Any first time manual drivers here?
 

I'm getting the hang of it. Slowly but surely. Starting from a standstill is the trickiest part for me. A buddy of mine who has been driving stick for a few months now drove my BRZ the other day and says the clutch contact throw is pretty short and the throttle response is fast making the car tricky for a first timer. Was your BRZ your first manual tranny? Any tips, any bad habits I should avoid? :)

-Tony

I didn't learn manual on a BRZ/FR-S, but an FR-S was actually the 2nd manual car I've ever driven.

Couple of tips:

If you're still new to driving manual and find yourself at a stoplight or in traffic, remember that you're less likely to stall if you rev the engine a bit higher (maybe 1.5-2k RPM) than needed before you start engaging the clutch. It puts a bit of wear on the clutch, but better than stalling and having people honk at you. Once you get more accustomed to your car, you'll be able to roll it off the line with the gas barely pushed in. It's all about getting used to where the engagement point of your clutch pedal is.

Also, if you're just driving around town and not trying to blow past someone in a full throttle drag race :), remember to rev-match on both downshifts and upshifts. You probably won't learn to downshift right away since it requires you to blip the gas for each shift, which is a bit tricky. But for upshifts, make sure you let the RPMs drop enough before you let go of the clutch pedal into the next gear. Ideally, when you release the clutch pedal, the RPM of the engine will not spike up or down. This will preserve your clutch life.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...light=practice

there you go

A difficult manual transmission car is best to learn on IMO. I learned on an Impreza and those are REALLY tough to drive compared to a lot of other cars with manual trans.

This car IMO is about mid-range in terms of difficulty... I did manage to stall it once on my test drive learning the clutch, but the shifter snicks nice and easy so that part will be down nice and quick. Pretty much just learning clutch vs. throttle timing.

I learned manual on my friend's 05 STi and now was hard... Heavy clutch, a transmission that requires force and finesse at the same time and 300 hp is not an easy combination for first time manual driver. I burnt his clutch quite a few times too.

As for BRZ, the clutch is very light but the being a Subaru it also requires non-half asses shifts. When you shift, make sure your clutch pedal is completely down, right foot is completely off the gas and then move the gear lever with confidence and some force. If you half-ass it Subaru transmissions have tendency to feel like it is going to grind it even if it isn't.

This definitely isn't my first manual car but like the others have hinted at just take your time and practice, practice, practice. For me, I learned on older cars that didn't have the anti-stall function that a lot of late model cars have. Learning the basics was much simpler this way because it was clear cut, either you saved it or you stalled it.

If you haven't already been doing it, an empty parking lot is great to do stop-and-go learning. Start off from a standstill like you usually would, then brake to slow down to a stop just a few yards away, repeat. Learning how to catch the engine from stalling in the process is the main idea here.

For steeper inclines, don't forget you can also use your hand brake for assistance to keep from rolling back.

Thanks for the advice. I read nearly all of the thread in post #3 too. Good info there. I appreciate it.
As for shifting, why does the clutch pedal need to be all the way to the floor for a shift? I've been reading differing views on this. Our cars have a late engagement on the clutch throw so as long as the pedal is past the engagement point, then there is no clutch contact, and the syncros can do there thing without any grinding right?

I got my car less than a month ago and it's a first for me in many ways.
I'm only 19 so it's my first car, first RWD car, first manual car.
So you can imagine how nervous I must have been at first.
I actually only test drove the automatic because I was afraid of feeling embarrassed in front of the salesman because I knew I would stall the car over and over.

Anyway, basically go with what the others have said. Picking up my car from the dealership was the first time I actually ever drove a manual car so I knew I had to learn, and I had to learn fast.

I stalled it more than a few times on the way home, but mostly I just revved a bit higher (about 2k, maybe even close 3k sometimes especially if it was a bit of an uphill start) than an experienced driver would and that got me going. Drove around a bit that night and woke up the next morning and suddenly I didn't stall anymore...I drove it all the way from home to work without stalling it once.

I've only gotten better ever since. Much smoother shifts. I can get the car going from a stand still without any throttle input. I can keep the car still on an uphill with just the clutch and accelerator and without any brakes. I can rev match my upshifts and downshifts without even looking at the tachometer to see where the revs are or what gear I'm in. The car slowly becomes an extension of your body and it becomes as natural as being able to feed yourself with your eyes closed. You just can't "miss".

