FR-S vs MkIV Supra
 

Hi,

Anyone giving up their Supra for a FR-S/BRZ? I am in the market for a new DD and not sure which way I should go. I will only be doing bolt-ons and no plans for the track.

I have viewed the PRO/CON on paper, but was hoping some members could provide some insight.

Search under "supra" or "MKIV" that should get you some good results, I for one am one of the guys coming from 4 supras to an FR-S, a 300hp whp FR-S is faster than a 400 whp supra. cheaper to get parts for, cheaper and over all new car. It's been talked to death, but good reads. :)

Thanks for that. I found a thread under general that I can read up on.

I am selling my 98 supra na auto to get a brz.

You mean you would actually trade GOD'S CHARIOT for one of these little 200hp whizbangers? This car will never make 1,000whp on stock internals and be the best car ever gifted upon humanity, are you insane man?? :thumbsup:

/sarcasm.

LOL
having driven "GODS CHARIOT" for over a decade I can say its time to move on...LOL different strokes for different folks...

No way in hell I'd give up a Turbo Supra for one of these, unless I had a couple to spare. The Supra is the last real sports car Toyota made (the LFA is a supercar, i guess), and even when the 86 hits, the Supra will continue to be the last real sports car they made. It's looks, inside and out, are timeless. It also handled incredibly well for it's time, and even by today's standards. It has a bunch of aftermarket support laying around to boot, and knowledge. It's an icon.

Icon? yes. Last sports car Toyota built? No

Did they build another sports car that I missed along the way then? Was it secret, and in JP only?

If you're not planning on going to the track, and if you aren't planning on doing any serious, curvy sprited driving, I would go with the MKIV.

Otherwise, I would suggest the FR-S/BRZ.

I think people forget that the MKIV can also handle, and was one of the best handling cars for it's time, and even today. It's just easy to forget that considering the obscene amounts of power it can easily make.

It was a good handling car *in it's day*. In modern times it is pretty much outclassed by anything. 3500 pounds is a lot of weight to be throwing around corners, regardless of power.

Unless you are planning on rebuilding the 15 year old car's suspension and possibly engine - and of course dealing with the upkeep of a 15 year old turbo car which lived through the fast and furious craze which probably had double digit previous owners doing who knows what to it, stick with the FRS/BRZ.

The Supra Turbo in the 90's tested out at mid 4's to 5sec 0-60, .91-.95g handling. Those numbers today stand tall over many cars, including the 86. Once again, you like others seem to forget that the MKIV Supra can absolutely handle incredibly well, despite it's weight. This is something that needs to be addressed. Just because a car weights in over 3000lbs, doesn't mean it won't handle great.

Whilst true that to buy one now you'd have to do some overhauling on wear and tear, once "restored" (wow saying that for a 90's car), it would outclass the 86, easily, and decisively.

Not to mention it still looks good today. And, TARGA. It was and is still the last real Sports Car Toyota made. The LFA is an exotic/super car more than anything.

Nobody ever has any love for the MR-S/MR-2 Spyder. :( 7th gen celica GTS was quite a coupe, too.

Thank God someone else can recognize this too! :bonk:

mr2

MR2 stopped production before the Supra, thus my statement still stands, the last real sports car they made.

The MR2 Turbo was yet another incredible car Toyota made in it's golden era of the 90's. Those days are still gone unfortunately. The MR-S wasn't that special, nor was it a looker. It wasn't carried over as the MR-2 name because even Toyota knew it wasn't worthy of the title. I had a 2000 Celica GT-S. Fun to rev and the VVTL-i was cool, but once again, despite it being light, with a high-revving NA motor, it too lacked oomph getting out of the turns and on straights. Stepping into my Evo was like entering a whole new world. I'm still waiting on a real sports car from Toyota, but I don't think they have the magic left in them to do a proper MKV Supra.

It's like people are going hook, line, and sinker on the marketing stuff. The way some parrot it, it's like they're on the payroll. Look at the GT-R once again, where it's designer said it needed to be in that ballpark of weight to add to the handling, and it's numbers speak for itself. Reading here, you'd think the GT-R would corner like the Renault Robin, or a Yuke.

the mr-s was also called the mr2. if you want to split hairs about that fine but the fact remains that the mr-s was a sports car. it was also in line with the original mr2 than the sw20 was.

do you honestly think they intended to add weight to improve handling of the gtr? weight was a negative effect of adding things that had a positive effect like awd and dct. weight is bad period.

saying they wanted to add weight to improve handling is like saying people wear condoms to improve sex.

