STX Coilover Advice
 

Just looking for discussion on what people have found to be the best setups in STX. If this should be in the suspension section please let me know and I'll delete and repost there.

I'm trying to decide between KW V3, Ground Control SA and RCE T2. So far what has the hot setup been?

Also with KWs and RCEs, what has everyone been using for camber plates?

Thanks for the input!

there are a number of STX related threads already... at least 5 on the first page of this section with recent activity...

you can start by reading them... they all have refrences to different coilover setups by different people.

I suppose that's fair. I've been looking through them, but I was hoping for more specific info if anyone has directly compared each setup.

I'll just poke through the threads and keep lurking then...

find posts by CGS mike, Racecomp Engeering or Moto-P

you're not gonna get too many people that have burned through 6-7 sets of coilovers on a single car to post any definitive observation. What you're asking for is a very expensive proposition.

Mostly all the fast twin cars in STX are on KW V3's even if they have changed spring rates if that says anything.

A lot of those guys bought their setups early on when the V3 was one of the few options available.

right on the button!

And then there are some of us that trophied at Nationals that are on the Feal Suspension 441's that are about half the cost of KW's

Well hi there....Bart? Erik here :).

I probably would have rocked the FEALs or Fortune Autos, but Ground Control offered a decent discount for me running their stickers, so I ended up getting those :).

Yup me.

Were you running the $1350 package from Feals? Or, did you have other suspension mods? I like the idea of paying so little for coilovers and camber plates, but that deal just seems way too good to be true. I am not slamming Feals, just being skeptical since a lot of what's in that price range isn't the best quality. Thanks for your input.
mark

Yea I have the Standard Feal 441 coilovers. I also have Whiteline Sway bars on the car too, 20mm up front 18mm in the rear. Lance who was also on the Feal 441's was running the stock sway bars for his 4th place finish in STX at Nationals.

KW V3 is the best bang-for-the-buck shock I know of. I've driven and owned many cars with MCS/Moton/Ohlins/AST and the KWs are about 90% as capable for 50% of the cost. Konis are generally similar but I don't know what Ground Control does for valving for this car. The KWs are very well-sorted - I think I made 4 shock changes all year, and really only to the rear bump and/or rebound.

If I wanted to spend $5-7k on shocks again, I'd be looking strongly at MCS, but you are REALLY hitting the point of diminishing returns fast. Not to mention that you a) still have to dial in the setup and b) drive in order to go fast. A lot of people forget about these things, so there's certainly no shortage of expensive, slow cars out there.

My car has the MCS singles. Very happy w/ them--just need to get the rest of the setup sorted--especially now that it's an SM car... lol

Alright I feel like more discussion is needed between the feal 441's vs the kW v3's

$1350 is a lot different than $2000

You are correct. It is enough to pay for a set of tires or wheels in some cases.

Bart right? I've heard your name before, I think you have a good amount of experience autocrossing right?. Have you had any experience driving KW's or any of the mid-level coilovers (either on the FRS or other cars)? If so how would you say the Feals compare? I understand a lot is driver talent, but if two of you guys can trophy on Feals then it seems like they're good enough.

I know Andrew said he loves the KW's but like you said, if I can save $$ to cover wheels or tires then it'd be worth it. Plus I don't think I'm at the level enough to use the full potential of the KW's. Is the $1350 include shipping?

My main concerns would be:
1) Reliability, I've never heard of Feal before but have they been around for a while? Will they last a while?
2) Rebuilds, if the coilovers need to rebuilt, is the customer service pretty good?
3) Adjustability, is just rebound enough? I was able to dial in my 350Z on koni yellows pretty well, but my more experienced friends say they mainly just adjust bound after setting rebound.

edit: Also noticed the Feals come with camber adjustable front top mounts whereas you'd have to buy adjustable top mounts for the V3's.

Ok here is the scoop.