Be prepared for a lot of rough shifts when the car jerks because you let go of the clutch too quickly. Be prepared to be afraid of hills, especially in traffic. Be prepared for your leg to get tired from the clutch for the first little while. It'll all get better really quickly. Honestly, a few good hours of practice will be more than enough to get you really going and you won't even have to "think" about having to start from a stand still or having to balance your car on a hill with just the clutch and the gas. It'll all become rewarding really soon when you get those shifts down perfect.

I haven't even had the car for a month yet and I've gotten so good at it, I've even started to throw in some heel-toe action in, though I can't quite get it right and it feels awkward to twist my foot around so much.

Good luck!

I can't speak for your advice on shifting as my BRZ hasnt arrived yet and I only had a short test-drive at low RPMs and minimal shifting. But just FYI, the transmission in the BRZ is not a Subaru transmission at all. It is a Toyota/Aisin box based on a modified version of that in the Lexus IS200. However, Subaru did have some input during those modifications, and in particular targetted shift feel, and perhaps whatever they did contributed to that feel that you speak of.

I've had my BRZ for 8 months and still developing techniques for starting in 1st and smoothly shifting to 2nd.

My biggest issue was slipping the clutch into 1st gear, I did it a lot before I learned how to properly ease the clutch out, feel the catch point, and then get on the throttle. Also, theres a variety of ways to get into 2nd (regular shift, rev matching, or double clutching), either of which are suitable in the right circumstance and require certain finesse and concentration to be smooth.

I learned on my FR-S. Making it take off is the hardest part when you begin with the car. Once you get a feel of the catch point, you'll get to take off without even thinking about it.

Shifting from 1st to 2nd smoothly is tricky in this car, because of the synchros. You need to stay on the clutch a tiny bit longer to let the revs fall a bit more, otherwise the car will jerk. Had that problem in the first 2 weeks with it. 3rd and over will be smooth as butter unless you push it (which you're bound to do at some point).

Practice makes perfect. Can't say I'm perfect with the car, but from someone who had never driven a MT car regularly before my FR-S, it gets easier :)

So there's already tons of great tips here.

Keep trying and don't give up! This isn't the easiest clutch to learn on. It's very short compared to the RX-8 I learned on. By short I mean the clutch is either in or out with little in between.

I will applaud you for giving the MT a shot vs. taking the easy auto route. You will NOT regret it soon enough!

Good luck.

For those of you that 'blip' the throttle when down shifting and would like to step up to the next level, try this: Blipping the throttle suggests taking a stab at the throttle as you down shift and is sort-of-a hit and miss method of doing it. Instead, as you down shift, anticipate where the rpm's will want to be when you release the clutch. Coordinate your left foot and right foot so when your clutch engages your right foot has gently brought the rpm's up to where they will want to be. It doesn't take long to develope this into a habit. Things will go much smoother and you won't sound like a hot dog on a motorcycle blipping his way up to a stop light.

This is the only car I've driven with what feels like a linear clutch pedal - the amount of force remains the same (or close to it) throughout the entire pedal travel. Normally there's something of a cam-effect where the force builds to a peak, then drops off.

I'm not sure if that's good or bad, it's just different.

When I first started out driving stick, I was too focused on looking at the tach and rpm's and trying to hold the level of rpm's that I thought would result in a clean start. That resulted in me not paying attention to the clutch operation and either letting it out too fast and lurching or just stalling altogether. Once I was able to break the habit of always concentrating on the tach, everything got smoother and I stalled a lot less.

Give yourself a week or two to feel out the car, where the clutch catches, and how the car reacts to throttle input as you release the clutch - you'll start realizing that the car will get away with just a bit of revs if you operate the clutch smoothly. My problem was way too many revs in the beginning. You'll be a pro in no time.

Drive safe.

Listen, I'm trying to be a boi racer here.

Follow whaap's advice exactly if you're new. Your mental tolerances of where the rev's should be will become smaller and smaller the more acclimated you get to the car. Eventually you'll be measuring the rev's based on sound and no dash reading.

