Drift-Office : HKS EL Header Tuned!
 

So having done both the BORLA UEL and a T1R EL setup earlier, one of the community members came up with a HKS EQUAL LENGTH header for a tune.

His current setup :

Takeda Intake
HKS Equal Length Header
Motive Front Pipe
Perrin 2.5 Inch Overpipe and Exhaust

Jumping straight to the results, here are his 3rd & 4th gear pulls respectively, each sampled before and after the tune...

Attachment 43943

Attachment 43944

Attachment 43945

Not bad ~ a few HP shy of the magical 200WHP, but there were a two factors that had contributed to that ~ HEAT and secondly, MAF turbulence caused by the intake. In the many, many FRS / BRZ setups that have come and gone thru my facility, I have noticed that you would be hard pressed to get a better intake than the stock. Granted that it doesn't look bling enough for most, it really does well when it comes down to it, especially if you're planning to tune it down the road.

That said, I'd like to think that we did a pretty good job here given the minor complications and yielded highly positive results.

So here's what a 100% stock setup vs this HKS setup looks like...

Attachment 43949

And for those who are undeniably going to ask...what does this look like against the BORLA setup? You decide...

Attachment 43950
Ref: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37225

Video to come later tonight for those interested in what an EL setup sounds like with a Perrin exhaust...

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Nice pulls! Thanks for the comparison

Interesting results!
It would be even better to see them back to back, identical setups... But it's good at least they are both on your dyno.

What do you think? Very close when actually on the same car, same intake, same temps? Small edge to the HKS?

One had a stock, the latter has a Takeda intake which did nothing but hurt the possibilities IMHO. Both were temp corrected when I used the applicable correction factor but it's pretty apparent that ELs typically make more power than UELs. But I suppose some would prefer the UELs since it might be more acoustically pleasing to their ears. :)

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

I wonder how much turbulence the perrin CAI and inlet tube creates vs the takeda and stock intakes...

I've got a pending customer with one of those, and there's a random misfire code going on right now... They'll be waiting on an exhaust before tuning real soon.

As far as their silicone intakes go, I did a Canadian customer with one of those... not much good to say unfortunately. :(


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Interesting. I guess it's a good thing I kept the stock air box and snorkel! Might have to change back eventually.

This makes me wonder how I'll do with the JDL UEL + the full Nameless 3" exhaust, and Perrin CAI with inlet hose. Hoping for the best.

Waiting on videos!!

Hey bob the hks header that you tune was it the catted version?

Negative! Let me get a pic up for you...

Attachment 44005

I do have another CATTED header / setup coming my way from Asia, not sure how well that's going to be either, but stay tuned as always! :)

P.S. Howare you guys doing anyway? Hit me up via PM! :)

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Your wish is my command... :)


http://youtu.be/y0YKn5xptAE

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

93 octane?

Do you think it could make 210whp on an e85 tune?

Nice work man and thanks for posting :thumbsup:

It's interesting to see the HKSEL makes noticeably more power on either side of the low point of the dip than the borla, and the advantage keeps growing as the rpm's climb. Looks like the primaries on the borla are just too small.

This was on pump gas yes?

Damn, so an extra 20rwhp from the Headers? That sounds reassuring(for me). I haven't dynoed mine yet, still waiting to get my tune sorted out.

~172hp @ STOCK, is that about right? I'm not sure on the drivetrain power loss for RWD's..

4-2-1 designs offer a nice balance of gains.

Bob, do you have a measurement of the primary pipe diameter?

Hmmm another well designed EL header makes very good power...pay attention people

In agreement about the 4-2-1 vs the 4-1s. I unfortunately didn't get a chance to measure the primaries, perhaps it's on the HKS site somewhere? Sorry!

That was 172WHP after the header was installed but before a tune. Base numbers are about 163 - 165WHP on a 6MT.

Yep, pump gas on 92 Octane!

Under the right conditions, I don't see why that's not possible, but that's just an assumption here... :)


Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Seeing those gains I kinda wish I didn't get the borla headers

glad to see that rediculous price tag has some merit

I posted some days ago the results of that very same header combined with HKS metalic catted front pipe , and HKS Highpower Spec L muffler, The tune was a ECU teck Stage 2 performed by SCREEN (im in Japan), they basicaly used the same tune as their racing 86 as my setup was pretty close. Results are just fantastic, it makes a sound of outerspace, and pulls like a rhino till the red line ! the dip is totally neutralised and even though there is still a minor drop at that time, you still get more Tqs than before ... ! Yes you pay the price, but you see the results.

here is a link to it, whould love to have your feedback and thoughts on that guys from Drift-Office ;)

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41108

How much did ur tune run you?

