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-   BRZ First-Gen (2012+) — General Topics (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   BRZ to run the ring? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4600)

Subie4life 03-31-2012 03:09 AM
BRZ to run the ring?
 
Any word that when the BRZ will lap test the Nurburgring anytime soon?

Anybody best guess what lap time it will put down?

Does anybody think it will break into the 7 min mark?

Correct me if am wrong, but I think the best lap time for a production Subaru was a 2010 WRX STi with a time of 7:55, which amazingly is on par with a Ferrari F430 F1.:confused0068:

carbonBLUE 03-31-2012 04:35 AM
i could see mid 8 min times but 7 min i dunno, maybe...

ISF runs a 8:18, so dont get your hopes up

i would say 8:25 - 8:40 thats 350z - s2000 territory :D

gdi2290 03-31-2012 05:00 AM
Subaru didn't build the BRZ just for numbers. they build it solely for the driver experience ignoring numbers

[u2b]JLrJdXNZGS0[/u2b]

Koomoo 03-31-2012 05:22 AM
watching that video.... i almost had tears :wub:

Navi 03-31-2012 05:49 AM
indeed, no way it will go into 7 mins, more like high 8's, early 9's.

Turbowned 03-31-2012 10:27 AM
Nurburgring is a circuit built for much more powerful cars. Handling is paramount, but a good amount of power is needed, especially on the straights. I'm happy to see it laps Tsukuba Circuit in 1:07 (lightly tuned by HKS)

djdnz 03-31-2012 11:04 AM
Given the straights at the Nurburgring and the car's lack of power, I'd say expect low 9 minute.

tranzformer 03-31-2012 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie4life (Post 170640)
Any word that when the BRZ will lap test the Nurburgring anytime soon?

Anybody best guess what lap time it will put down?

Does anybody think it will break into the 7 min mark?

Correct me if am wrong, but I think the best lap time for a production Subaru was a 2010 WRX STi with a time of 7:55, which amazingly is on par with a Ferrari F430 F1.:confused0068:
:search:

We already have a guess thread.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ht=Nurburgring

Oriental Life 03-31-2012 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbowned (Post 170761)
I'm happy to see it laps Tsukuba Circuit in 1:07 (lightly tuned by HKS)
Thats faster than '09 STi: http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/suba...ti_a-line.html

Hachiroku 03-31-2012 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranzformer (Post 170781)
:search:

We already have a guess thread.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ht=Nurburgring
It's fine if there's concurrent / similarly topic threads in both the FR-S and BRZ forums. There are members who probably only browse a specific forum (out of choice or habit). It's on them to find if there's a better info/discussion thread in the FR-S forums.

86fanatic 03-31-2012 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie4life (Post 170640)
Correct me if am wrong, but I think the best lap time for a production Subaru was a 2010 WRX STi with a time of 7:55, which amazingly is on par with a Ferrari F430 F1.:confused0068:
That STI that ran 7:55 was not a production car so it doesn't really count against the production car times.

Here's the article, they clearly say it wasn't a production car: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ing-lap-record

The BRZ will probably be a 9 minute lap. As others have said, the ring is a high power track, handling will only get you so far.

Draco-REX 03-31-2012 02:26 PM
An excellent handling car can make up a TON of time in the section between the two carousels. But the other 2/3 of the track is more favorable to high power.

fatoni 03-31-2012 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco-REX (Post 170900)
An excellent handling car can make up a TON of time in the section between the two carousels. But the other 2/3 of the track is more favorable to high power.
I don't know about a ton but I guess its more technical there. Either way, that track isn't a great way to to measure the performance of a sports car. IMO its less valuable than things like 0-60

neutron256 03-31-2012 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 170940)
I don't know about a ton but I guess its more technical there. Either way, that track isn't a great way to to measure the performance of a sports car. IMO its less valuable than things like 0-60
It's a good all around test of a car vs. just power like 0-60 times show. For me it's honestly more important how much fun it is to go around the ring rather then how fast you can do it.

Shavenyak 03-31-2012 03:57 PM
I don't even think 0-60 is that important, unless you're a drag racer. I plan to auto-x the car, so a good metric for me would be 2nd gear acceleration out of slow corners. Maybe 20-50mph or so.

brewksy 03-31-2012 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shavenyak (Post 170975)
I don't even think 0-60 is that important, unless you're a drag racer. I plan to auto-x the car, so a good metric for me would be 2nd gear acceleration out of slow corners. Maybe 20-50mph or so.
That's the problem with most magazine racing: you get metrics that don't matter.

45-65mph "passing"? Are there a lot of 45mph two-lane highways that require this kind of passing? In Canada we have 80kph freeways but they're always at least double lanes in each direction, and we have 100kph two-lane highways which would require 60mph+ passing.