In fact, don't ever "randomly" jab the throttle and go on your way. Take note of how off you were and adjust accordingly. Also take mental note of how much effort you put into your jab. Developing the mental memory is the key to improving your ability to drive a standard in the smoothest and gentlest way possible.


I have to note though, the way I do it, I always clutch it into neutral, match revs and then press the clutch again to go into gear. I've tried doing it where I just downshift into the gear leaving the clutch disengaged as I rev-match and then engage the clutch but that's been pretty difficult for me.

Are you saying you're capable of doing that, or you do it on a regular basis? I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to ride the clutch like that, it'll cause a lot of premature wear and tear on your tranny's disc and flywheel when you leave the clutch partially engaged/disengaged.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong? :bonk:

100% correct. It won't be long before you would be buying a new clutch. Don't ever set in one place and hold your place by engaging and disengaging the clutch. Hold the brake till you're ready to go and then, if necessary, use the emergency brake in co-ordination with your clutch and throttle to get going.

While we're on the topic, one more point to make. A tach is a neat instrument. Don't rely on it too much. Your interest in reading your tach should not be such that you're a traffic hazard like people texting on their phones. It won't take long before you will be able to feel/hear where your revs are and you will know whether to down shift or up shift without having to rely on your tachometer. Like everything else, it just takes practice.

Does the BRZ have Subaru's hill holder feature like its other models? I've not tried mine.

Oh and for those unfamiliar with other cars with proper clutch feel this a Subaru clutch is awful. You can get used to it but it is still the worst clutch I've ever used, and that's saying something since I drove a 1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 fitted with a double plate clutch at the transaxle which was far from smooth.

Actually, one worse clutch was on a Lotus Élan I test drove with a competition clutch mated to a stage 1 engine with lumpy cams. That was pretty abrupt.

And for the guy who doesn't want to hit the floor with the clutch pedal every shift, no you do not need to it's just a handy way of ensuring the clutch is disengaged. If you can tell where it disengages without hitting the floor go for it. How you would know for sure is beyond me, I can't feel anything through this clutch pedal, its truly awful.

No it does not. I've driven cars with that feature and I don't like it, It really messes with me, mainly because I'm used to driving cars without such a feature.

And no, the 86 clutch isn't craptastic.
You just put your feet on backward this morning.

Yea my buddy's 2013 Focus ST has hill assist. I wouldn't object to the BRZ having it but it's a good feeling that you can drive without driver aides.

I don't find I'm relying on the tach at all. It's mostly the sound of the engine. My car only has about 140 miles on it so is it bad to always be shifting between 3-4k for city diving? I find it a little difficult to be smooth if I try and shift between 2-3k. And I have to force myself not to let it rev out so much. Also when shifting into first must the car be at a standstill, or is it okay to be rolling at 2-4mph? I know not to force it into gear if I feel resistance.

I only have maybe 2 hours experience driving the car and probably only 20 minutes of that is city driving, the rest is neighborhoods. My Father came with me to buy the car and he drove it home. I drove my BMW 328i back since I didn't trade it in.

Capable of doing it. I'd hate to put that stress on my brand new car's transmission by doing it regularly.

The only problem sometimes, especially for beginners, is that now that most people are used to driving autos, other people aren't courteous enough to leave much space behind you at a red light, even if it's uphill because they don't expect the car in front of them to roll back under any circumstance. So with cars standing so close to you on a hill, it can be nerve-wracking for a beginner manual driver because they're not sure if they'll be able to let go of the brake and "catch" the car with the clutch before they end up hitting the car behind them.

What I usually do to avoid that is when I'm stopping at a red light on a hill. I stop my car and let the car slowly roll back on its own a bit and that usually scares the driver behind me and gets them to stop early and give my car more space. That way I don't have to be nervous and I have plenty of time to let go of the brake and catch my car without using the e-brake, even though my reaction time has greatly improved and I barely let my car move an inch before I catch it.

I do this too. Every so often the next car still doesn't get it though. This is my first manual since I first started driving. So I had about two months of experience 8 years ago. On my drive back from the dealership I had one of the people that didn't "understand" my roll back when I saw him coming up behind me. I got a little bit spooked then and ended up peeling out a bit on start up. Needless to say, he got the hint then and stayed the hell back....

