OpenFlash Tuning Tech: Tales from the Dyno (Stock, Ecutek and OpenFlash tunes)
 

Greetings!
Everyone who has ordered an OpenFlash Tablet should have their units next week. They will all shipping out today via USPS :)

That said, I've kept the guys at Vishnu Tuning pretty busy this past several days in an effort to get the baseline maps ready for public release on Monday. Last night, Shiv@Vishnu met up with forum members RehabJeff86 and Phatpanda at FFTEC to test the final versions of the Stg 1 map. This map is intended for cars with both stock cats in place. So far, there are two version of the Stg 1 map, one for cars with stock airboxes (with stock or replacement panel filters) and one for cars with Air Raid intakes. Their Stg 2 map is already done and was tested earlier this week on a Dynojet where it made some great gains on a full bolt-on car. Keep in mind that Mustang Dyno's read lower than Dynojets so it's important not to compare the two results. The Stg 2 test car will be tested at FFTEC soon so we can compares apples to apples. But enough of that, on to the interesting tuning talk! And for that, I turn the mic over to Shiv@Vishnu...

Please note that opinions expressed by Shiv do not necessarily reflect that of OpenFlash or any of its affiliates :)


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Hi guys,
Things are looking great as far as baseline maps go. My goal was to make a calibration that would work safely on a wide range of vehicles running pump gas. So RehabJeff and Phatpanda were kind enough to do some testing for us. First let's start off with Phatpanda's wild FR-S. It the flat black one with the insane custom body kit that has been on display at many car shows. As far as engine mods go, it has an AirRaid intake and a cat-back exhaust. Here's the story as told by the dyno.....

Phatpanda's FR-S

Run 1 (stock tune- solid line) and Run 2 (only fuel map changed for Air Raid Intake- dotted line)
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...b394151f99.jpg
This run was just to test the fuel map modifications I made for the AirRaid intake when testing our own Stage 2 car earlier this week. We found that the Air Raid intake tends to screw up the MAF readings making the engine run very rich, especially above 6000rpm. So the fuel map, I specifically made for this intake, corrects for this as you can see in the graph above. With only thing change, the car pics up a some decent power up top.

Run 2 (as above- dotted line) and Run 3 (add VVT map adjustment- solid line)
In this dyno, I just wanted to see what adding in the intake and exhaust VVT map adjustments did to power output:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...d9e2b0115b.jpg
This made some improvements to the torque dip. It also resulted in a richer AFR without any changes to the fuel table. This is a good example of how changes in one parameter can induce a change in another parameter.

Run 3 (add VVT Mao adjustments- dotted line) and Run 4 (add ignition advance changes- solid line):
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...28def7f9b8.jpg
In this graph, we see the effects of implementing the ignition map adjustments of our Stg 1 tune. Decent power gains everywhere. Especially up top. Air fuel is nice is

Run 4 (added ignition adv mapping changes- dotted) and Run 5 (Stg 1 baseline map for cars with Air Raid Intake- solid line):
In this graph, we compared the previous run with a full Stg 1 map. This includes changes to cylinder compensations, rev limits, air temp compensations for timing and fuel, etc,. And you can see that power became smoother everywhere.

Run 5 (Stg 1 baseline- solid) and stock tune (dotted line):
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...fa774df5a2.jpg
And to recap, here is the comparison of this car running our Stg 1 baseline map and the stock tune. More power up top and smaller/shorter torque dip. What is nice is that the car is still quite rich which means that there is still room left on the table for those who want to try to eek out every last hp. But for now, this is a good one-size-fits-all map for those with Air Raid Intakes.

But what about cars with stock intake boxes? That's where RehabJeff's car comes into play. And this was interesting because Jeff already had a previous Stage 1" Ecutek tune from another vendor. He got this tune 1 month ago (with cable and license for nearly $900) It is up to Jeff to say where it came from. Because what I found isn't pretty. But it's verifiable if anyone else wants to do their own testing with this particular tune. I'll post my opinions later but first just the facts...