0-60 mph? Since when are you ever accelerating from 0-60mph (0-100kph) on a *regular* basis? Maybe on the rare highway merge after a stop sign? Even drag strips run a distance-test, not a speed test (1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, etc.), so again the metric is fairly useless.

This also makes it obvious why it'll be difficult to market the BRZ - it doesn't blow us away with these metrics. I definitely hope the car is still successful, but magazine metrics definitely don't show even a fraction of the story.

tranzformer 03-31-2012 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewksy (Post 170998)

My BRZ STI? Add lightness, forget the engine. Leave the changles subtle, forget the ground effects, 22 fancy emblems, and keep it low key.
Wrong thread. Should post that in here ;): http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2630

brewksy 03-31-2012 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranzformer (Post 171004)
Wrong thread. Should post that in here ;): http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2630
Ridiculous. I POST IT WHEREEVER I DAMN WELL PLEASE and then get people like you to cross-link it properly.

:)

/sarcasm

Enemies 03-31-2012 07:28 PM
Tranzformer, you a cop irl? You seem to like to tell people what to do. :P

neutron256 03-31-2012 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enemies (Post 171100)
Tranzformer, you a cop irl? You seem to like to tell people what to do. :P
+1

Shavenyak 03-31-2012 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enemies (Post 171100)
Tranzformer, you a cop irl? You seem to like to tell people what to do. :P
Dunno, but it looks like Brewksy might be ;)

blu_ 03-31-2012 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 170940)
I don't know about a ton but I guess its more technical there. Either way, that track isn't a great way to to measure the performance of a sports car. IMO its less valuable than things like 0-60
I don't think its the end all be all but I think its definitely more representive of a cars overall performance than 0 to 60. I'm surprised you said this considering you know what a miata can do.

fatoni 03-31-2012 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blu_ (Post 171125)
I don't think its the end all be all but I think its definitely more representive of a cars overall performance than 0 to 60. I'm surprised you said this considering you know what a miata can do.
the only reason i say that is because there are so many more variables over the course of a 13 mile track with hundreds of corners than a simple 0-60. im not saying its more important, im just saying that it usually a more accurate description of the car objectively. nurburg speaks much more about the driver and his luck on that day than anything other measuring stick we like to use with cars

blu_ 03-31-2012 08:23 PM
Fair point. I see what you are saying.

feedbag 03-31-2012 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranzformer (Post 171004)
Wrong thread. Should post that in here ;): http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2630
tranzformer if they wanted you to be a mod you'd be one.

Draco-REX 03-31-2012 09:31 PM
Except that 0-60 quantifies only a single aspect of a car, and a very narrow one at that. It also has absolutely no bearing on a car's handling. A track time is a better overall measure of the total handling package.

It's unfortunate that ring times are not directly comparable however. Traffic and a lack of any standards on timekeeping or car setup makes them useless. I find it interesting that one of the more standardized track comparisons across multiple models is on an entertainment show. :P

AVOturboworld 03-31-2012 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 170940)
I don't know about a ton but I guess its more technical there. Either way, that track isn't a great way to to measure the performance of a sports car. IMO its less valuable than things like 0-60
I'd have to disagree with this idea. 0-60 is arguably a far more inferior yardstick when it comes to overall performance of a *sports car* than ability at Nurburgring is. A car that does 0-60 in 4 seconds can do absolutely horrible at a race track, and a car that does 0-60 in 8 seconds can do absolutely fantastic at that same track - if it's handling and traction are superb.

Note, I've done Nurburgring over several days in a STI and an EVO for a back to back comparison, and that's just an incredibly difficult drive with the pucker factor dialed to 11. It also showed me better than any other track I've been on how "real-world" suspension tuning does have certain advantages over "track" suspension tuning.

Here's the actual issue - using only a "fast time" as an be-all, do-all objective measure of a sports car performance really only works for magazine stat racing. If it was really all that was necessary, then there would be no need for drive reports and reviews. Just go buy a car with the best times and that's it. Driver involvement, feedback, sheer fun to drive all would not matter.

Regards,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com
www.facebook.com/BRZSportsCarClub

fatoni 04-01-2012 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVOturboworld (Post 171179)
I'd have to disagree with this idea. 0-60 is arguably a far more inferior yardstick when it comes to overall performance of a *sports car* than ability at Nurburgring is. A car that does 0-60 in 4 seconds can do absolutely horrible at a race track, and a car that does 0-60 in 8 seconds can do absolutely fantastic at that same track - if it's handling and traction are superb.

Note, I've done Nurburgring over several days in a STI and an EVO for a back to back comparison, and that's just an incredibly difficult drive with the pucker factor dialed to 11. It also showed me better than any other track I've been on how "real-world" suspension tuning does have certain advantages over "track" suspension tuning.