The Supra and the 86 are fairly different, so it's all about what you prefer...


The feeling you get when that 63mm starts spooling at 2k RPM, and hits 25psi of boost at 5k to 7k. OH MAN. It's great! But I feel like having super-progressive chuckability in the FRS will be just as exhilarating.

I dare not try to take my Supra to the limit, but in an FRS, I feel like I could be more ballsy...

supra and MR-2 are in the works, there was about 8 pages of it on this forum somewhere lost in a thread

it was about toda saying the gt86 was the first of 3 sports cars to bring back to the line up

gt86 - handling
supra MKV - power
mr-s - being in between the 86 and the supra

all most likely to be turbo'd and in production in the next 4 years

toyota is also going to the smaller displacement engines and turboing most of the lineup in a few years aswell starting in europe and bringing them to the US

The MR2 Spyder is 2195lb, has 2 seats, RWD, mid-engine, has more agility than pretty much anything out there... and somehow it's "not a sports car"

Get real...

Power can be added to any car. It's only one side of the equation. A simple bolt on turbo kit, or a 2zz swap, and you have a pretty damn fast car. I swapped a 3.5L 2GRFE into mine, and it's great... but it was still a sports car before any mods.

Looks are subjective too, but I like mine... It's a shame I'm selling it to get this slow ass BRZ ;)

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6235/6...114eec33_b.jpg

2GR-FZE would have been even better, that thing probably would have made a few mustang owners pretty sad

still a cool and very different build i must say :D props, why not keep it and get the brz?

^^UPSPRO I recognize that name from Spyderchat haha. My gawd you hooked that thing up so nice. I had a black one too w/ hardtop. Before I sold it, I parted out my C-ONE quads, full TRD bracing/suspension, TRD Japan headers/cat/inlet to a lucky few for way cheaper than I got them (think I was the only person in the country to import the cat and exhaust). Sweetest handling feel of any car I've owned.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7421746_n.jpg

It seems more and more spyderchatters are migrating over here I guess in pursuit of their next permagrin fix. ;)

I've owned them :wub: and miss them. Elements of the BRZ will remind me of them in some ways. My dad had a MkIV Supra TT; might be using the money he got from it for a BRZ/FR-S.

I just drove my supra the other day after not having driven it for about 4 months. I shat my pants! I know the 86 is never going to be able to give me that same feeling but I know it's going to be a completely different experience.

Supra's are power mad. The 86 is going to be hard to put in the same category...

I still get held up over that 3400lbs for some reason. Maybe because the car is just smaller than most cars today I feel it shouldn't weigh so much. My Audi weighs 3800lbs but it's also fairly big, and yet it still handles brilliantly (thanks to quattro and some meaty Michelins). I've heard Supras don't make the best track cars, either. I think my biggest problem with them is that *most* of their owners are total douchebags. Hence the "GOD'S CHARIOT" comment, lol. All that crap aside, I still get a little giddy when I see one in person, but yawn when I see one in a magazine. "Oh look, another 1,000whp Supra... and I'll flip the page to another Civic with a shaved engine bay and a K-swap, and another 240 with a body kit...

That's just because the Supra is a real sports car, and it outclasses the 86 in every regard outside of fuel economy. The MKIV Supra Turbo is one of those rare cars that we'll never see from the likes of Toyota again in full brilliance. If they were to do another, it'd be mucked up somehow I feel at this point with Toyota's track record.

You mean it should have got a real motor. The 1ZZ was a joke without what's considered heavy mods. Even my 2ZZ in my GT-S wouldn't have been a proper motor for the car. Like it or not, the motor is just as key to a real sports car as is the suspension, chassis, and styling. Deal.

By that logic, the Miata is not a sports car either... many would disagree.

A 2zz Spyder with a PowerFC (to kick the left in sooner and smoother, makes a world of difference) is a car to be reckon with.

I am not arguing that the 1zz was the right choice... it wasn't. However, the Spyder is still a sports car, and a damn good one. I mean the car barely even has a trunk! It's almost as raw as the Elise. I have to ask if you have ever driven one in anger?