RehabJeff's FR-S

Here are two runs from his Ecutek tune:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...6ed90c329e.jpg
The Ecutek vendor name has been obscured to protect the innocent. As fas as performance, it doesn't look that much different than a stock tune other than the fact it's running extremely lean at ~14:1 AFR. Top end isn't very special. Especially for a tune that, for some reason, has the rev limiter set at a 8000rpm. The most i was willing to rev the engine out to was 7600rpm on the dyno.

"Stock map" ecutek (solid) and Stg1 Ecutek tune (dotted):
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...bb9d0e516f.jpg
Given how lean the Stg1 tune runs, I'd say the "stock" tune is more preferable, safer and more stable. The Ecutek master tuner who did this did make very minor some changes to the VVT map (I was able to read his map) which resulted in some moderate torque dip improvements. But top end power was nearly identical other than the difference in rev limits. Not sure how they claim the hp numbers they claim but that's none of my business.

Next graph shows our Baseline Stg 1 stock airbox map (solid line) vs the Stg 1 Ecutek tune (dotted):
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...4ea79592cd.jpg
Pretty obvious the difference. Much better handling of the torque dip. More power everywhere. And most importantly, not running lean anymore. Keep in mind that we didn't custom tune our baseline map. It was just loaded up and tested as both RehabJeff and Phatpanda, who were present, can attest to.

Next graph shows two successive pulls of our Stg 1 baseline map just to show consistency:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...f4c613f504.jpg

So I was interested in see what made the Ecutek tune perform like it did. I wanted to rule out the possibility of there being something wrong with the car. So I read the tune off the ECU and then did a difference comparison with the stock tune. Here are the list of most of the tables that were adjusted (and how they were adjusted).

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...utektune-1.jpg

Accel pedal torque request tables-- these were modified to make the car feel "more peppy" so that the press of the throttle pedal results in more throttle opening. This doesn't actually improve max power but does give the subjective impression of more power.

Rev Limters- They were raised to 8000rpm. Absurd and unnecessarily stressful for an tune/engine that makes peak power at 7000rpm.

VTT maps- Exhaust VVT was barely modified over stock. Intake VVT map was slightly more modified but nothing close to optimal. This is why the torque dip was barely improved over stock.

Ignition Advance map- ~0.5 deg was added above 3600rpm under load. Not much tuning here.

Base Ignition maps- all stock (even the extra ones that Ecutek codes for in their Race ROM).

Closed Loop AFR maps: These were all set to 14.7:1. This disables long-term fuel trims. This was an intention choice the tuner made.

Fuel Map- here's where what I found shocking. It was mapped intentionally (ie, this was not a result of a series of typos). I don't think the tuner, who was responsible for the tuning, even used an actual external wideband AFR sensor. Instead, I'm guessing he relied only on the stock AFR sensor which anyone who has actually tuned this platform, already knows that it is NOT ACCURATE. It is calibrated to read far richer than reality. Furthermore, the values put into the Fuel table don't translate to the logged (ie, still inaccurate) AFR. For example, if you put 12:4 in the fuel table, you will see around around 13:5 in your datalogs. But your actual AFR (measured with a proper wideband AFR sensor) will read around 14:1. My guess is that this tuner made a couple wrong assumptions. First, he thought that the stock AFR sensor was accurate when he tuned on the road through datalogs. Second, he thought that what he believed was a 13.5:1 AFR was ideal which isn't close to being the case on a high impression engine with an aggressive cam profile (when actually, you want to see as rich as 12-12.2:1 in your datalogs which actually translates to an actual of 12.8-13:1 when measured with an accurate wideband sensor). There is no other reason why I can think that he would have tuned it this way. I wouldn't even call this tuning. It's more like fiddling and hoping for the best. And to be fair, there is some error involved with measuring AFR at the tailpipe, post catalytic converts where they tend to read ~0.2 point leaner than reality. But even that still puts this tunes squarely in the 14:1 range during most of it's RPM band.

Also, there were no mapping changes to important things like acceleration enrichments, over-run maps, o2 sensor calibrations, closed loop delays, etc,. I don't consider these maps very high level. Any competent tuner would adjust these immediately as are very responsible for throttle response, drivability and knock resistance.

Sorry if this upsets anyone. But sometimes people need to be upset before improvements can be made. My biggest problem with Ecutek "master tuners" is that they often aren't experienced tuners. They are customers of Ecutek. Ecutek makes amazing software geared towards their customers (their "master tuners"). There is no coincidence that they are first to market and are able to offer features that others don't. But when it comes to tuning (which is what matters), the product is only as good as those tuners who use it. And when you deal with tuners who are inexperienced and who don't disclose mapping details, there is very little growth since every "master tuner" operates in their own little bubble. Hopefully OpenFlash ROM tuning (which is now finally here!) will get them to shape up and improve upon their product.

That's my 2c,

Shiv

PS. When comparing the tunes, I made sure that the ignition advance multiplier was always set to 1. This is important when comparing tunes to the stock ROM which defaults to 0.7 after ECU reset which would otherwise result in an artificially low stock baseline dyno.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/9...0b6ae972_c.jpg

Dyno tuning begins at FFTec with Vishnu Shiv doing a baseline and making improvements one run at a time.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/9...e6be9bca_c.jpg

Baseline vs Vishnu tuning (timing and air/fuel adjustments only)

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3772/9...3fe2b8dc_c.jpg

RehabJeff86 on the dyno, after reflashing back to stock maps and Vishnu uploading the exactly same tune from my car onto his.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3687/9...fb433543_c.jpg

RehabJeff86 only has a drop in filter, exhaust and a pulley. His car made 3whp less at peak than with my car with Airaid intake box.

Driving Impression from Whathedunk:


I've driven the "Batmobile" a few times prior to his tune and as much fun as the car was to drive with it's outrageous amount of grip, the power band of the stock tune was limiting the car's potential.

The car feels completely different now compared to the stock ecu tune. Yeah the car may not have forced induction but I think it will hold it's own and be tons of the fun on the track.

Impressions on the tune, throttle response has improved, mid range power delivery is definitely more apparent, and power continues to climb to the new 7,600 RPM redline. I was most impressed with what Shiv was able to do with the torque dip, running through the gears my favorite place to be was from 4k-5k rpm as the motor really wakes up and comes to life.

I personally never cared for drive by wire on cars these days and always preferred the mechanical gas pedal but it seems the tune has improved the overall feel making rev matching and throttling out of turns even better.

I honestly was not expecting to feel much of a difference after the tune but I stand corrected haha. Although the tune would benefit track day/autox guys largely who are always up there on the power band, even daily driving would be more fun.

Last thought is that this is how the car should have came tuned from the factory. Kudos to Shiv for working out a tune so fast and Panda for letting me take the car out for a bit last night



-PP

WOW, those are some enlightening results. I really didn't think th factory sensor was that far off. Has the factory sensor been compaired to a wideband on a catless car? I guess i will find out next week when i install my wideband,

Wow, very impressed!

Cool that you could read that... as we call them in the software industry "script kiddie"... map I didn't even know that was possible with Ecutek?

This is all very intriguing and interesting!

Yes, the factory AFR sensor reads very optimistically. But of course, there are some variances in even the best aftermarket wideband AFR sensors so it's impossible to tell how accurate each is without actually measure the number of air molecules and fuel molecules going into the engine. So all sensors just give estimated AFR values. But the important thing to walk away with is that some of these vendor tunes seem to be almost arbitrarily tuned for a leaner-than-necessary AFR. If running air/fuel mixtures that lean actually had a performance benefit, I could see at least some kind of argument being made. But that's not the case. As you know from your tuning experience, you can (and should) run any high compression, knock/octane limited engine as rich as possible without seeing power loss. That's a basic tuning principle for street tuning for safety and power-- shiv

arrrggghhhh please don't call this open source tuning again. it very much isn't. i'm so conflicted i love your posts... so informative and they are a model for the kind of information sharing we need... but quit relating this thing to open source. it's just not. when it's on github and public under gpl/mit/etc, then you call it open source :).

sorry it's a pet peeve lol.

