Stage 7 Complete!
 

Just thought I'd jump on the badwagon and let everyone know I just installed my shift knob and now my Stage 7 mods are complete.


Figure I'll get to FI around Stage 26.


Anyone else?

Haha I dislike when people use "stages" to describe the mods they've done to their cars as well.

Intake = stage 1? Intake + cat-back exhaust = stage 2? What if it's an axle-back? Stage 1.5? :iono:

Ba dum dum tssss��

Since when do mods go in order?

If at any common sense is post to be used in modding, if your going to add power then upgrade the brakes. Its annoying to see VW running more boost and using stock brakes...and then they wonder why their torque steer wrapped them around the tree.

My thoughts exactly.... who determines the appropriate arbitrary number?

How can Stage 1 be a catback and drop in but then also be a turbo kit.


As for the brake argument. I'm a proponent of upgrading brakes, don't get me wrong, but I've never understood the point of view that upgrading power also needs to mean upgrading brakes...

I mean, in my mind, let's say I go with the AVO turbo. A solid power increase. But it's a DD, I'd like to track it but I don't have any experience and, at the moment, time. So I may accelerate faster when I feel 'frisky' but I haven't added any significant weight to the car and I've not increased my top speed nor am I spending any time near the current top speed. I'd like to also upgrade my brakes but for the purposes of tracking my car NOT because at 250whp my current brakes are all of the sudden made of paper mache.

You're still accelerating faster, if you had a 0-60 time of 6.0 secs and then you added power and its at 5.0 secs then you have increased the power quite a lot in a small car, even a small increase of 50 WHP is a lot is a "light" weight car like this. Stock brakes won't be as adequate with increased power, even if your not going to track your car. Not saying anyone has to go with a full brake kit and etc, but upgrades pads and tires can go a long way.


Also if i'm doing the same sort of autocrossing and i'm getting to the corner faster then i did stock, the brakes will take more of a beating, so they should be upgraded.

Valid point

You should upgrade the brakes if you're driving significantly faster, you've made it significantly heavier, or you're braking much more often (spending time tracking your car where brake fade is likely). It doesn't matter how fast you got to 60, if you're not braking more frequently and the car is relatively the same weight it's not a change to braking conditions.

I'm working on stage left right now, just a few more bolts and crush washers needed

Three drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff.

Ba dum dum tssss.

Stickers are the key to moving up stages quickly. You're all doing it wrong.

Why? Do you floor the gas pedal with the car in gear every time you are braking? How does power have anything to do with braking performance?

When you've pushed the clutch in and you're braking, it doesn't matter if your engine has 50 horsepower or 500 horsepower, the engine is doing anything.

Sure, if you're racing, you will have your brakes fade sooner simply because more power means that you're reaching higher speeds before the onset of braking, but that's a situation that's only going to happen on a track.

Grippier tires, if anything, are going to do a whole lot more for braking performance in street driving than any big brake upgrades. Stock brakes are capable of locking up the stock tires, you think that bigger brakes could somehow do anything better than that? Only reason for them is that they'll laste longer before fading due to heat, and that's a track problem.

Shit. I knew I was missing something!
Vendors: Please acquire me a sticker group buy. :burnrubber:

Im stage TFA....Total Fucking Awesomeness!

To each their own, but I fail to see the argument too. It all depends on driving habits. LOTS of people just get a FI kit, bolt in on and go. No plans to ever hit a track the car, no plans to get into dangerous speeds, nothing at all.

You can stay off boost as long as you want modulating your pedal. You can go on spirited runs in a completely empty street and never need to even brake hard. Its not realistic that it is ABSOLUTELY necessary to upgrade brakes when getting a basic FI kit. Whomever spends their time at the road speed limits before and after turbo kit, will need the same brakes they had before.

As a disclaimer, I upgraded my tires and brakes along with a stage 2 + Turbo Kit because I do plan to race my car.

Its a simple concept if an object moves faster then it needs to stop faster as well. No matter if your tracking or not, you made that improvement in power for a reason, i assume most of you will be pushing the limits more and more then in stock.

Or are people just bolting turbos for show? :bellyroll:

Again see in red. Also, the stock brakes are OK to stop in the street on several spirited runs, stop and go stop and go. Its not like they are garbage. You are posting from a perspective of someone who drives aggressively and/or tracks the car.

You'd be amazed to find out the majority of people are not like us. :thumbsup:

Hey, I am in your camp in the sense that it is a great upgrade and i highly recommend upgrading them. Where I disagree is in the notion that its absolutely necessary. It just really depends on each person and their driving style.

I see what you mean, but personally i always like to play it safe.


But we're pretty lucky the twins have such good brakes. Not so much on non sport/performance cars that receive increased power.

You realize that unless you're flooring the accelerator pedal while braking, that horsepower has absolutely nothing to do with the brakes, right?

The brakes aren't working against the force of your car's horsepower.

Let me rephrase it like this.

Lets say you're going full throttle down the same block everyday, you go with FI and are running some extra ponnies. When you reach the end of the block you'll clearly be going faster then stock, thus you'll need to apply more braking force to slow down and turn. People are repetitive, they forget they are running more power and use more braking force when they need to slow down, in a lot of cases brakes won't be as good and will just cause an accident.

Maybe you don't HAVE to upgrade brakes on every car but for MYSELF i always do so. Did so on the I30, and i'll do so on the FRS if i go down the FI route.

Stages determine more than anything else how much money some one spent on a build and is not determined by an owner but, assigned by tuners and speed shops to sell products IMHO.

I've never run out of stock brakes, on any car, on the street or at an AutoX. "Big" brakes just improve modulation, heat storage, and dissipation. Big brakes don't even stop you any faster, your tires are the main ingredient for that.



In other words: they work the same as stock brakes 99% of the time, except they hold up under the pressure of minutes and hours of hard braking with sticky tires.

I like the turbo Subaru world of stages of modifications. Stage 1 = tune, stage 2 = stage 1 + downpipe (req'd)/intake (opt)/exhaust (opt), stage 3 = upgraded turbo + all those other bits from stage 1 and 2.

Or the Supra Turbo world of non-BPU (aka stock) and BPU cars.

This x100000

Dem00n, I hope I never see you in person, because you must drive like a total reckless maniac. The stock brakes are more than good enough to handle anything you can do on the streets.

If we're talking about required upgrades, and upgrade precedence to remain safe at all speeds and driving styles,

1. Tires
2. Brakes
3. Suspension (Afterall, if you're going so fast that your brakes need to be upgraded, you might overwhelm the capability of stock suspension to handle the power and braking forces.
3. Power

P.S. I'm on stage 3. Removed dealer license plate frame, detailed car, and installed a sound tube plug.:D

im on stage 863.6................ header oh yea

For factory turbo it's usually just in reference to engine mods:

Stage 1 - ECU only, ECU and Filter, ECU+ filter + Catback
Stage 2 - Adds Full exhaust maybe add Intercooler/ Full intake
Stage 3- Add bigger turbo, injectors, fuel pump

But there's no real "stages" just typically the way thing are grouped

Stage 1 often means almost no mechanical work
Stage 2 goes a little deeper and starts messing with emissions
Stage 3 require significant bolting on

Later stages get into pull apart engine and building up

We have slightly better brakes ( the rears) than a new wrx and are #400 lighter so maybe fluid and pads unless your tracking hard....


I have wheels tires brake fluid .....headers and pads are next yr

Just a marketing tool for tuner shops.

Kinda reminds me of a Saturn rocket.