

$27.3k was for a BRZ limited, no options. My price is $27,730, which is the $27.3k + the $500 option package.

Beyer Subaru 09-24-2013 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog (Post 1230834)
So I am getting a bad vibe from my dealer right now and I need some advice.

I went there a couple weeks ago looking for a 2013 BRZ limited 6 MT. All they had on the lot was a couple of 2013 6ATs, which I knew from their online inventory page, but I wanted to see if they could get me the car I wanted.

The manager of the dealership said they were only getting 1 allocation for 2014s and they had to sell their 2013s first. I know there's only the AHA radio difference and the knee pad option on the 14s, so I didn't care too much about getting a 2013 if the other option was waiting an extra 3 or 4 months for the 2014.

So they find a 2013 BRZ for me at port and are getting it shipped here as we speak. It's actually probably pretty close right now. MSRP is $28.8k (has one of the option packages). I got them down to $27,730, which seems like a lot considering this is probably one of the last 2013s, but I live in the south and Subaru dealerships are not easy to come by (4 total, 3 of which are an hour away), whereas there are 3 Chevy dealerships alone in my city. I don't know if this heavily affects pricing or not, but a 2013 limited with no extra packages is showing as $27.3k on Edmunds, and considering the $500 option, that's exactly what I'm at.

Fast forward to today and I'm seeing five 2014 BRZs on their inventory page marked as "in transit," and they still have their two 2013s. This flies in the face of what the manager said - that they were getting one 2014 allocation and that they had to sell their 2013s first. I've called to get an explanation, but the manager was in a meeting. I plan on calling back soon.

What do you guys think?
Shenannigans. Plain and simple. They are giving you the typical dealer BS that gives the rest of us a bad name.

You can shop and do research until you find the "right" car, dealer, price, etc..

The 2014's are en route regardless of if they sell their 2013's or not. They have no control over this. Subaru is gonna send em.

Since you have already worked with this dealer I would only continue to work with them if they are willing to get you what you want. Be it a 2013 or 2014. If they aren't willing to deal then you need to be willing to travel to get the deal that you want.

Use the wealth of info and people on this forum as a springboard if you need any advice or have any questions.

Kids Heart 09-24-2013 12:29 PM
I talked my 2013 down from 28.8 to 27.25 and free 3 year service. Just call and see if they can meet the price you want to pay. I wouldn't get the 2014 if all other things are equal unless it was only like a $500 difference.

King Tut 09-24-2013 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog (Post 1230834)
What do you guys think?
I think you are getting a great deal on that 2013, and you should take it. The package it has is most likely the Homelink mirror, chrome fender trim, and wheel locks package which does make the MSRP around $28,800. If you are getting $1000 off that, then take it. Don't always trust Edmunds pricing and remember there is always someone that got a better deal than you. Don't worry about that person.

mav1178 09-24-2013 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog (Post 1230834)
The manager of the dealership said they were only getting 1 allocation for 2014s and they had to sell their 2013s first.
Depends on how they're wording it... they could be getting only 1 allocated on the initial delivery, but a lot of other things are left unsaid.

If you only plan on buying in next 4 weeks, the dealer usually only tells you what you want to hear (what you can buy in the time period you're looking for). They won't volunteer any extra info as it is not anything that they can use to leverage a sale with.

FWIW, I always tell them a range, and I also tell the saleperson that I will be looking for the best price in the next few weeks. But more importantly: I never set foot in a dealer unless I'm willing to walk out with car keys in my hands, so I don't waste my time talking to people that feed me BS.

I would get the BRZ if they're offering a great deal and/or there's some dealer incentive they are offering, or if you are willing to wait a bit longer I'm sure @HeubergerMotors can get you a great deal on a '14 with zero hassles.

-alex

Prog 09-24-2013 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut (Post 1231112)
I think you are getting a great deal on that 2013, and you should take it. The package it has is most likely the Homelink mirror, chrome fender trim, and wheel locks package which does make the MSRP around $28,800. If you are getting $1000 off that, then take it. Don't always trust Edmunds pricing and remember there is always someone that got a better deal than you. Don't worry about that person.
Yeah, I'm getting home link, wheel locks, chrome fender trim, bumper appliqué, and I think that's it. It's a $500 package. I've talked to the manager and he backed up a little and played the old "well, what I meant was..." game on the 2014s (I remember exactly what he told me, "I can't sell the 2014s until I get rid of the 2013s"), and told me he's not selling those under MSRP. So at this point, I'm just gonna continue along with the deal.