JohnnyR is too concerned about putting cars into classes and making bold statements about cars "outclassing" others to be concerned with the details.

MR2 Spyder was meant to compete with the Miata. It did great. Those cars are not better or worse then a Supra, they are different and fill a different need. In many ways those cars are better then a Supra. I would go so far as to say the 1ZZ was the right engine choice, the 2ZZ adds a non trivial amount of weight to the rear and tends to throw off the balance. The stock car feels perfect 50/50. Take it from someone who has driven both a 1ZZ and 2ZZ swapped Spyder.

Supra was meant to compete with the VR4, 300ZX, RX7 and other Japanese twin turbo 6 cylinders. It did great in that sector of cars. These cars are not better or worse then a Miata or a MR2 Spyder, again they fill a different need.

The FRS/BRZ is meant to appeal to the same people who might be considering a Cayman, 911, or other purist sports cars. It will be a bit slower due to power, but also cost 1/4 as much and generally be more appropriate for public roads and having fun at a race track. It is not better or worse then anything else, again it fills a different need.

It's very telling that every time I talk about vehicle dynamics, handling, and involvement, JohnnyR always beings up 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times. Someone is living at the drag strip.

IMO, MR-Spyder is MUCH more of a real "sports car" than the Supra. at 3400+ lb., MkIV Supra and Z32TT are Japanese muscle/pony cars that handle.


It is appropriate for a PROPER "sports car" to have a small, lightweight engine.

MkIV Supra is a landmark car. But it's more "Japanese Muscle" or jr. supercar than a sports car. Miata and MR-Spyder are the *real* sports cars.
Deal :P

coming from many 400 hp+ cars... all I have to say is "my driving and power preferences have changed..."

Wrong, set down the kool-aid for a sec. I actually track my cars and understand fully well the importance of power through various turns and on straights. Power is necessary for the turns you know.

This car started as one thing, and ended up another. Right now it went from a potential new track car for me to now a daily beater that's probably not boring to drive and look at while getting decent MPG. I'll just have to wait a little longer for Toyota to actually come back to it's Golden Era form which I direly miss.

There's two types of kool aid being thrown around here. The Supra kool aid and the FR-S/BRZ kool aid. It is up to the consumers to pick which kool aid tastes better. ;)

With amount of buzz and hype that the 86 is producing and the aftermarket development that's going into it, I'd say Toyota is doing something right... It's sucks to say but I don't think the Supra seems like it is in line with Toyota's brand anymore. I wonder who would actually pay for a $150k Toyota if it came to it?

Supra Kool Aid is always going to taste better. FR-S/BRZ (Diet) Kool Aid is probably better for you though. :happy0180:

I really enjoy creeping on your post's and learning from what you have to say. Cheers:happy0180:

The MKIV Supra just evolved off of the Celica Supra (before it's own more self iterations), so it's original intention was not that of competing with TT6s.

Nobody who is looking at a Cayman, 911, or purist sports cars is going to look at a Sporty car such as the 86. It lacks the "refinement" found in those cars, not to mention a proper motor to be considered a "sports car".

Once again, I don't live at a drag strip, and I've proven that much. What about the turns where you need to power out? What about the straights? Hell, what about passing cars on the interstates/highways or even driving a mountain road in commute. Power/Motor is important if you like it or not, though the 86 lacks it so it's not needed according to Toyota, err, I mean real enthusiasts.


If they'd come out with a proper Supra in the low 30s (base) with a premium REAL high performance model like the Turbo was in the day and it was in the 40's, I think many would buy it up. Myself included. We're speaking USD of course, saw your local. :)

Wait. How much were Supras going for new when they were released in the US? I know the answer is going to make me cry but I guess I would like to know either way...

I know In the last few years, in Australia, some Late Model Jap Spec Supras were still demanding over $35k + once imported into Australia.

He is just asking for something that is financially impossible. Ignore that

About 41k MSRP in 1998 for the Turbo Manual. It was about 31.5k for the NA.

WTF? Aren't some used supras still fetching roughly those prices today?

I guess the ratio from Australia to the USA would make it valued at roughly $80k if they were sold here.

If they released a Supra for $80k in the future that would be tempting! Of course it would have to live up to it's predecessor though so Toyota has alot of work to do!