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FWD cars?
Why so much hate on FWD Cars? I mean i get that rwd will be more fun and can drift and all that but everyone seems to be wrapped up in this RWD>Everything state of mind. Even though lots of people are coming from FWD cars.
Lets not mention that in Auto X and other tracks FWD cars like the integra and other models have been quite impressive and kept up with both RWD cars and AWD cars. |
I think it's a combination of snobbery and armchair racers.
It's nice to have RWD in some situations but most of the people using this car as a daily driver, it's not going to have a real impact. |
There isn't any 'hate' on FWD cars.
I reckon pretty much everyone here has owned at least one and likely enjoyed them as well. Sometimes the praise for the FRS/BRZ can make it seem people are a bit up themselves when discussing the merits of FWD/AWD/RWD, but really unless you're looking to start another thread full of arguments, there really isn't anything to it. Edit: oops Alias beat me to it |
Oversteering is fun.
Anyway, move to off topic. |
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I just wanted to remind people that FWD IS and can be great! |
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My first two cars were FWD. My next four were RWD. The following three are AWD. I've also driven FWD rentals, a FWD delivery vehicle at work, and a friend's FWD car.
AWD is my favorite, having the most control over the car's grip. RWD is a close second for pure fun factor and snow behavior. FWD is a distant last. I do not like FWD cars. I don't like the way they feel. All that passive weight behind and a lack of control over the rear grip annoys me. They just don't feel properly balanced and don't match my driving style at all. So yes, I immediately cross any FWD car off my list of cars to own. This isn't armchair racing, this is experience. |
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Hence the 2 categories I stated, you'd fit better with the snobbery :P I was only trying to jokingly categorize people's biases, not ruffle any feathers. I'd say I've got a decent bit of snobbery in relation to manual transmissions, I like them better and will scoff (quietly) at people who choose to drive automatics. This doesn't actually make one transmission better than another, it's just my biases and preferences. Just like what wheels have power going to them will have different pros and cons based on the application and preferences of the driver. |
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I have never felt any of the 3 FWD cars I've driven (Corolla, Sienna, xD) understeer. Even in the mountains (Sierra Nevada), twisty roads and freeway on ramps. How fast do you people drive?
I have faith in FWD cars. Should be interesting to feel the difference in an rwd! Can't wait! |
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So when I drove our Sienna with my family of 5, (none of us are overweight) to Las Vegas, with all our luggage and everything, I didn't achieve the limit of the car while going up a steady 8% gradient at (no higher than) 70mph with the accelerator to the floor already? Darn. On another note, why would I need to push those cars to its limits on public roads? Is it the car's limit I'm retaining, or is it my own limit I'm retaining? |
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Now if the the fwd is set up in such away it can exhibit lift off over steer. I have sticky tyres on the front and boring tyres on the rear of my vehicle and it has creamy smooth fun inducing lift off over steer.(My car weighs 1080 kgs with me in the car). Fun in the dry, requires careful driving in the wet. But I am suggesting most fwd cars have been designed for space and/or cost saving rather than it's steering characteristics. Lastly on an important note. One can not say that rwd is faster/slower than fwd. One can say that this particular car/model is slower or faster. There are plenty of cars out there. Some fwd cars are faster than some rwd cars. Quote:
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FWD has cost, packaging, and efficiency advantages, and I'd never dismiss FWD as not being able to compete. I just don't find its dynamics fun anymore, and I'm glad that I don't have to put up with FWD torque steer and understeer (given that cars like the MX5 and FT86 exist). The comments questioning the virtues of RWD remind me of the comments questioning the significance of low weight. FWIW, I'm even more of a lightweight snob than a RWD snob (and would much rather drive a MCS than a Charger). |
I have a 2010 Cobalt SS turbocharged. I was an idiot and didn't get one with LSD. I have GM Stage 1 turbo upgrade that boosts the engine power from 260HP/260TQ to 280HP/320TQ at the crank.