Oh, and my car is at the mercy of port, and it's actually gonna take another week. :(


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2013GTRNate 09-24-2013 07:37 PM
I know that everyone says not to worry about the differences between the 2013/2014 but the moment that you drive the 2013 off the lot it will depreciate more than if it were a 2014. With that said if you want a new BRZ order from Clint at Heuberger Subaru. You will get it for a better price and you can get what you want.

This is too big of a purchase to not be completely happy with your transaction...

I know the BS that some of those dealerships can put us consumers through. That is why places like Heuberger are so awesome.

batboygotoj 09-25-2013 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013GTRNate (Post 1231841)
I know that everyone says not to worry about the differences between the 2013/2014 but the moment that you drive the 2013 off the lot it will depreciate more than if it were a 2014. With that said if you want a new BRZ order from Clint at Heuberger Subaru. You will get it for a better price and you can get what you want.

This is too big of a purchase to not be completely happy with your transaction...

I know the BS that some of those dealerships can put us consumers through. That is why places like Heuberger are so awesome.
I just recently made a deposit @ shortline subaru in colorado.

Galaxy Blue 2013
28,879 msrp
27,279 internet price
25,679 MY PRICE - so OTD for my would be about 29K.

Do you think this is a good deal? I'm kinda set on the GBS since they are going to discontinue it. But I just want other's feedback before I seal the deal. haha

2013GTRNate 09-25-2013 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batboygotoj (Post 1232418)
I just recently made a deposit @ shortline subaru in colorado.

Galaxy Blue 2013
28,879 msrp
27,279 internet price
25,679 MY PRICE - so OTD for my would be about 29K.

Do you think this is a good deal? I'm kinda set on the GBS since they are going to discontinue it. But I just want other's feedback before I seal the deal. haha
That sounds like a good deal to me. When you say OTD are including TTL fees? BTW, congrats on your new BRZ. I will be in SoCal in Nov maybe we can meet up at some of the local meets.

:happy0180:

-Nate

Kids Heart 09-25-2013 01:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013GTRNate (Post 1231841)
I know that everyone says not to worry about the differences between the 2013/2014 but the moment that you drive the 2013 off the lot it will depreciate more than if it were a 2014. With that said if you want a new BRZ order from Clint at Heuberger Subaru. You will get it for a better price and you can get what you want.

This is too big of a purchase to not be completely happy with your transaction...

I know the BS that some of those dealerships can put us consumers through. That is why places like Heuberger are so awesome.
Is he planing to sell anytime soon? Say he wants to sell in 5-6 years what would the value difference be with the same miles?

2013GTRNate 09-25-2013 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kids Heart (Post 1232427)
Is he planing to sell anytime soon? Say he wants to sell in 5-6 years what would the value difference be with the same miles?
Very true! Believe me when I say I love the BRZ in both 2013 and 2014 year models but the truth is that the newer year model will retain more value. The release of the 14' is so close and he expressed a desire to wait for the 2014 which will be in dealerships in a couple Months.

To answer you question I cannot predict the market with 100% accuracy but I believe that the newer year model will retain more value given the same condition and miles. Check out NADA or KBB if you need examples using other cars. Whether or not he plans to sell isn't my point, the point is that it is a CON of buying at the end of the year for a car. Again I love this car in either 13' or 14' but for me and my situation the 2014 was worth the wait. My #1 reason for waiting for the 2014 was the value factor. Assuming that you and I both purchased a BRZ on the same day yours is the 13' and mine the 14' and we checked there value with 100 miles on the odometer mine would be worth more money. That was my only point, it was something to think about.

:happy0180:

-Nate

batboygotoj 09-25-2013 02:03 AM
No I was just calculating taxes + d&h + shipping lol. But with Title & License prob 29.2k - 29.3k.

Yea I see your point, newer models always have better value just like with phones nowadays lol.

But since I'm getting a GBS which is being discontinue maybe it'll hold its value! haha or at least I hope it does.

2013GTRNate 09-25-2013 02:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batboygotoj (Post 1232491)
No I was just calculating taxes + d&h + shipping lol. But with Title & License prob 29.2k - 29.3k.

Yea I see your point, newer models always have better value just like with phones nowadays lol.

But since I'm getting a GBS which is being discontinue maybe it'll hold its value! haha or at least I hope it does.
I am happy that you are getting what you want.

You should definitely get the GBS or you will never forgive yourself.

Best wishes! :happy0180:

-Nate

boxer 2.5 09-25-2013 03:00 AM
Take the 2013 and enjoy it =)

womensecks 09-25-2013 03:22 AM
$27.7 isnt bad, but you're so close to 2014 models that if you are not in a rush, I would wait.

