Aftermarket parts cannot VOID your warranty
 

Just to be clear, I am not a lawyer and no I wont stay at a Holiday Inn.

But, if you ever wondered if your CAI, Exhaust, LED's, UniChip, etc will void your warranty the simple answer is no.......UNLESS the manufacture can prove the aftermarket part caused the failure.

See http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/po...nuson-moss.htm for more information

Can't they void it if you personally do the install instead of having it done professionally?

They have to prove the problem was caused by the installation / part.......

Even easier to understand link http://autos.aol.com/article/warrant...rmarket-parts/

"This means that, under the provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, an automotive dealership/carmaker cannot void your warranty because your vehicle has been modified with aftermarket parts. They (the manufacturers) have to prove that the failure was the direct result of the installed aftermarket part. Unfortunately, too many folks have gone to a dealer to have warranty service performed on their modified vehicle only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states, that because of the aftermarket parts installed, the warranty is void (without even attempting to determine whether or not the aftermarket part caused the problem). This is illegal...period."

And as to racing at events, see the bottom of this link

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...ty-intact.html

Thanks for the info! :happy0180:

And why I love SEMA.....

http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/...ermarket-parts

They can do whatever they want in the moment.
It's up to you to take them to court and prove them wrong which costs more money than the warranty work.

I've been telling customers about the Magnuson and Moss Warranty act for almost a decade now. I feel like not enough people know about this, and are scared of modifying their brand new cars because of how some people have been treated by dealerships and their aftermarket parts.

All of this of course can be 100% avoided by going to a GOOD dealership. I had a modified BMW for years, with almost everything you can think of aside from engine internals, and still under warranty they would do oil changes, fix my window regulators that went out all the time, and they would have no problem fixing them, so it 100% depends on the dealer you bring it to.

I was so comfortable with my dealer at the time, that I just straight up told him, "Check engine light is on. I know why it's on, it's got no cats at the moment, but can you still do my maintenance for today?" He said that's not a problem, and made some witty joke I cannot remember, but they were great to work with.

The truth. That's why it pays to have a great relationship with your service guy.

This is NOT the truth.

If you, after consulting a lawyer, feel you can reasonably win a case in court, you are entitled to lawyer and court fees from the defendant.

That's the point of the M-M law, consumers can sue and get their fair compensation.

Dangling the M-M law in front of a vehicle manufacturer, given that you have a valid claim, makes them often provide the work/service without question.

Having a good relationship with a good dealer often solves this problem. And as long as you have a strong paper trail and the dealer knows what to do, you shouldn't have any issues with warranty service.

The only reason why dealers don't want to work on a modified car is because the service manager (or GM) fears being (or has been) burned from denied warranty claims to Subaru. Keep in mind that warranty work is paid out of pocket by the dealer (in terms of parts/labor) and they then have the manufacture reimburse.

-alex

That's great if you live in the USA.

Lawyers require retainers for cases there are always out of pocket costs, filing fees, court costs etc. etc.

Been there done that. Most lawyers will stay as far away from these types of cases because its bottom feeder crap. You can dangle the law in front of them all you want, they still don't have to fix your car.

When you win, they will have to pay your court costs......at least if you put that in your case.

When I have had a stealership try to void a warranty (Ford product) all I did was mention this act and say "lets see what the court says" it was fixed.....sure, they will try because most people don't know the law.....they back down quick when it will cost them money to prove you wrong.

Burden of proof is on you. Point is you have to pay up front which is thousands in court costs and legal fees that you may lose, when either the OEM shows up to court of the dealer. Huge risk, lot of stress, and money just to file and start the process.

Not as easy as empty threats, most car owners are not going to park their car broken and waste half a year taking a manufacturer to court over a 1k repair bill.

Then find a better dealer... or a better car manufacturer.

To be honest, a smart dealer doesn't sell cars. They sell a service and an experience, so in the long run their marketing efforts are geared towards grooming new customers and not so much retaining old ones.

If some dealer does this to me, I do two things: 1) send a written complaint to Subaru, and 2) take my business elsewhere. Enough of the first, and the manufacturer will step in to resolve it as it is a hit on the manufacturer's reputation.

And if you were completely wronged and the dealer still refuses? Feel free to document it and let the local news station know. They love a good investigative story.

-alex

P.S. This is assuming you have a valid warranty claim to begin with.

I have been down this road with 3 cars. Even those un-modified.
It's good to know the laws that protect you. However the legal system costs money and time. The key thing is time. I am with you, use the law to your advantage. But it will rarely be a cake walk.

Fine, be a victim......no sense in arguing with you as all you seem to want to do is sit back and take it.

Like I said I have already been through the legal route, it cost me more than the repair bills.

I've been wanting to get an aftermarket exhaust installed but I am afraid that the dealer might be sketchy and void my warranty.