I have been autocrossing for a while now (1st autocross event was 14 years ago) and wish I had started taking it more serious when I was younger. That said talent come into play more with setup more than how much money you dump into parts.

I have driven the BRZ on KW's in fact I drove Bill's car (aka ScoobySouth). KW's are great and they work well as long as you know what adjustments to make. On KW's though the ride height also changes the actual suspension stroke though too which is a downside to them. In most cases they also will require that you purchase tophats if you want to get a large amount of camber too.

The Feal 441's have been around for a couple of years. However Feal suspension has been around much longer. Odi at Feal is a Suspension Guru and has built some custom stuff for me in the past, his service is 2nd to none. I have only put about 5k mi on my set of 441's but Lance has put roughly 12k mi on his with out any issues.

As for setup shock adjustment the fact that they are in expensive single adjustables that come with front camber plates and rear top hats gives you plenty to start with. You have camber, ride height, rake and then rebound.

All I can really say is that Lance and I setup our car in a short period of time due to our experience in Autocross. We kept it on a light prep budget due to time constraints and not wanting to waste money chasing hundredths of a second.

I too now have a set of feal 441 coilovers now, I just had a track weekend this past weekend and my car felt absolutely flat, and very balanced (the car didnt heavily tend to either oversteer or understeer, and when it does, its probably my fault going in too hot or something like that).

I am very new to this and have only autocrossed a handful times and only two track days under my belt, do you have any idea how to setup the damper settings on our cars? I do understand this may be something you wanna keep secret or something, but if you could kindly give me some advice on how to set up these things I would gladly appreciate it :) after all, you and lance making it that far in nationals with these coilovers were part of the reason I got these (and that an amazingly good deal on a used set came up). Ive been putting it on 15 clicks front and rear for everything and kinda scared to adjust it lol :)

sorry for the ot, but i'm leaning heavily toward the feals for the value they present (also have real sti revalves on my fxt the last few years, odi was great to deal with)

given the results they clearly perform/outperform in track/autox relative to their price.

how about on dd use any regrets there?

Would also like some input on the feals ve say a KW or Koni/GC setup. They sound great from a value/autox standpoint, but what about for use on a daily driver or bad surfaces?

Just a few thoughts:

1. RCE T2 are a based on KW Clubsport and are a step more performance oriented than KW V3, but with a lifetime warranty vs no warranty for KW Clubsports (and much cheaper). Worthwhile to mention that for STX discussion. V3s are softer in spring rate and valving (early V3 may be different but that's the way it is now).
2. The popular camber plate options for KW and RCE are HVT and Vorshlag. Many options out there with more to come (Raceseng looks good for example).
3. You can get a lot of camber without camber plates with KWs or RCE coilovers, though you may still want them.
4. RCE T2 is a proven nationals winner in a Subaru! In STU at least. :)
5. I would take 2 way damping adjustablity over separate ride height and preload adjustment every time. That's not even necessarily an advantage to me for a few reasons.
6. The Feal price is darn good and they seem like a pretty good product for the money.

I have not tried the Feals but I have heard some good things. Definitely a step above the entry level coilovers. I have spent months and months on KWs and RCE T2 with Myles refining the damping and it's a very competitive package at a good price that also rides well on the street. Next year we should have some drivers building their car for STX with our T2s.

- Andy

Feal 441 : Daily Driving

I cant speak for the feal 441 in performance too much since I do not think Im at the level of being able to push em to the limit, BUT in terms of daily driving, these coils are extremely comfortable on the road, maybe it has something to do with the fact that they have some high quality swift springs or something(usually a $300 upgrade for coilovers at this price point) but I run 15 clicks front and back on the daily, and Ive never felt the need to tone it down, its on par with comfort with my previous eibach sportlines with stock struts, and barely more noticable in terms of stiffness compared to stock. u can feel it stiffer from stock, but not more uncomfortable.

Honestly we run the at the softer end of the spectrum near 5-6 clicks from full soft.