So, what's not to like? Torque steer. That is all. At stock, without the GM Stage 1 turbo upgrade, the torque steer wasn't that bad. But now that I have it installed, torque steer is ridiculous. Even when I'm in 3rd and I floor it to get around someone, I can feel the torque steer kicking in. Don't get me wrong. The car is fun to drive, but torque steer is probably one of the main reasons why people don't like FWD vehicles... at least when it has that kind of power. |
*shrug* I've driven FWD and I don't like it, or the compromises it makes and requires.
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FWD is the worst, like evar! I would never own a FWD car!
Seriously though, my preference is RWD, then FWD, and then if there were no other cars left in the entire world, AWD. |
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There are a bunch of FWD cars out there that handle fantastic and are tons of fun to drive. They do require different skills to "dance" with than RWD or AWD, but are nonetheless still effective. |
Frankly, I loved my SVT for a solid 3 years until I started getting bored of it. About the only gripe I ever had with it was torque steer after I started boosting.
As far as handling characteristics the car was incredible, predictable and a LOT of fun. Hell, with all my mods stripped off (except my urathane bushings) the car will still out-handle the vast majority of RWD & AWD cars I've driven. |
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and oversteer is when the rear tires start to lose traction before the front tires if you have never experienced understeer, that means you have never driven to the point where your tires begin to lose grip also i'd assume then that you have never driven in the snow... or even rain for that matter. |
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Lol Especially when busting U-turns. :D |
1. place: RWD without a doubt
2. place: FF/AWD split, depending on conditions and car On daily basis I drive my cars on the limit and above. If it is a sharp corner or a roundabout I will always go fast out of it. Usually playing and balancing the car on its limit. Often sideways, intentionally of course. :) Most of my cars have been RWD. In the 10-15 min drive I have to the local supermarked. Or driving another 10 min another way so that I can walk up on the mountain. I often go sideways 1-4 times in a RWD car like my MR2. Especially if it is wet (wich it often is). The other day I was much sideways several times in the dry, and my MR2 only have 140hp on 215 tires. Says some about my driving style.. You do not even have to go sideways, only feel the car on its limits in a RWD car will give great driving pleasure! Due to my driving, drivetrain is important. Understeer is just not fun, and with a FWD car you will mostly have that. And you will always understeer while powering out of corners after entering the corner like you would on trafficked road. ________________ I used to have a 2010 Golf bluemotion as a company car. Yawn.. Very depressing wintercar. Understeer all over the place. Very boring overall. When that is said. I just bought a slightly used Cooper S over a BMW 1-series for my new private/company car. (My older MR2 is too small for work use, and GT86 is not on sale within the first months. I also wish to save up for it since it is really expensive here!) The 1-series was a bit heavy and not that engaging as I would have hoped. It would have to have less power compared to the Cooper S. And I would always end up with wheelspin on the inner tire when driving it hard. Id rather have a fun fwd over a rwd 1-wheel drive none drifting BMW that I would not feel fully content with. (I love BMWs tough) Fitting a Quaife LSD on the bimmer would be out of the question with the "short-term" ownership I am planning. The charm of the Cooper, the power, the turbo and torque, the handling, its lightness, its "goofyness", the special cookpit. Its premium feel. The car makes me smile even tough it is FWD. It is fun to drive and, and its a car I have to take that extra look at when walking away from it. It is a passionate car for me. Kids and everyone loves it too. (Picture below does not really do it justice) Could I live with it in the very long run? Probably not. The need for RWD is too big. But it will be my main car until i buy the GT86/BRZ, and I will enjoy it even tough I am a RWD nutthead! (it helps to know my next car will be rwd) I look forward for some autocross driving next month with my Mini and driving it on the Nordschleife in the future, even tough it is FWD. My MR2 will be sold since I am saving up for the GT86. I would never have guessed I would pick a FWD over a RWD, but for me the Mini was the exception. It was one of the cars I just had to own. ________________ My Conclusion and car philosophy: Handling and driving feel is the most important stuff! Most FWD cars sucks! Most AWD cars sucks! Most RWD sports car are awesome, and RWD in general is more fun! There is always some exceptions to the "rules" above. Heavy cars are less fun since they feel more like a ship compared to a go-kart. Throttle response is more important when driving on the edge and going sideways. NA is preferred in RWD. In FWD/AWD it is not that important unless you have a superlightweight and powerful track car. The most fun cars to drive are those who are light, have RWD combined with LSD and NA engine with reasonable amount of power. If it is a little practical on top of that. Then you have a winner... Sounds like a GT86/BRZ! ;) Picture from this afternoon. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...op_small_1.jpg All this writing makes me want to drive, just for the fun of it. It is moist outside now.. And I have some more spare time.. RWD sounds fun, but I drove the MR2 last time..hmm... |
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A well set-up FWD sporty car can make AWD redundant. |
I drove 4wd the rwd then fwd...