I talked to many dealers and they all have different answers. The common answer I get is that as long as the exhaust does not cause any problems. So can anyone help out? I want my damn exhaust already..

This ^^ My thing is that I want to install the exhaust myself because I know I won't mess anything up. And I don't want to fork out $100-$200 just for an install...

On paper it looks great.. but in the real world.. it's not so easy nor would it be inexpensive in time and money.
The dealership and OEM know this..
I had my warranty voided in the past.. was easier to just get rid of the car than to fight it and deal with the BS. I also had a great dealership who
was mod friendly and reasonable to deal with.
keeping the mod bug at bay for awhile me thinks... trying to anyway..
i have a lifetime warranty on the car via the dealership.. every new Toyota and Scion get it.. then that evil innovate blower came to market..

Why don't you just get the TRD exhaust and have Toyota install it? I know it costs a lot more, but I love the look and sound and it would be covered under warranty even if there was an issue.

As for the rest of this thread.. Well.. Let me tell you, it does not always come down to a dealership. The dealer is just getting reimbursed by corporate (Subaru/Toyota/Nissan, etc) for the warranty work. So if you get denied, it could be the dealer, or it could be SOA/TOA who, after reviewing your case, denies your warranty. You can dangle Moss Magnuson all you want, but they have armies of skilled lawyers who deal with legal threats all day long. So you better be prepared to front some money, get a really good lawyer, and go to court.

Some of this is definitely commonsense. If you get an aftermarket exhaust and you have condensation in your tailights, I cannot imagine a dealer denying warranty work. If you slap in a turbo, new radiator, modified ECU, etc and then start throwing CEL's and tell the dealer/corporate it is on them to prove your mods caused the issue? Good luck with that.

And some of this is your relationship with the dealer and how you communicate. If you come across as an egotistical prick, many dealers will show you the door.

I typically only do light mods to my cars (exhaust, maybe some suspension work, etc) and have never had an issue with any car I have bought from Nissan to Mazda to VW, to Hyundai.

Basically, if you add an intake and the steering race goes out, they cannot void the warranty.

Burden of proof is often on the consumer though. Best bet is to find a dealer who is mod friendly when taking it in for warranty work.

I was in the same boat as you but decided to just do it. You only live once. I did a lot of searching and couldn't find an instance where a warranty claim was denied because of an exhaust and multiple instances of SOA honoring engine claims with minor mods including catbacks. The chances of an exhaust causing any engine problems are slim to none. You're really only voiding the warranty on the exhaust itself.

Back in my minitruck days, I had a Ford Ranger, lowered, different tires/wheels, exhaust, interior, paint, etc. Including the engine, which was internally stock, we had pulled out, painted the block to match, polished oem aluminum bits, made new aluminum bits, rewired it, so the harnesses were hidden...it was obvious when you popped the hood that it didn't leave detroit that way. Truck came with a 60,000mi warranty (this was a 1988) and at 59,100miles a piston decided to liberate everything below the bottom ring, sending pieces thru the cylinder wall. I had it towed back to the dealer, and they replaced the block, cylinder head, and piston, all under warranty. They even called me when the engine was reassembled, so I could take it to have painted again.

Now that is a mod friendly dealership. I hate hearing these stories about service managers claiming voided warranty due to unrelated stuff.

Is everything ok with your car so far? No check engine lights or anything?

I recently had to get my gas tank check out because someone rear ended me. The dealer said if I had installed a different exhaust it would probably void the warranty of getting it check out for free..

It's only been on for about a week but no problems so far.

Just curious, what kind do you have?

Perrin non-resonated. Love the sound. Deep and no rasp or anything like that.

Well duh, As soon as you crack open that block you void the warranty simple as that. But you should realize that if there is a serious issue like the DI failure and what not, and they find a mod, you can be sure they will do their very best to void the warranty and blame it on that part to get out of working on the car and losing profit. Several members of the forum have had similar issues. They even go so far as to search the user up on the internet for track use and hard running as was seen before. The bottom line is you just have to be careful and if they do try to deny you because of the mod you keep fighting them.

No it is not. Burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove that the fault was caused by your modification. That's explicitly stated in the law. Stop spreading BS.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...ty-intact.html

Your dealer is full of shit.

Not if "checking out" the fuel tank required touching the exhaust in any way.

It would not have voided the warranty on the tank of course, but it most definitely would have voided the 'checking it for free'; which, considering it was something they did after an accident, really had nothing to do with a warranty at all, but was rather a favor the dealer did for him. But, regardless, Subaru will not cover the labor costs to remove an aftermarket component; nor would a dealer care to take on that liability.

They are hung from the same damn hooks, you're completely making things up. Stop. This was uninformed advice from some peon at a dealership, not a lawyer, and not SOA. Show me where SOA says removing an aftermarket exhaust is a no-go instead of making ridiculous claims.