I'm getting my 2014 for less than you would snag that 2013! And yes, essentially a 2014 will have better resale in the end.

King Tut 09-25-2013 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batboygotoj (Post 1232418)
I just recently made a deposit @ shortline subaru in colorado.

Galaxy Blue 2013
28,879 msrp
27,279 internet price
25,679 MY PRICE - so OTD for my would be about 29K.

Do you think this is a good deal? I'm kinda set on the GBS since they are going to discontinue it. But I just want other's feedback before I seal the deal. haha
Let me guess, you are trading something in.

Prog 09-25-2013 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut (Post 1232825)
Let me guess, you are trading something in.
If he was trading something in, I think his OTD price would be lower, unless trade-ins aren't deducted from total cost of the new car for taxes in his state.

King Tut 09-25-2013 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog (Post 1232958)
If he was trading something in, I think his OTD price would be lower, unless trade-ins aren't deducted from total cost of the new car for taxes in his state.
That $3200 off MSRP has to be coming from somewhere. The dealership is not going to take a loss on a sale, and there isn't that kind of margin in these cars I thought. That is 11% off MSRP. Edmunds only shows a $1600 difference in price between MSRP and invoice. Am I missing something? My guess is they are making it up in the OTD part if there is no trade in which it sounds like there isn't now.

Prog 09-25-2013 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut (Post 1232975)
That $3200 off MSRP has to be coming from somewhere. The dealership is not going to take a loss on a sale, and there isn't that kind of margin in these cars I thought. That is 11% off MSRP. Edmunds only shows a $1600 difference in price between MSRP and invoice. Am I missing something? My guess is they are making it up in the OTD part if there is no trade in which it sounds like there isn't now.
Depending on the size of the dealer, couldn't they be getting a pretty good kickback from Subaru? Just a thought, but his price is indeed very good.

King Tut 09-25-2013 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog (Post 1232996)
Depending on the size of the dealer, couldn't they be getting a pretty good kickback from Subaru? Just a thought, but his price is indeed very good.
I checked their website and they claim to be largest Subaru dealer in Denver and they have 15 BRZs in their inventory so my guess is that they move quite a few cars, but probably not too many BRZs now that it is fall time.

Beyer Subaru 09-25-2013 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batboygotoj (Post 1232418)
I just recently made a deposit @ shortline subaru in colorado.

Galaxy Blue 2013
28,879 msrp
27,279 internet price
25,679 MY PRICE - so OTD for my would be about 29K.

Do you think this is a good deal? I'm kinda set on the GBS since they are going to discontinue it. But I just want other's feedback before I seal the deal. haha
Ummm, this makes no sense. Your MY PRICE is 500 under dead cost per the specs and MSRP/Invoice cost. I don't see how a dealer is taking a 500 loss on a car? But good on ya if they are!!

batboygotoj 09-25-2013 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru (Post 1233076)
Ummm, this makes no sense. Your MY PRICE is 500 under dead cost per the specs and MSRP/Invoice cost. I don't see how a dealer is taking a 500 loss on a car? But good on ya if they are!!
No trade in. Yea I got the same reaction when I told another dealer the price I'm getting. They were afraid I might get some add on/hidden features to make up for the lost.

But I'll find out once the Finance people call me to talk about numbers.

Beyer Subaru 09-25-2013 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batboygotoj (Post 1233630)
No trade in. Yea I got the same reaction when I told another dealer the price I'm getting. They were afraid I might get some add on/hidden features to make up for the lost.

But I'll find out once the Finance people call me to talk about numbers.
I would only go to the store if I had an email or something in writing that stated clearly the Sale Price, Taxes, Tags, Fees, etc.

Just make sure you're covered before you go to the actual dealer in person.

Please keep us abreast of what happens and if the dealer is full of BS or not.

dehydratedH2O 09-25-2013 04:47 PM
note that "invoice" isn't actually how much a dealer pays. generally there's another holdback that is 2-10% of the cost of the car. this is why a lot of dealers will let you order cars at invoice all day long. they're still making money on it and don't have to pay floorplan or anything else on it.

FWIW, the holdback on a BRZ Limited is right around $600, according to the paperwork I've seen.

batboygotoj 09-25-2013 04:53 PM
I was actually at the dealer when they gave me those #'s lol. Had a little road trip CA>Utah>Colorado.

I mean everything seemed fine to me. He broke down all the cost: my price + dealer & handling, taxes. My total is 28.5k not including shipping to CA. With shipping is roughly 29k. but when people tell me it's too good of a deal makes me wonder a bit. So hopefully they don't throw any curve ball.