Here's the actual issue - using only a "fast time" as an be-all, do-all objective measure of a sports car performance really only works for magazine stat racing. If it was really all that was necessary, then there would be no need for drive reports and reviews. Just go buy a car with the best times and that's it. Driver involvement, feedback, sheer fun to drive all would not matter.

Regards,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com
www.facebook.com/BRZSportsCarClub
i understand how driving there and tuning a car there can be good things but that isnt what is happening. people are just running around looking at these times. im just saying that these times are more subjective than people tend to treat them

AVOturboworld 04-01-2012 03:49 AM
That depends on who's driving the ring. If it's a professional driver who has done upwards of 3000 laps around the ring, then it's not all that subjective. I've had the pleasure of having to keep up with just such a person the one time I was there, and the one thing I could count on is that he was going to take each corner about the same each lap through. That's the basic definition of a professional driver, and that's what they get employed for.

It was like the mx5 spec race at Tsukuba circuit - while I could occasionally get a great lap in, the professional drivers I was co-driving with did every single lap within .15 second of each other for 30 minutes straight.

Regards,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com
www.facebook.com/BRZSportsCarClub

RaceR 04-01-2012 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enemies (Post 171100)
Tranzformer, you a cop irl? You seem to like to tell people what to do. :P
Chill... There is another big thread for Nordschleife Times.
Also, there is a thread for talking about 0-60 times for those who like to go into specifics about that..
And there is a thread for how you would like to BRZ STI to be...
It is nice to have some order, and I would not mind if Transformer was able to do some moderating...

I say +1 to this suggestion:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4611

Sorry for messing up a messy thread... :p
I do think ichitaka05 is doing a good job on this forum.

neutron256 04-01-2012 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceR (Post 171503)
Chill... There is another big thread for Nordschleife Times.
Also, there is a thread for talking about 0-60 times for those who like to go into specifics about that..
And there is a thread for how you would like to BRZ STI to be...
It is nice to have some order, and I would not mind if Transformer was able to do some moderating...

I say +1 to this suggestion:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4611

Sorry for messing up a messy thread... :p
I do think ichitaka05 is doing a good job on this forum.
If the mods want to make transformer one of them fine, but vigilante mods can get more annoying then what they are trying to correct/prevent. It also leads to a really negative atmosphere. If you have an issue with something let the mods know, and do it privately. You don't need to constantly call people out in public.

And yes I do see the irony.

brewksy 04-01-2012 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feedbag (Post 171155)
tranzformer if they wanted you to be a mod you'd be one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutron256 (Post 171510)
If the mods want to make transformer one of them fine, but vigilante mods can get more annoying then what they are trying to correct/prevent. It also leads to a really negative atmosphere. If you have an issue with something let the mods know, and do it privately. You don't need to constantly call people out in public.

And yes I do see the irony.
No need to get all wrapped up in it - he noticed where I had intended to post and gave me the link and even added a winky-smiley to show he wasn't too serious. No big.

fatoni 04-01-2012 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVOturboworld (Post 171356)
That depends on who's driving the ring. If it's a professional driver who has done upwards of 3000 laps around the ring, then it's not all that subjective. I've had the pleasure of having to keep up with just such a person the one time I was there, and the one thing I could count on is that he was going to take each corner about the same each lap through. That's the basic definition of a professional driver, and that's what they get employed for.

It was like the mx5 spec race at Tsukuba circuit - while I could occasionally get a great lap in, the professional drivers I was co-driving with did every single lap within .15 second of each other for 30 minutes straight.

Regards,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com
www.facebook.com/BRZSportsCarClub
yeah but i think when you consider the differences in conditions that number willl grow significantly. the course is 10 times longer, there are 10 times more turns, there are longer straights to further penalize your errors, elevations changes, its a public road and many of those numbers have come with traffic on the road, different drivers, its not 30 minutes its now months if not years, significant weather variables. now i think that tskuba would make a pretty good indicator as the track is short and its much easier to get a good lap there than something as huge as nurburg

bestwheelbase 04-01-2012 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewksy (Post 170998)
45-65mph "passing"? Are there a lot of 45mph two-lane highways that require this kind of passing?
There are lots of 50 or 55mph highways where you may come upon someone driving a bit slower (say 45mph) which makes this a relevant data point.

If 60-80mph or 20-60mph is more important to you, consider getting a VBOX PerformanceBox and posting your results. I am sure many folks on the forum would love to see your findings.

Jaylyons1 05-23-2013 04:31 PM
somehow double posted...

Jaylyons1 05-23-2013 04:33 PM
I've seen a couple people run right at the 9 minute mark on more then one occasion while dealing with multiple yellow flags slowing them down.


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