Granted, this was an accident. If it wasn't, aftermarket or not, he's golden. Any dealer who would put up resistance for removing an aftermarket exhaust is a clown, the procedure is identical or nearly so, and their mechanics aren't paint-by-numbers retards.

Again, for emphasis, from the FTC:
To everyone thinking of doing it:

If you don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything. Or preface it with a statement saying you're speculating. Or ask a question and research. There is never anything wrong with admitting you don't know. Giving bad advice is an awful, awful thing to do, though.

People on forums love to talk themselves into a corner without doing research. Be better than that. I deal with enough of the rumor mill and asinine anecdotes at work.

You wanna compare credentials?

Been out of the business a little while, but I've been a manufacturer and distributor of aftermarket components and member of SEMA for over 10 years. On 6 seperate occassions I've had to provide sworn affidavits regarding my components (shifters/linkages/bushing/etc) and the effect of those on other components within the vehicle specifically in regards to lawsuits arising from denied warranty claims. I've put more money into my vehicles in the past decade than most people put into their homes, but never had a warranty issue that couldn't be resolved amicably. Am I a lawyer? Fuck no. Am I just a little more qualified and experiened than you? Just a tad.

You can post all the stuff from the FTC and Magnuson-Moss Act regarding warranty on the affected part all you want. You won't find a thing in there about covering the removal of non-OEM components to get to them. I know. I've navigated that document upteen hundreds of times over a decade. You won't find it because it's not a protection provided under the act.

No manufacturer has ANY responsiblity to remove an aftermarket component to get to a failed one, regardless of the status of your warranty. PERIOD. That is not to say that they won't, just that they don't have to.

A good service guy will take a look, realize it's a clean install and just as easy to take your exhaust off as the OEM one, and do the work -- the hours he's getting paid by Subaru are all the same.
Or, he may take a look, see the BS jury-rigged job you've got going on under there, and say that, sorry, he's not taking it off. That's within his rights because the law doesn't say that he has to remove a non-OEM part to get to the good one. It only says that he has to replace the tank (if, indeed it was a warranty issue).

This is basic common sense. If the law extended so far as to protect the consumer even in regards to the removal and reinstallation of aftermarket components just to get to the warrantied ones, dealers could find themselves doing a MESS of work around other people's shitty installations. They cannot open themselves up to the liabilty of reinstalling your component in the same shitty manner it was installed when it came in, as they are now liable for it.

here is the way i see it. if you dont want to get hassled, DON'T MOD.

however, know that your warranty cannot be voided. i hate when people say that, they cannot take it and throw it out. they can simply deny your claim. as stated dozens of times, you put on a catback they can't deny a claim for a broken window switch...in the end dont let the dealership walk all over you. most of hte service guys, from my experience, are talking out their ass. they do not like an educated consumer, so dont be a smart ass. be respectful and most will work with you. having a good relationship doesn't hurt.

when i had my STI i was not stock by any means and went to the dealer multiple times without issue.

I'll just repost this even though it got one guy's panties in a wad last time, lol:

***DISCLAIMER: The subsequent material does not constitute legal advice or legal representation in any way, shape, or form. The material is provided for ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY, and was originally posted on an Internet community forum. The views expressed herein do not necessarily reflect the views of the owners, moderators, or administrators of the Internet forum. No portion of the subsequent material may be reproduced, retransmitted, copied, posted, printed, downloaded, or linked without express written consent from a site administrator.


There is a great deal of confusion regarding vehicle modifications and manufacturer warranties on the Internet. What follows are some simplistic clarifications to help consumers navigate the murky waters of vehicle modifications and warranties.


Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act: This act provides a host of benefits for common consumers, and some protections for automotive enthusiasts as well. The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act may be viewed as a federal "lemon law" (California's state lemon law is the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act). Lemon laws serve the basic function of protecting the consumer from vehicle defects and improper warranty denial or abuse.


Magnusson-Moss provides that before a manufacturer can deny warranty coverage as a result of a vehicle modification (e.g., aftermarket exhaust or wheels), the manufacturer must provide proof or evidence that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to a warranty concern or issue. [*Please check your owner's manual for the extent and duration of all vehicle warranties before attempting to assert protections provided by Magnusson-Moss.]

For example, if you have an aftermarket exhaust, and you take your car to the dealership to service a transmission issue, the manufacturer must demonstrate a causal link between your aftermarket exhaust and the transmission issue in order to deny warranty coverage that would have addressed the transmission issue.


In the event that an aftermarket part or component is found to have caused or contributed to a warranty issue, then the warranty for that specific manufacturer part is no longer valid, the warranty for the rest of the vehicle still remains in effect. For example, a manufacturer cannot void your powertrain (engine/transmission) warranty because you installed an aftermarket stereo head unit and amplifier in your car, and your factory speakers are now blown and no longer functional. Only the portion of the manufacturer's warranty for the vehicle's factory (original) sound system is affected. Your powertrain warranty remains intact despite the fact you modified the interior of your car, damaged the factory speakers, and no longer have warranty coverage for your factory/original sound system.