Beyer Subaru 09-25-2013 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dehydratedH2O (Post 1233701)
note that "invoice" isn't actually how much a dealer pays. generally there's another holdback that is 2-10% of the cost of the car. this is why a lot of dealers will let you order cars at invoice all day long. they're still making money on it and don't have to pay floorplan or anything else on it.

FWIW, the holdback on a BRZ Limited is right around $600, according to the paperwork I've seen.
Nope. The holdback for this car is 1,100 or 4% of the MSRP less 770 D&D.

No Subaru ever exceeds 4% for the holdback.

dehydratedH2O 09-26-2013 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru (Post 1233769)
Nope. The holdback for this car is 1,100 or 4% of the MSRP less 770 D&D.

No Subaru ever exceeds 4% for the holdback.
Nice info! The sheet I saw must not have had the full amount listed for some reason. I don't know how Subaru works, but in my experience the domestic brands seem to have a much bigger holdback.

batboygotoj 09-26-2013 12:27 AM
So, just talked to the financial adviser today and all the figures seems to match up to what I was originally quoted - no hidden/extra charges. So I guess Shortline Subaru in Colorado is pretty good.

They gave me a better deal than Heuberger.

Pete156 09-26-2013 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru (Post 1233642)
I would only go to the store if I had an email or something in writing that stated clearly the Sale Price, Taxes, Tags, Fees, etc.

Just make sure you're covered before you go to the actual dealer in person.

Best advice ever!

Don't trust any dealers words, because they are worthless. Get their promises in writing.

batboygotoj 09-26-2013 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete156 (Post 1234591)
Best advice ever!

Don't trust any dealers words, because they are worthless. Get their promises in writing.
I was there. Lol I do have the breakdown in writing. It's just that when I hear people saying it's too good of a deal so it got me a little confused since it's my 1st time buying.

Raven23 09-26-2013 02:01 AM
Just wondering if anyone got quoted on a 2014 model yet? Were you able to negotiate under MSRP? If so, how much.

Kostamojen 09-26-2013 02:48 AM
Call Clint, get a quote. There is a reason why over 100 of us here on the forums have bought from him...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47498

Some leftover 2013's:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47188

Prog 09-26-2013 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven23 (Post 1234721)
Just wondering if anyone got quoted on a 2014 model yet? Were you able to negotiate under MSRP? If so, how much.
My dealer was unwilling to budge from MSRP on 2014s. You'd probably have better luck if you live in a place with a lot of Subaru dealerships (north of the Mason-Dixon line). :P

dehydratedH2O 09-26-2013 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven23 (Post 1234721)
Just wondering if anyone got quoted on a 2014 model yet? Were you able to negotiate under MSRP? If so, how much.
Clint will do a deal on a 14, I'd expect. I personally got a good deal on a 14 with the VIP program thru ASPCA.

HeubergerMotors 10-03-2013 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evostyle (Post 1247747)
:slap:

This is for a limited right?

If so who do I need to talk to for the same price? :)

$25679 is a great deal. How much for the other fees? What are the specs on the msrp? (Break down)
Again the only thing funny about this, is that I mentioned to you is $200.00 below TRIPLE net.
Meaning the BRZ limited gets from Subaru two hold backs of 550 and then another of 200 that is below the 27,979 the price should be an "all-in" at 25,979. To further that be careful that they don't add anything from under you like several of their customers have complained about to me without their knowledge then being forced to pay for added accessories, or flood damaged vehicles etc.

Also aside from that, when I shopped cars they personally wouldn't sell me a car because they determined I was too picky for a vehicle (STi), so I purchased from Heuberger because they actually listened to my concerns. Now I ended up working there :)

However, I have helped over 120 + members because I don't add anything. Don't do tricks.

Also to sweeten the deal for the remaining 2013's I'm giving dealer fee of $389 away to make room for my fourteens so that's technically $389 off the car when you look at it.

Best and hope to help another member have a great memory for their first car purchase.

HeubergerMotors 10-03-2013 09:40 AM
Either way, because of my $389.00 you can look at it two ways for fully loaded popular package 2c my price is 25,979 with both hold backs and floor plan for my customers. I just included $389.00 DH fee into that so you can look at my price which would be 25,590$ for a fully loaded 13' brz. But that's because I am now totally giving up the remaining BRZ 2013s so I can make room for limited. But even now I won't add any additional fees from under you. Again to help all my friends and potential friends on here Heuberger is the number 1 volume dealer actually in the world so we know how to treat customers and I certainly do:
http://m.dealerrater.com/e138395/


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