vs Toyota Celica GT-S (2000-2005)
 

http://www.thesupercars.org/wp-conte...ota-celica.jpg

http://images03.olx.com/ui/1/40/05/1573505_1.jpg
180 horsepower
2500 lbs
30 mpg hwy

Can't believe there's no thread for this yet, but now I'm lookin' for one. They run only about $10k for a 2005 model so they seem pretty budget-friendly.

Any current or previous owners have any input?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ghlight=celica

thanks for the link. no need for the thread now!

I've been comparing these cars from the get go. I used to own one back in 2004. Great little car. Lacking in power but a great daily driver.

My guess is that the FR-S will be exactly equal to the 7th gen Celica GT-S. (2zz)

Power to weight ratios are almost dead on, mpg, dimensions etc.

The FR-S/BRZ is rwd while the Celica is fwd. That's about the only difference.

The FR-S really is the new Celica (as far as the specs go)

Excellent performance benchmark... when built properly by Lotus.

I have a strong feeling this car will be as quick as the FRS for two reasons

1. FWD has less drivetrain loss

2. 250 lbs difference for 20 hp put the Celica GTS at a slightly inferior P2W ratio.(13.75lbs vs 13.88lbs)


Handling wise I think it will be about the same. It doesn't look like a huge upgrade to me for Celica GTS owners other than having RWD.

Hopefully the FR-S/BRZ won't end up like the 7th gen. Celica...

yeah i wish my car came in AWD and turbo like the 6th gen

How did you find torque in your GTS, nevermind FWD torque oversteer?

Also, which of the two do you think creates the chassis and balance: heritage or engineering?

^U trollin? How do wheels turn?

Lightweight/RWD balance is an idea; engineering is executed following guidelines birthed off of that idea. Without guidelines influenced by heritage, nothing would have been engineered.

:lol: FWD torque (~120?) oversteer doesnt exist.

The mules are subaru, the parts are subaru, the builders are subaru... yet it couldnt have happened without toyota, but its not because of their engineers.

Why'd you get rid of your Celica GT-S? and your MR-S?

if you can make the tires chatter a bit at 65mph going into 3rd, with 120tq, then 120 tq is enough :D

Sorry but the wrog wheels are chattering there.

ahahah yeah i cant wait till i switch to a rwd platform :D

As a current owner of an 03 6 speed celica gts I can honestly say it has been the greatest car I've owned (granted my first car was an auto celica gt :D). Its been great on gas for the performance, and I never really had any problems except for screeching belts every 20k miles or so and the passenger door actuator going bad. The old girl is getting old though and I honestly cant wait for the FRS/BRZ. I have to see it in person before I buy, but it seems to be a really good replacement for the celica. I know it's not part of the celica lineage and is more related to the AE86, but the toyota sports car heritage is definitely there. Also I do see some similarities to the 7th gen celica in the layout of the interior like the layout of the tach/speedo (reversed in celica though), and button locations around the shifter (celica window switches/FRS TCS button).

On a side note though, the 180 listed hp was based on the old sae power ratings, so the power difference between the celica and FRS will most likely be more. Does anyone know of a way of converting the old horsepower ratings to the new ratings?

i got 161 whp on my first dyno so its 10whp off the 86's 171 whp

i saw 151-165whp depending on dyno, engine, age, and a few other factors, im running at 18x whp atm , 19x with hydra stand alone :D

my celica is getting old too made in 1999 lol she runs strong i hit that fuel cut off every day, been doing it for a while now too

i just hope the FA20 is as reliable as my 2zz-ge is

things ive replaced on my celica
fuel filter (clogged)
spark plugs (maintenance, not because the part failed)
vacuum lines (maintenance, not because the part failed)
collant lines (maintenance, not because the part failed)

things that need to be replaced
shocks (i treat my tires like they deserve to die, inherently the suspension takes a toll)

things ive added
cold air
ported trial headers
resonator delete
trd exhaust
high flow cat
trd jdm clutch
hydra ems

Say what you want but I owned the car before and after it had LSD and it was able to turn in noticeably more holding a tighter line after LSD.
^Restating the obvious and agrees with what I originally said...
Edit: You missed my point then I think I missed your point but I see what you're trying to debate now. Yes the chassis and balance had to be engineered primarily by Subaru but chassis and balance has always been a key theme in Toyota RWD sports car developments (the first and perhaps only FR boxer car was the Toyota 800, NOT a Subaru) whereas power/hi-tech has been Subaru's forte. This is how heritage (who's heritage?) could have paved the way for this car to exist.

Also, engineering is grunt work that can [generally] be outsourced provided the people in charge provide clear design objectives and the grunts are competent. My livelihood has been adversely affected by outsourcing but I'm still at it working with colleague engineers overseas. In this case, Toyota outsourced to Subaru. ;)

I kept my Celica for almost a year after I got my MR-S. I realized it was unwise to have 2 depreciating assets that were too similar so I sold the higher mileage Celica (getting laid-off influenced that) and wanted to keep the 2-seater since I was single with no need for cargo space.

Then went through a couple MkII MR2s while owning the MR-S. Found myself in the same depreciating asset/similar cars predicament so I chose the car with more exotic styling, fixed roof, more weight (for safety), and frunk+trunk and sold the MR-S. Those were all the Toyotas I've owned. Then wanted to try something different (G35). The low-end torque was alright but within a year I realized I missed wringing out those small 4-banger agile Toyotas.

My dad has had Supras (Mk II, III, and IV), a '90s Toyota Pickup, Tacoma, 4Runner, mom drives a Prius, brother an SC400. Toyota runs deep in my family.

theres something about it that i love aswell, and i dont fully understand why i love it either :D but i do and will stay true :D

This made me lol. If you really think engineering is grunt work then you clearly know nothing about real engineering. Great engineers are the foundation of almost every company and you can always tell when a company chooses to outsource engineering work. They will have a crap product that is highly over priced. Also, Toyota did not outsource to Subaru, it was a co-op and as such I'm sure each individual company had equal inputs on how the car will be made. If you are curious as to what a real engineer does during his day I invite you to come to my work place and see my colleague and I work, as we are clearly the backbone of our companies productivity and quality.

^You're right, I was an exaggerating. :D In what areas of engineering do you work? Not all engineering is grunt work but some lower level stuff can be outsourced or executed by a 3rd party at least in areas I've worked (software development and testing) assuming there's competence. Any higher level engineering, usually in-house, is key. I was imagining something similar in engineering a car but if anyone has firsthand experience, please enlighten us!

they guy above you is right is was a co-op to make the car cheap for us, there is no way in hell this car with all the research and devotion would spit out a car in the us for under 25k for what we get

things subaru had that toyota needed

the engine layout
manufacturing plant - since the 86 has a shortened platform of the impreza, subaru already had a plant that could make the car with a few minor changes to the assembly line and wouldn't have to spend millions on a new assembly line and plant

things subaru needed that toyota had
MONEY