Gt86 engine change?
 

Scion FR-S Engineer Discusses Power Upgrades For Coupe
By Erick Ayapana
August 16, 2013

See Photo Gallery (8)
The FR-S won’t be getting any power upgrades anytime soon, but it’s a different story for the Toyota 86, the Scion’s twin sold in other markets. According to the coupe’s chief engineer Tetsuya Tada, the 86′s boxer engine will definitely be offered with more power for the model year 2015 refresh.

Tada discussed three possible power upgrades in an interview with The Sydney Morning Herald. The first option would be a turbocharger, which has already been widely speculated since the 2013 Scion FR-S, Toyota GT 86, and Subaru BRZ arrived in showrooms last year. Tada is also considering a boxer engine with more displacement, but didn’t divulge details on either option. However, a Toyota insider told The Sydney Morning Herald that the bigger engine could be a 2.5-liter boxer-four producing around 255-hp. The current 2.0-liter mill powering the 2+2 coupe is rated at 200 hp and 151 lb-ft of torque.

Toyota is also considering a hybrid system, which would likely employ a lightweight super capacitor system in lieu of a conventional (and heavy) battery pack. The automaker will likely wait until the next-generation 86 to introduce a new hybrid powertrain. And it’s possible that the U.S.-spec FR-S may not receive any of the aforementioned power upgrades at all. That said, aftermarket support for the FR-S is growing strong, with plenty of options for enthusiasts looking to add more power.

Toyota is looking even further into the future and has already started working on the current Toyota 86′s successor. The coupe’s impressive corning abilities will obviously remain, but Tada recently suggested that the next -gen model could ditch the boxer-four in favor of Toyota’s upcoming four-cylinder turbo engine that is expected to debut in a Lexus SUV.

What power upgrade would you like to see in a refresh of the current-generation Toyota 86, Scion FR-S, and Subaru BRZ? Take the poll and comment below.

Source: The Sydney Morning Herald

If Scion doesn't get the power upgrade, at least it will make everyone's choice easier to buy the Subaru... And it will officially become the most worthless and retarded car company of all time.

I'd be down for mo' displacement, so long as it didn't get much heavier, which I doubt it would. 2.2? 2.3? Especially if it bolted right up to the current headers. I ain't trying to go full titanium engine back on my 2.0, just to make it all incompatible with an engine swap down the road. Luckily, I have made 0 intake/exhaust purchases, so I may put that off even longer now.

What a well thought out response. Would read it again!

I thought it was just me not understanding it, but @Bristecom, how does the Scion branded cars not getting a power boost affect anything? Are you implying that the Subarus will get an upgrade but the Scions won't?

Well yes, that's what it sounds like - that this may be a level of car that will be offered with the 86 and BRZ line-ups next model year but not the Scion FR-S because they are so stuck on only offering one limited/cheap model in their line-up.

Sorry, it's just annoying when I come on here and read things like, "New power upgrades coming!" and then immediately after a Scion "engineer" announces they don't want the upgrades. :mad0260:

That's not how I understood it.

"The FR-S won’t be getting any power upgrades anytime soon, but it’s a different story for the Toyota 86, the Scion’s twin sold in other markets."

I know it said this:

"And it’s possible that the U.S.-spec FR-S may not receive any of the aforementioned power upgrades at all."

but I feel like they just said "FR-S" because "FR-S/BRZ" is too wordy and "the twins" would be confusing to some readers. Outside of a silly "STi" trim, I don't think there will be such a serious upgrade to the BRZ as a new engine, but not to the FR-S. I think everyone will have just as easy/difficult time deciding between the two as they always have.

If the US gets a new engine, then both cars will get it. My feelings.

http://d1e0u2actw4eb3.cloudfront.net...9221974152.png

Either they discontinue the FR-S for 2015, or it will get the engine upgrade... Toyota/subaru most likely will kill production of the FA20 we have now in favor of the new power plant... no sense in keeping both.

I hope so. If this new engine ends up replacing all the current 2.0L engines, then it shouldn't be a problem. But if it's going to be optional in other markets, Scion likely won't bite. Oh well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see as with every rumor. But I would love to have a bigger engine in the FR-S. I'm still hoping for the HID's too in the non Series 10 cars (which will likely never happen).

I'm wondering how much the new engine would cost if available in the US. If it ends up only being available in Japan, it'll probably be too expensive per benefit for me. And then there's the tranny...

Well thats a bummer that the FR-S doesn't get any upgrades.. Would be nice to have more power with a warranty, but the aftermarket is strong with this car. I like the idea of bigger displacement, or even a turbo, but not so much a hybrid.