For daily use they are completely acceptable if not better than the stock suspension.

I am not knocking the KW's. I just simply prefer to have my ride height and preload seperate from my overall travel of the shocks. Most manufacturers do not allow have that option.

In Fact I think Ohlins has the only set of coilovers that do offer the same ability as the lower end coilovers of ride height without losing travel, and they look to be still only single adjustable.

http://www.racecompengineering.com/i...r-brz-frs.html

They sell for the low price of $3599 and some who offer them for sale do offer a Swift spring upgrade for and extra $300.



All in all the Feals are a damn good bargain at $1350 that come Swift springs, front camber plates, rear top hats and with very good customer support/service.

My opinion on dual height adjustability is that it is almost always a cost saving measure marketed as a "must have" feature. That's why you see it more often on low end coilovers and not JRZ, Moton, KW, etc. (with Ohlins and some of the high end Japanese stuff being the exception of good coilovers that do use it). And to be clear I'm not knocking Feals either, I would like to try them.

KW's (for example) are already shorter than stock...it's like a dual height adjustable coilover that's already spun down. But with KWs you also get some droop travel, which you can't get very much with a dual height adjustable coilover and no helper springs.

You can usually go lower with a dual height adjustable coilover though.

Anyway, for me personally it's just not a feature I look for in a coilover and I often see it as a "must have" when I don't think that is the case.

- Andy

I run V3's, and I'm happy with them. I too was one of the first adopters. I would have purchased RCE Tarmac 2's if they were available at the time.

5-6 on both ends? ive yet to try it out, thanks for the advise! any reason to why? just trying to understand my coilovers a bit more here.

I went KW here as I didn't really know anything about Feal at the time and my other consideration was Fortune Auto. I love the KW's and the adjustment is pretty consistent when making a setting change between runs.

As Bart said, He co-drove my car on KW V3's. Theres a couple of reasons I went with KW to begin with. First and foremost was the Lifetime Damper warranty. Anything happens to them or needs a re-valve, they are covered. 2nd reason is the V3's will allow a variety of spring rates. I am currently on Custom Rates over stock and there was enough adjustment in the shock (rebound/compression) that they will still be within the Sweet spot of the shock. 3rd... Rebound and Compression adjustable and the final reason is that KW fitted the Shocks to the 86 Test vehicle at the Ring and by far had the inside track on what worked and what didn't. Even if I had it to do over again I would have still chose the KW's . Best Bang for the Buck and lifetime warranty.... YES PLEASE... I did have to buy my own camber plates... and I now have 4 sets of springs.. for even more versitility. :)

Bill

I can tell you that if they didn't work, we wouldn't use them. :)

I sell a lot of brands of shocks, have used a lot of brands of shocks. Frankly I've found zero reason to go jumping off the deep end on the valving of the KW's (i.e. personally don't think ClubSports are needed, let alone revalving of those). We, being Andrew and didn't run anywhere near the limit of what the V3's gave us on range, and they have proven pretty adept at running higher rate springs where folks have decided to do that.

We've been running the cars in STX all year, and wherever it went, it was either the fastest STX car, or the fastest STX "twin" at the event. ANY event, from New Jersey to Spring Nationals, to Nationals itself. To me that's proven. Yes, we have played with spring rates a little, and I've pretty well paid the price for not being sneaky about what we are (or aren't) doing with the dampers and springs because folks have taken that information and run around to play the price game, which frankly sucks considering the time and effort we put into figuring things out *AND* proving it in the real world.

KW pricing is F***ed up. I can pretty much tell you I can be competitive with about anyone, but I have to advertise it for a certain amount. Some folks choose to ignore that, I don't and that results in lost sales. I gotta say there is nothing worse than doing the leg work to have others benefit.

If you are in the market for KW, please call me. The side benefit is you get to pick my brain about the setup stuff, and we've proven what we're doing pretty well.