The ROM file is completely open to edit, re-write, modify, etc,. Which is why Open Source term is used. The read/writing firmware for the Tablet itself (or the Map editor) is not open source. Which is why we only call it Open Source tuning. Not Open Source ECU Flashing. But I think that's another topic for another I suppose. From now on, we can call it "Open tuning" if the term "open source" upsets anyone.

Yea definitely. However, it does "open" the tune file itself which is what you need to modify the tune for your car. In that way, I consider it a huge step forward and much more pro-consumer than the Ecutek business model.

There's really nothing "open" about the device, though, from what I can tell. But its the tunes I really care about. I'm also a little confused about the nature of the tune files themselves and whether those are truly open.

I don't think its right to mix "open source" and "tuning" in this way. I agree this opens up the tune file, but what about the hardware? That is not open itself, so no real "source code" is open here from what I can tell.

If you guys release the source code for everything then that would be really awesome!

EDIT: I just got this from their website..

It is a portable hand held flashing device with high-resolution backlit color touchscreen with internal speaker. It comes with a USB cable, OBDII cable and download links for the OpenFlash software (map manager), map editor (Tuner Pro) and XML definition files.

What is “open” ECU mapping?
The term “open”, in the tuning world, refers to being able to have full access to the ECU’s ROM file. In the case of the FA20 ECU, this ROM file is a 1.3megabyte binary (.bin) file that is stored in a memory location on your ECU. This file is where all the engine mapping data is stored. By “full access”, you are able to read, save and edit your original ROM file without any sort of encryption. You will also have full knowledge of table location (when defined in the .XDF definition file), its values and its scaling. There is nothing hidden or obscured for the sake of IP protection. Even the dealership won’t be able to easily tell if the ECU is modified since the software IDs are unchanged.



I think this can be considered "open" since the .bin is fully open to read and edit in a potentially different piece of hardware. Correct? But I still don't consider that "open source" at all like you used since none of the software you are using seems to be using an open source license...

thanks. those of us who spend lots and lots of hours committing to open projects let it strike a nerve sometimes lol. didn't mean to be offensive, but in a weird way that does offend a lot of people (nerds, mainly).

oh for sure, i'm just being picky. they could call it whatever the hell they want and i'd still buy one and love them for it. i just nerd rage lol.

I don't feel right about purchasing a product that calls themselves "Open Source" unless you are using an open source software license, which you are not.

This opens up the tune to be edited, yes, but there's nothing open source about this really IMO.

I was perfectly fine with you calling it "open" tuning but "open source tuning" is a huge misnomer and gives people who are involved with open source software a bad feeling as this isn't an open platform at all. It just cracks the ecu and allows you to edit it, which is good, but nothing about that is open source.

No I definitely agree with you. I thought they were referring to this as "Open tuning"... "open source tuning" is not right and they shouldn't be calling this that unless something in the platform is open source...

Impressions - EcuTek vs OpenFlash Tablet
 

Product: EcuTek Stage 1 tune by FT86Club forum vendor/master tuner
Impressions: FRS feels responsive for normal driving, easy to pass on freeway and going up hill. FRS does feel stronger at normal driving RPM 2-3.5k rpm. Acceleration flat spot still noticeable and not much different compared to stock file from 3.5k rpm to 4.5k rpm. On the track, not much different noticed at WOT. Engine sounds harsh and rough with EcuTek stage 1 tune.
Pros: Easy to use software and fast programing ECU. Fun RaceRom features, i.e. auto blip, flat foot shifting, and launch control. Easy to switch between 4 built-in maps.
Cons: Locked tune file for end-users. Hard to find local master tuners. Only EcuTek tuners can change RaceRom features. Auto blip, flat foot shifting, and launch control are all useless for me on the track. License not transferrable.