Are we to assume that the Borla car had the same cat-less Motive/Perrin exhaust as the HKS EL car?

Thank you - yes. Cat-less for both setups! :)


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Damn, thats pretty good..

165 > 195rwhp

So around 30rwhp gain from a full EL exhaust system!

So you're saying that all else being equal, the HKS EL produces 11whp and 6wtq more than the Borla UEL? I find that very hard to believe but thanks anyway.

I'm curious - why is that hard to believe? And UELs are supposed to make more rumble AND power? :) The prototype T1R setup is an EL too, and that was 198WHP...

I can only tell you what both cars in the same environment did with the same calibration...

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

The numbers don't add up, but they never do with the 86 triplets. I keep reading the following BS:

Header = +10whp
header-back = +15whp
ECUTek Tune = +15whp
Intake = +10whp

But in reality all those mods typically equal +30whp and you're telling me that a 4-2-1 HKS EL is worth +20whp by itself? That's my issue with these numbers. No offense meant.

None taken, I'm not the guy who built it. I only work the calibration to get the best gains I can get and those are the results of our work! :) Have you seen our 100% stock calibrations? I get 18+WHP with no mods other than our Stage 1 NA tune...

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

hmmm serious? I was having my doubt's about this tune from a local garage here. +20hp gain from just a tune..
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...14326075_n.jpg
FB Linky here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=631369983541497

If I'm able to quantify 18WHP on 92 octane, I don't see why 20 isn't possible on a higher octane that you guys generally use right? :) I will note that his baseline is about 10 WHP higher though, so even @ 180, that's not an uncommon number now, on any dyno.

My 2 cents!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

I think many parts manufacturers and companies like to tack on +hp numbers with their products, but I think the most important thing here is the tuning/calibration. What I get from this thread is that the +hp ceiling is definitely higher for the EL HKS header than the UEL Borla header. The tune is the key to a lot of the power gained, but a good and well designed product allows for a higher potential of power to be achieved.

I see. Those are very impressive results but I won't waste any more of your time because I wouldn't use a tuner so far away that I couldn't easily drive to his shop to sort out any potential issues.

Perhaps you could indulge me a tuning question if you're feeling generous. How much higher is the max EGT for your tune vs oem after leaning out the 6500-7400rpm range? I can't quite understand why Toyobaru would dump so much fuel there if not to keep EGT in check for long term engine health. TIA.

Understood - for the most part, you have Tony @FA20Club for your needs in the East Coast. I'm sure he's more than capable of taking care of your needs remotely if need be. This isn't a waste of my time - I choose to be here to answer questions and help out - no one's pointing a gun to my head. :)

I'll have to refer to the logs on that one, but Subaru has always been a proponent of keeping everything rich, force inducted or not simply because they have to offer a x year x mile warranty. With the FA20 being a high compression motor, I'm sure their tuning strategy isn't any different for that same reason.

My 2 cents on that last...


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Hey Bob, what's your R&R rate on a set of headers? I was thinking of getting a tune from you, but I think I would also probably want headers right away and it would be nice to have a stock dyno and then headers and tune.

From the pictures I've seen of the borla headers I wouldn't be surprised if a port and polish with a cat delete netted more power.... They are simply hideous and poorly welded. I wouldn't pay $200 for the borla headers.

Also HP from bolt ons don't stack much if at all. Especially the header back stuff and intake stuff. Most intakes from what the tuners say make little to no power after you tune them vs stock.

So does this mean with stock intake, it will produce more power?

I'm willing to be less disruption in flow would mean better results generally. :)

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

I would agree that the indication here is that the HKS EL with Perrin OP, Motive front, Perrin cat-back, aFe intake and Drift-Office tune does produce more power than a Borla UEL with unknown cat-less exhaust and intake with a Drift-Office tune.

I forgot his name but there's another guy here with a Borla UEL, header-back exhaust and a different tune making 200.5whp on pump gas. This is why I dislike comparing dyno results but that's usually all we have to go by.


Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure talking to you.

:bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll: