Have you made your purchase decision?
 

Given how hard it will be to find this car (possibly purchasing from dealers far away) and not having much time to make a decision, what would you do? All assuming the cost is within your range:

1. Purchase after just looking\touching\sitting in the car.
2. Purchase after DEALER takes you around for a test drive.
3. Purchase only after YOU test drive.
4. Purchase decision already made.

#1 & #3 for me. I gotta do every little things before actually buying it. Even thou it looks good as is, THAT doesn't mean anything. Gotta look around again, touch exterior & interior, sit to feel comfy, and test drive to make sure I like em... before buying it

#3 for me (which I consider implies #1)

I looked/touched/sat in the car and it felt cheap.
Replace my actual car with it? No. Build a track car? Yes.
I think we won't see any new Honda S2000, Mazda RX-7 or Nissan Silvia that soon, so I may end up getting it later.
So get a 30.000 € daily driver? No. I'll wait longer and get a 60.000 € Porsche Cayman.

Neither. I'm going to continue pestering Toyota, daily, until they release a Toyota version along side the Scion and Subaru. If not, I'll stick with my Celica until Toyota releases a sports/performance car under their brand name and not an off-shoot. Sorry, my brand loyalty is too strong. Can't do the brother/sister/partner company, for a number of reasons.

My purchase decision will be dependent upon price.

In before someone tells you Scion is Toyota. :)

My decision includes most of the above and most importantly price. not just MSRP but what the final OTD price can be negotiated at.

As I said they're a brother/sister company, well more of a child company. They do not have the same operation as Toyota or vision. (Pure pricing garbage with one model and they go cheap/affordable instead of quality at slight extra cost which is huge to me.) I will not argue that they are the same family, but they are different.

Edit: Actually, by your logic, you're saying Subaru is Toyota because Toyota owns majority shares in Fuji Heavy Industries, which owns Subaru.

Done deal.

+1. So for folks who want it to be a toyota, i am sure you can re-badge it (undo what toyota is doing in Japan before they ship it stateside). Officially i am sure the manufacturer will be listed as toyota motor corp.
I think you can even take it to a toyota dealer for Oil change\regular maintenance and they might not say no. In most cases the scion and toyota delalers share the same building\lot, atleast the one i am talking to does.

In general they do not have the same operation\vision, but for the FR-S they do.

Not good enough for me, I want a GT 86 equivalent, not a G 86 equivalent. Don't say Subaru, the styling differences and suspension differences I do not want.

How do you feel about the Lexus SC300/400?

Not really... Toyota isn't the largest shareholder of Scion. They are Scion. Subaru is a separate, outside company of which Toyota owns a majority of shares.

Do me a favor. Look up Toyota Zelas/ Toyota Corolla Rumion/Toyota Ist/Toyota IQ/Toyota 86. All of these cars is branded a Toyota in different parts of the world but what is all of them called in NA? Scions. So the whole vision crap is absurd.

You mean the Toyota Soarer made Lexus for N.A.? I'd rather they have kept it a Toyota as well. Love actual names vs letters/numbers. However in Lexus' case they keep quality in mind and toss in some more luxury at even more cost, don't really care for the extra luxury but at least they are not cheaping out on things and forcing you into one trim.

In that case though I'd have to opt for a Supra. A) It's a Toyota (brand loyalty again) B) Same engine, different purpose. (Depending on year of Soarer)

In my case, I'm actually buying it from a Toyota dealer. They sell Scion on the same floor under a banner that says (and I'm paraphrasing) "Yo, we have these cars over here too".

That said, I respect Taber_CRD's opinion on it. I wish it said Toyota as well. I'm just not hung up on the badge thing as much because it seems to be saving me money and avoiding things I really don't care about in the car (remember I'm the guy that wants manual windows).

Even better I wish it had a "Ferrari by Toyota" badge on it.

going off topic~ c'mon, at least make first page on-topic lol

Sorry about that, I'm not helping by responding to the counters of my opinion. I'll stop.

In before theyre all subarus anyway.:thumbup:

You should really add "if the price is right" to your poll.

Yes, this all given that the price is right (dont want to open that can of worms). That is specified in the post below the poll.