I learned on a '02 miata and I got the hang of it in a few days. I found my BRZ a lot easier to shift but that's because my miata is running on its stock clutch after 11 years.

I also bought the BRZ as my first manual car. I have driven friends manual cars a few times throughout the years but nothing like a daily driver.

I had a horrid time on my test drive, stalling everywhere, because I went on lunch break and had boots on! Learned that lesson quickly!

Overall, this car has been a dream to learn on. The clutch is so easy and as soon as I learned the catch point, hills haven't been a problem. Still working on the little things like rev-matching for proper shifting.

My BRZ is my first manual transmission. I haven't driven it all that much over the first 6 months (still under 700 miles), because although I commute to work every day, traffic can be nasty and I was really stressed out about work anyway -- and the thought of being stalled out in rush hour traffic and not able to recover was enough to keep me from doing it. Over the past few weeks, with a new job in hand, I've been a lot less stressed and have been finally putting on the miles and getting some more confidence.

I stalled it out a lot starting out. I drove it around the office parking lot when I first got it, practicing (the office lot was huge and most of the companies had left anyway, so it was very vacant -- and the parking garage had a really nice wide ramp that was great for practicing hill starts). I've revved it a lot recently (trying very hard to stay under the 4k RPM mark as recommended for the first 1000 miles) to get it going in 1st gear from a stop, because having stalled it several times trying to "be gentle", I kinda swung in the other direction. I'm trying to settle somewhere in the middle, and getting better at it.

Getting a smooth start and transition to 2nd is still about 50/50 for me. I *can* do it (I know this because I've done it) but sometimes I just don't get it right, and I'm not always entirely sure why. Going up through 3rd to 6th and back down again I've gotten pretty good at. I'm not heel-toe-ing yet, but I've gotten pretty okay now getting RPMs "close enough" when downshifting.

I can't stop making weird faces when trying to clutch & shift, though. Like the wiring between my left foot and right hand goes through my mouth. You'd think I was trying to shift with my tongue... :P

...Paul

I've always felt that learning on a Honda is the easiest way. Hondas have great shifters with very light throws but distinct gates. They also have clutches which aren't too heavy and have a forgiving amount of clutch/gas before it stalls. That said, it took me about 2 days to get used to the BRZ's engagement point--it was shocked at how low it engaged compared to my Mazda3 (previous car).

Far from my first manual but it did take me a while to shift smoothly with this car. One thing I've noticed is the DBW throttle body closes slowly and I've tested to verify. I'll let my foot off the throttle completely and quickly push the clutch in and watch the rpms rise.

Oh thank you for saying that -- I thought I was doing something wrong! On fast acceleration from the highway onramp metering light, I was noticing that although I was coming off the gas before hitting my tach light, the revs would blip up just enough to trigger the tach light when I put the clutch in for a fast upshift. I thought I wasn't getting my foot all the way off the pedal or something, but it didn't "feel" like that. (BTW, I have the tach light set low because I'm still breaking in the car :) )

...Paul

What is yours set at? I'm not in the break in period. Just got out of it last week, but I'm curious. I set it to 3000 RPM for the first 500 km, and then 4000 RPM for the remaining 1109 km (1609 km is 1000 miles), now it's set at 7400. :burnrubber:

I set it to 4k to start, then realized that if I saw the light, it was already "too late", so I think I set it down to around 3800 or something like that... Another 350 miles and I'll crank it up. :)

Edit: That said, I've also noticed the upshift-for-efficiency blinky triangle light, which goes off around 2000 rpm, so when I'm not trying to stretch my legs a little, I shift way early. Looking forward to seeing what it feels like to really use the whole band. :)

...Paul

My first car with manual transmission was 11 years ago. Still use handbrake on steep hills to save some wear on the drive line. No roll-backs or bogging the engine down for me. When I'm walking on the street and I hear people burning their clutch on a hill for a good 5 seconds, bogging down their engine without a handbrake assistance, I cringe every time.

Hand brake, not just for parking and sliding the ass out. Trust me.