4wd feels best... rwd i can feel like Iam being pushed from behind... and fwd. I can feel the pull from the front. I felt safe with 4wd i felt intrigued by rwd And i feel kinda laid back in fwd. |
In general, FWD tends to be a little less fluid and engaging.
But a FWD car like my neighbor's FWD Integra Type R is a blast to drive around, unlike my cousin's bug-eye WRX (AWD) which I do not enjoy much at all. Weight, transmission, suspension set-up, and power levels can make FWD pretty fun, but they are few good FWD cars (Cooper S, Integra Type R, Cobalt SS). With all that said, there are a ton of RWD cars I enjoy driving. |
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And this is ignoring the simple fact that an AWD car has twice driven contact patch. Now while there are situations I'd rather have RWD over AWD, and FWD over RWD, there are none where I would rather have FWD over both RWD and AWD. |
Power.. bleh whatever. I've driven some high HP car and been in seriously high HP cars. Exciting for a few seconds then I get bored.
FWD and RWD can both put down all the power I want without the complexity, expense and weight of AWD. I've also yet to find a AWD car that I've considered fun to drive.. closest being a well setup track EVO and the 2.5RS. |
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IMHO a well set-up FWD car - from the factory - like the Megane R26R, Ford Focus RS II, some of the JDM Hondas, will outpace a 300bhp AWD car. It is just about how you prefer to get around in the end. |
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Simply put, FWD has no business being anywhere near the word SPORTS CAR or SPORTS COUPE. Keep it in your economy class commuter sedans where it belongs. I've owned many, many cars of all types, and flat out, RWD are more fun to drive, and drive correctly.
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I just dont like my front tires handling 75% of the braking, steering and acceleration.
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That question always gets subjective answers. Both platforms have their shortcomings. Both can be made into great track cars.
My daily makes 294/275 at the wheels. Its FWD. Launching takes a lot of finesse. The understeer, while I was able to modify the suspension to help it, is still a nuisance. The FRS wont be my daily driver, so I hope to exploit the chassis dynamics as much as I can. IOW - For me, FWD is fine for a daily, but a fun weekend car would generally be RWD, with the exception of a CRX. |
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Not so much hate. Just looking for a different experience.
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For a pure daily driver, I don't really care. You won't really see the distinctions between the two under normal driving... except for a few acceptions ie a Mazda 3-not even the Mazdaspeed... N/A 2011 Mazda 3 hatchback. Normal driving, any somewhat quick acceleration in 1st, 2nd, even 3rd sometimes-instant torque steer. GAY!
For an all around car, I prefer RWD over all. Still just as solid as every other type on the street and more fun-for what I like-on the track. Mostly just comes down to personal preference. To say FWD cars dont belong in sports car categories is just straight up ignorance. So a properly built ITR or EK9 has no performance capabilities that meet/exceed those of some FR cars??? You sir, are a dumbass. I've seen numerous FF cars destroy tracks and post lap times much faster than other cars. I will say that, now adays with cars gaining size and weight, current FF cars on the market aren't as competitive as the ones back in the day, but that doesn't mean they aren't fast or can be. Personal preference. I don't hate FWD cars, I hate what 95% of people (kids who play too much NFS) do to them. For me: Track: RWD>AWD>FWD Street: Reliability/Pracitcality/ etc. |
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