+1 :thumbsup:

Guess you don't know business world that well. Majority share doesn't mean much unless you own 51% of the company and can single handly make decisions. TMC can't do that with FHI.

It's not supposed to have the same vision, it's geared towards a completely different target audience, thus the reason for pure pricing and the reason they are built with less luxury items in them.

Scion is no less a Toyota product than Lexus is. Would you say they are cheap because they are not a Toyota product as well? You need to look at Toyota's business model and reason for having the Scion name before saying something so dumb.

Guess you don't know business world that well. Owning 51% of the company in no way means that you can "single handly make the business decisions" for the company unless you're part of hollywood movies like Mr. Deeds.

Most companies require 2/3 majority vote of shareholders for major decisions. In most states it's a legal requirement, and even where it isn't there are still laws to protect the minority shareholders and if the decisions don't make sense for the business they can sue the majority shareholder's pants off.

Exactly, especially in publicly traded companies the "majority shareholder" tends to own 10% of the company or less. Majority shareholder also tends to mean the shareholder who controls the most shares, not the shareholder who controls 51% of the company.

In the case of FHI, it does look like Toyota is the majority shareholder:

http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/ir/share_info/share.html

Nice to see others are waiting on an honest test drive before making a decision.

Non-refundable deposits are ridiculous.

Though suspension tuning can easily be adjusted with the aftermarket products that will soon be available, I think this is a very interest comparison that has been basically overlooked. Other than a couple journos who mentioned different spring/damper rates and "The BRZ pushes more" -- we really don't know how the two compare until we drive them.

Test drive is essential. I know how I want the car to feel and drive, but I need to confirm for myself and not vicariously through reviews.

Also with small cars like this, fitting comfortably is always a concern. If I can't find a comfortable seating position during the test drive, that's a deal breaker.

Toyota is not the majority shareholder. They are the LARGEST shareholder. Please look up the definitions.


http://financial-dictionary.thefreed...ty+Stockholder


Anyways thanks. You proved my point. Toyota owns 16.7% which isn't anywhere close to 51% and much less than the 2/3rd needed to make decisions.

Also depends how the companies charter is setup whether it requires 51% majority or a "supermajority."



http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/...#axzz1p8lH9Uaj


So please don't come in here and act like every company needs a supermajority cause they don't. Do some? Yes. But you would require at least 51% (at the minimum) or even more strict a supermajority which can be anywhere from (2/3rds) up to 90% depending on the company's charter.

A lot of it also has to do with class of shares, voting rights, how the company ownership is structured (preferred shares), etc. Also foreign corporations have a whole other set of laws. It's not as simple as Toyota only owns 17% therefore they don't have the ability to make decisions for the company.

Anyway, we probably shouldn't get sidetracked into a discussion about financial laws and definitions, it's kind of a tangent to the point of the thread.

Refundable deposit has been down since last September, but I'll purchase it only after I drive it.

I was just refuting Saber_TRD and your statement that TMC has majority share of FHI/Subaru. Which is incorrect. They are the largest single shareholder. But that does not equate to majority ownership. That is all.

Also I never said that Toyota doesn't make decisions involving FHI. Just that they don't have majority decision making capacity. There are 83% other votes out there. 83>17. They have some say, but not the only say.

This is ft86club, we are meant to go off topic. FT= forgot topic.

Sorry - I'm new here, still figuring my way around :happy0180:

FHI is a conglomerate that provides products in the automotive, industrial power, and aerospace industries. What's the relevance of debating Toyota's ownership within the entire FHI conglomerate as a whole? Do we care how much say they have in industrial power or aerospace? What if automotive consitutes only 15% of FHI activities? I'm not saying Toyota is in charge of Subaru but we'd have to drill down and debate on that level because the other industries are irrelevent (to me).

The BRZ is a small niche under the Subaru subcategory under the automotive subcategory under the entire FHI conglomerate. Under the BRZ niche Toyota probably had a significantly larger say than it does in FHI as a whole.

In time you'll learn that some of the people here with the largest post counts also have the largest egos to satiate and don't really know as much as they would like to pretend they do.

There is absolutely no reason to apologize for having good manners and trying to get a thread back on topic.

It's all but sure that there will be many more FR-S units in the US than the BRZ. I think there will be a good chance to find local availability.