One of the harder cars to get it right on is the s2000. That car really doesn't like low RPMs.

I prefer a beefy clutch and the FR-S' clutch is a bit too soft for my liking. Older Toyotas were easy to learn on for me it's easier to modulate a heavy clutch.

Just joined, this is my first manual. Had the car for a few days now. My father went with me and drove it home (far from his first manual) and he even stalled it and had shaky starts, so that made me feel better.

I have the shift light set at 3500rpms and I'm finding out with me getting started is by far the hardest part. I do watch the RPMs and usually keep it around 2000RPMs, but I find myself either letting my foot off the gas when I let the clutch out or I release the clutch too fast. Kind of hard to get use to doing both. I find out as well that when I start thinking of it, or worrying about other cars I stall more then when I just kind of have a "tunnel vision" so to speak.

After I get started everything else is pretty much smooth with shifting unless I miss a gear (only happened once) going to third, but went to fifth by accident.

At nights traffic is the worst here (which is when I go to work for the graveyard shift) I've been driving my parents car then when I get home at 0530 I been driving my car for an hour before traffic picked up.

As far as stopping what do you guys do? This topic has all sorts of answers but I usually just leave it in the gear I'm at until I come to a complete stop, I use to downshift every gear to 3rd but that's just putting more wear and tear on it.

There's definitely a change in feel at the engagement point; the pressure builds up and up and then once you reach that point it lets go. It's still reasonably easy, but it's certainly a difference at least IMO.



The only thing I've had problem with is consistency on rev-matching. whaaap's method doesn't work for me, I am NOT that coordinated. I don't necessarily give it an indiscriminate "stab" either. It's a metered jab that is usually right around where I want to be or at least within 200-300 RPM.

I'm certainly no expert, but I'd guess that it's more fuel efficient to put the clutch in and just coast to a stop. Like say you're driving downhill to a stop sign at the bottom. I know I NEED to stop so I get off the gas, put the clutch in, and shift into neutral, and let the clutch out. Then once I'm going 2-3mph, I'll put the clutch in again and put it in first as the car comes to a stop.

If I'm coming up to a red light I'll usually leave it in gear a little longer, just in case the light turns green.

Is it true that it's better for the tranny to be in neutral with the clutch out while at a stop, like in traffic at a stoplight, than to be in gear with the clutch in? A buddy of mine told me that but he wasn't really clear why thats the case.

Technically, leaving the clutch depressed while stopped puts extra wear on the throwout bearing.

But I've done it in Manuals for many, many years without any issue at all. If it causes any problems it's one of those ones that may arise after 100,000 miles or something. It's not one of those I would worry a ton about if it's a habit that you're in.

Personally I always leave the clutch depressed and the car in-gear if there are no vehicles behind me. The only time I may release the clutch is if someone is behind me and I know the wait will be fairly extended. I do this is for safety reasons as there are a multitude of reasons why I may need to quickly get out of the way, most of which are no longer potential issues once a vehicle is stopped behind me.

That said, there are compelling reasons why you should keep the car out of gear in that situation as well. While I prefer to leave the car in-gear with the hope (illusion?) of possibly avoiding a rear-ending, if you are rear-ended and pushed into a live intersection, having a vehicle that is stalled because you dropped the clutch in the impact is not a safe position to be in.

Ok here's what I know, you should always be in gear while moving, never coast on neutral as there isn't any control there in case you need to speed up or avoid something by speeding up. Coasting on neutral will also wear down your brakes a lot faster as you're stopping the car at a with more force. Here's also how I think of it when driving an automatic you don't put it to neutral to stop, you just leave it in drive and it's always in gear so you should do the same with a manual.

It is better, you should never clutch in unless you need to. If you're at a stop clutch out and stay on neutral until you need to go into gear. Basically try to stay off the clutch as much as possible.

My real question is I know people that drive and downshift 4->3->2 then neutral everytime stopping and it seems like they don't blip the throttle so I'm assuming they're letting go of their clutch slowly which will kill the clutch also but what I do is if I'm on 5th or whatever I'll just leave it in 5th until I'm almost at a stop, causing less wear on the gears. I downshift at times but not at everystop for sure, especially with blipping it'll get a bit too much unnecessary wear.