Hell naw. Big ol' heavy ass battery n' shit...

They could probably use the extra weight to engineer a perfect 50/50 balance, but I think I'll keep my marginally front heavy FR-S without all the extra weight and complexity of hybrid shenanigans.

I think hybrids are a bit half-assed anyway. The only reason human kind is still fucking with combustion engines is because of money. We have the technology and potential for technology to get away from this bronze age combustion nonsense, but we just... don't. A hybrid is just a step away from that (albeit in the right direction), but screw that. If you're going to go environmentally friendly, just go all the way with fully-electric and stop pu$$yfooting with all this "hybrid" fuckery.[/rant]

I got my car for handling. If it suddenly starts getting 1mpg tomorrow, well then... LOL! Will still drive it.

DI 3.0L H6 mounted further back; push the firewall back a good 8" or more and get rid of the dumb parcel sh- err, rear seats. This car needs NA torque, not terb0.

I will be pleasuring myself tonight to this thought.

Haha true that! We didn't get our cars to have it turn into a Prius halfway. Plus, you can't have a Rocket Bunny FR-S looking all exotic but sounding like a Prius :bonk:

If they move the battery and some fluids to the back I'm sure it can achieve a closer 50/50 weight distribution.

If they can make this car with Honda S2K power while still being NA, it would be perfect. The S2K dynos in at about 200WHP stock and we have to go headers and everything just to barely squeeze out 200WHP is kinda lame :iono: Like I said though, even if we don't get the upgrades I'm looking for, aftermarket is strong for this car and there's lot of potential.

That's true, and a good way to look at it. Worst case scenario: we have a great car.

RIGHT?! Shitttt, I'll even take a 3.0L DI H6 NOT mounted further back as long as it's available!

I wonder what the weight difference would be for a new 3.0. Probably worth it. I'll be taking all but my driver's seat out eventually, so the thought of better balance and center of gravity PLUS doing away with the back seats that are a bother to begin with... all in one move... is a beautiful thought. Not good for overall sales, but I am not Toyobaru. I'm just some guy that wants to be able to change directions in his car with mind boggling precision and timing.

If you ever apply for a job at Toyota, feel free to use me as a reference. "Yes, he graduated with a 4.0 from every college, his work ethic is unparalleled, and he saved my family from a burning building. Chuck Norris has a picture of him in his wallet."

The newer EZ30R (mid 2000s era) weighs ~315lbs wet with all ancillaries. That's about 40lbs over the EJ20x series of engines; not certain how our engines compare to that 2L weight-wise.

Engineers love to dream but the accountants run the show. Doubt there will be any major changes any time soon.

Just eyeballing the two engines and the engine compartment in the BRZ reveals the H6 would fit.

Apart from weight balance problems the most likely technical obstacle would be crash performance, the H6 would occupy some crush space ahead of the front axle. Otherwise it's a pretty short engine.

The biggest practical obstacle is the simplicity of supercharging instead, or simply fitting bigger cylinder bores.

Looks like there may be some kind of an announcement on Monday. .....

the fa20 is actually a very strong motor. turns out it handles more boost than anyone thought it could have, and its holding up just fine.

Dont forget we bought the fr-s because of its potential. make it as fast as you want, dont wait for a faster version to come out!!

Geez, only a dimwit would buy the FR-S for the engine. So what does that say about people who buy the car then complain that the engine is weak?

I predict it will have a small block 350...

I watched this video last night:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLP-HCcX9as"]The 450 HP Crawford Performance Turbo BRZ - /TUNED - YouTube[/ame]

After watching that, it makes it seem less likely that they'll upgrade the engine. I'm sure they invested a lot into developing it, and clearly it's a pretty tough machine. But if they do scrap it for a whole new engine, I too think they'll go with a small block 350. It just makes sense for this car.

Crawford took the FA20 apart and switched the stock pistons with lower compression pistons.

yeah but then there are people dailying cars on 18psi, and stock internals

That's not how you engineer a car to last 100k miles, though.

Subaru's method was a lower compression ratio.

or maybe they remove/discontinue the FRS from the scion line up and just move the car over to toyota brand and have on standard FT86 in the lineup?

'was' being the key word here. cooling/knock is less of an issue because of DI + port injection.

something to think about.

You misunderstand. The turbocharged FA20 from Subaru is not the same spec as this engine. It's technically 'was' because it was designed in the past, just as our engine was.

Oh guess we were on different wavelengths, I wasn't even thinking about the turbo FA20. It doesn't even have the same fuel injection setup as the one from the ZN6 (which is what I was referring to).