Real World Implications: Despite the protections provided by Magnusson-Moss, many automotive dealerships (which are independently owned and operated) will attempt to void vehicle warranties (or refuse service under warranty) because of aftermarket parts or modifications because they know that many people are not aware of their rights, will not go through the trouble of fighting the dealership and/or manufacturer, or do not want to wait to have vehicle service performed at a later date. *Remember that your vehicle warranties are through the manufacturer, and that the dealership is compensated by the manufacturer for warranty service when the service is approved by the manufacturer or its service divisions.


Preventative Solutions/Tips:

1) Try to have your vehicle serviced at a dealership that is fair and reasonable with respect to vehicle modifications. Inquire as to the dealership's stance regarding modifications before going in for service with aftermarket parts installed. Some dealerships are owned by enthusiasts and they appreciate the modifications performed by owners, and other dealerships don't want to deal with the potential liability or headaches that come with servicing modified vehicles under warranty. There are many dealerships that take no issue with modifications such as air intakes, cat-back exhausts, lowering springs, and aftermarket wheels, but draw the line at more involved modifications such as forced induction or aftermarket tunes. Conversely, there are dealerships that will take issue with minor modifications such as an aftermarket air filter or an axle-back exhaust.


2) Certain manufacturers provide branded performance parts such as intakes and lowering springs from in-house racing developers or third party affiliates such as TRD or STi. Performance upgrades from these sources are often backed with factory warranties so long as they are installed by a dealer. This is one potential way to avoid warranty hassles, but the trade-off is that these upgrade parts are limited in application and can be rather expensive.


3) Some dealerships will even install aftermarket (not from TRD or STi) parts for you, but be aware that if something goes wrong, and a warranty issue arises, all bets are off regarding your treatment by the dealership. If possible, get a written representation from the dealership that installed the aftermarket parts that you will be covered in the event of a subsequent warranty issue.


Editor's note: Organizations such as SEMA can provide you with more in-depth information and additional resources regarding the aftermarket industry and aftermarket parts.

Just to be clear, I am not a lawyer and no I wont stay at a Holiday Inn.

Quote,
But, if you ever wondered if your CAI, Exhaust, LED's, UniChip, etc will void your warranty the simple answer is no.......UNLESS the manufacture can prove the aftermarket part caused the failure.

Hahaha not true! I work for Toyota and that is simply not true. Now of course depending on circumstances. If a manufacturer tells ya it isn't covered then it's your responsiblity to prove otherwise. So be careful as to what you say!
Ie: I just had my tranny grenade on my GTR. The only reason Nissan warrantied the tranny was because it was a known problem on early 09's, had my GTR been a later production 09 Nissan said straight out that it would not have been covered! ($$32,222.19)

Torsten
Service Advisor

And I'm gonna reply again, and say that all this "Magnuson-Moss to the rescue" is a lie spread by aftermarket. The law only applies to aftermarket parts done to OEM specifications. That is your Fram oil filters, walmart windshield wipers etc.
Not your header-back, not your blower, not your reflash.

Once you put something on your car that is not to OEM spec, you're setting yourself up for warranty claim denial (for any part failure downstream of the modded part). It won't happen to everyone, it won't happen every time. But it does happen to enough people, and they usually end-up holding the bag.

Just remember that vendors here are not your friends, they are here to make money off you.

I am a trial attorney. Listen to what Dezoris and SigmaHyperion said. I "thanked" all the posts I agree with. People need to think through how the MM Act can be brought into play. Printing up a copy of it and bringing to the dealer won't have magical effects.

I just had warranty work done for an faulty abd sensor that out my BRZ into limp mode. I have no mods. But say the dealership, for whatever reason denied my warranty repair for an intake. I cite the MM Act. They laugh. I write to Subaru. No response.

So at this point there are no magical forces that will make Subaru or the dealership meet their burden of proof. Starting a lawsuit is the only option. No experienced trial lawyer is going to take on the case without a retainer. There is ALWAYS risk taking any matter to trial where a total stranger (judge) or strangers (jury) who may have little to no experience with cars/ the MMA/modding will make the decision. You may or may not recoup attorney costs. Even if you are awarded attorney costs, it will likely be "reasonable costs" and not the amount you actually paid your lawyer.

This isn't even getting to the expert witness you'll likely need to tell the court that the modification wasn't related to the warranty claim. "But they'll have the burden of proof!" Once the dealer serves up an affidavit from one of its techs blankly saying that the mid is related, BAM, a judge can say burden is met. You'll have to rebut that with an expert witness.