Product: OpenFlash Tablet by Vishnu Tuning
Impressions: FRS immediately feels smoother and responsive both normal driving and with WOT. Acceleration flat spot became minimal and feels linear now. FRS pulls strong from 3.8k rpm to 7.2k rpm. Engine sounds very smooth not harsh and rough.
Pros: Open tune file - you see whats been altered. End-users ability to tune the map and custom features i.e. flat foot shifting and launch control. No license required. Tune maps can be exchanged amongst all tuners around the world. Easy to use Tablet with tons of features to be added in the future.
Cons: Slower than EcuTek in speed of programming the ECU - per Vishnu Tuning - will be improved shortly at least 50%. Thats all I can think of for now :happy0180:

Final Thoughts: It is shocking to see the truth of EcuTek Stage 1 tune by a FT86Club forum vendor/master tuner - Only Throttle map was increased by about 25% to give buyer a sense of the car is faster. It is shocking again that there is minimum HP and TQ gain compared to stock file - vendor claimed 10-13 whp gain. Its even more shocking to see AFR running so lean above 14 from 4.7k rpm to redline. The Rev Limit should remain stock for Stage 1 tune IMHO given no HP gain after 7k rpm but post excessive stress to the engine. Im extremely satisfied with Vishnu Tuning by spending the time demonstrating what has been done step by step for a end-user like me with zero ECU tuning knowledge. The Dyno Tuning result was so solid and I bought a OpenFlash Tablet on the spot and never flash back to EcuTek.

Addendum: IMHO EcuTek product is excellent but selecting a truly experienced tuner is the key. Data-logging tuning is just not accurate. I will only recommend Dyno Tuning because you see the process and result in front of you that a Tuner cannot hoax you with a fake tune. It is more expensive but well worth it. OpenFlash Tablet will introduce our ToyoBaru twins ECU tuning to a new level that is End-Users based not Vendor/Authroized Tuner based. Cheers!! :happy0180:

Just got my shipping confirmation. Excited. I can see the compares were done with TunerPro. I assume that is what you are using to tune the maps?

I've already downloaded and installed it, but without a tune I can't play around with it.

wonder how this will work on an e85 turbo car

Shiv@vishnu will be converting our test car over to e85 next week so e85 maps will be available soon.

Also, I just read some of the tags below. But I will say that Jeff did not have a Visconti tune.

So getting a custom tune done by an experienced tuner is a good idea? Shocking.

Or OpenFlash Tablet is the solution that End-Users can see whats been done with each tune file so you are not just blindly programming your ECU. Vishnu Tuning will do the hard work coming up with proper tune file suitable for each application, i.e. 91, 93, 100, e85, flex, and FI, etc. :w00t:

(yay, my first post - long time lurker)

I think the shock is really who we think are experienced tuners.

You need to do proper "A" "B" testing and using dyno is much more helpful than a butt dyno (apparently it can be fooled by simply modifying the throttle position offset).

So whose your ECUtek tuner? :D

Yes I agree!
This is the most interesting topic on the forum currently and a breath of fresh air after all the expensive secret squirrel Ecutek nonsense.

I find it very funny that throttle map was increase or could be increased because everytime i asked that question was ignored. I knew something was up with that. happy to see this product offered. im sold on this! Good job guys. I've been holding off on many products that have caught my eye because of all the false claims i see here but i like where this is going.

I'm at a bit of a loss here. Perhaps someone could answer my questions? Forgive my ignorance, I've never been in the tuning game before.

1. If Vishnu makes a tune for 93 how will this be different from an ECUTEK tuner making a tune for 93? (assuming you are comparing it to a good tune)

2. If I have no idea how to read a tune, or interpret the data, what good is an open tune for me?

3. Is this product good because I can take it to a reputable tuning shop and have them tune the car without the need to be a dealer of the Tablet?

I think that we can all agree that getting a tune on the dyno is the best way to go about it. I like the idea of taking a really good tune for a stock car, and uploading it, then later when I add a full exhaust just taking someone else's solid tune (who has the same mods as me) and loading it to improve the benefit of my add-ons.

But in the end wouldn't I rather just get another dyno tune once I add a bunch of mods?

S you have 2 tunes 100 percent the same....ecutek vs openflash
ecutek and openflash are just the means of flashing the ECU with the tune file
Now my question is what else can they do? Lauchcontrol, 2step, nolift shift? like other tuners with ecutek offer can openflash do the same?

1. How do know if you have a good tune from Ecutek? It's not something you can access to check.

2. Because others do know and are able to pass comment.

3. Yes.

Don't forget the cost!

dyno test and datalog.

Just to be clear, these two cars were not custom tuned. They were just programmed with Vishnu's Stage 1 map. Jeff's car, in particular, only had to verify HP, not to tweak it for max power. The other car saw more runs because Shiv applied the baseline mapping changes one at a time for documentation purposes. These very same maps will be available on their website on Monday.

Right, I don't know the ECUTEK tune will be good or not, but really I wouldn't be able to know if the OFT tune is good or not either. I don't know how to read any of the data. The only way for me to know is to take each of them to a dyno.

The difference seems to be that I should be able to take the OFT system and tune to a tuner of my choice, whereas with ECUTEK I have to find a licensed dealer, and I might not even like that dealer.

Along with the price difference this seems like a large benefit.

Sounds good to me. The open nature of this product and mapping should reasssure you, even if you don't follow all the details.
If I were over there I would be keen to have Vishnu fine tune mine.

Can't wait! I'll be in Milwaukee all weekend and then heading home where the tablet should be waiting!

I'm curious; did you see this from datalogging, the base fuel table values, or just comments from the tuner?

edit: I think I know now I actually read the first post properly.

@Rombinhood@OpenFlash Can you find out what reference lambda kit Shiv is using?

Actual AFR is logged by the dyno (from tailpipe mounted wideband sensor) and plotted on the dyno graph (see graphs) along with HP and TQ.

Datalogs from the stock lambda sensor are inaccurate. And values in the fuel table are meaningless since since they are calculated and before any additional fuel compensations are applied.

I believe the Mustang Dyno at FFTEC uses an innovate wideband controller with standard Bosch wide range o2 sensor.

@ft_sjo - i'm seeing the 14.2 AFR on RehabJeff's first dyno plot (two runs of the ecutek tuned firmware). It seems pretty clear on the chart. I had to take a double take since the scaling on the AFR is different when there was a richer run on the other charts.

Thanks for the confirmation. I appreciate the OE sensor is not the most accurate of thing on the richer side of stoich, but neither is an LSU4, stones in glass houses n'all :)

It is somewhat amazing how wrong some people can get it!

1. With proper tuning both Vishnu and EcuTek tune should be similar +/- 2 whp and wtq - BUT keep in mind, OpenFlash Tablet tune file is transparent where as EcuTek tune is not. Hence, a bad EcuTek Tuner can hoax you with a fake tune just like what happened to me :mad0260::mad0260:
2. Post tune file data on the forum, there are enough knowledgeable OPs here to help you interpret, this is the beauty of open source, no tuner can Mickey mouse you.
3. Absolutely yes, anyone can contribute to creating tune file without requirement of a tune license. All you need is the OpenFlash Tablet to DL the tune file from PC to flash into your ECU. All tune files will be available thru website for DL at no additional cost. And all cables are included at no additional cost as well!! :confused0068:
4. Yes Custom Dyno Tuning is the best way to go if you already have EcuTek, but cost a leg and arm. Vishnu Tuning has done most of the hard work for OpenFlash Tablet end-users with proven dynoed tune files at a economical cost.

Yes, Vishnu Tuning will provide all those features plus much more, I will have to leave it to Rombinhood to explain. :party0030:

Absolutely yes, now we end-users are in control :happy0180:

Yes, and I had to learned the hard way losing $850 for a trash tune, I almost fork out another $750 for a local EcuTek master tuner to dyno tune, thank God Vishnu Tuning came to rescue me :bow::bow:

Most users have no idea what they are looking at when looking at map files, and many don't care to. It really comes down to finding a tuner you trust who has repeatable results. Ecutek has very powerful data logging, even Though you aren't looking at the map and tables doing a comparison between a base stock map and a tuned map isn't rocket science. Most people on here will be blindly programming their car no matter what the flash method is, that's just reality.

I am glad there are more options but tuning isn't really dependent on the device doing the flashing. No vendor lock in is a big win, I agree.

And the truth comes out about EcuTek once again. Thank you guys for all your hard work!
I had a feeling that when someone took the time to do a comparison this would come to light. Reminds me of another forum....